gratification enjoyed while young and full of energy vs that enjoyed as a 50+yr old with less energy, wrinkles, and other biological problems
It’s very true if you plan to stay single and have no kid. What’s the point of working hard all your life and when you die, you can’t bring the money with you? If I were a single guy, I would do like what this Dr. Meru does…..make minimum debt payments, work 1-2 days/week, no need to deal with stress by building a practice.... and just enjoy life. When I die, the government and my creditors can’t do anything about my debt.
When your kids come of age and decide a career in Dentistry (I’m assuming they are about a decade from now - and the cost of education would probably at least cost over $700-800k then for most schools, probably over $1M with residency)... would you talk them out of it? Or let them do it? They will certainly have to work harder than you do now to enjoy the same lifestyle you do now.
This is why I have to continue to work hard now to make sure that the total educational cost of $700k-1mil will neither be an issue for me nor for my kids. If my wife and I had no kid, we could easily retire right now and just live on the income that we earn from our rental properties.
I completely agree with you.
I don’t think it will be very difficult or competitive for your kids to get into dental school in 10 years or so. I have a theory that as more schools open and the tuition reaches ridiculously new heights, the competition to get in will be dampened. The most competitive schools will be the cheapest schools, but there will be a plenty of schools that will happily take your kids money (through Uncle Sam or your savings).
I’m in much late 30’s and don’t have kids. I grew up with 8 siblings, and I have 20-30 first uncles and aunts on each side of my parents. I learned first hand the effects children had on my parents and relatives, financially. I’m not saying I don’t want to have kids, but I strongly believe that the most important fulfillment and help in life should go towards to self. I have seen many professional parents who worked so hard to have kids and raise them, just to see them fall very short of their expectations when kids left the nest.
I hope your prediction is correct. But for right now… despite the rise in tuition and opening of new schools, it’s much harder to get into dental schools now than when I applied years ago. The kids are so smart nowadays. I took AB Calculus when I was a senior in HS. My niece is only a 9th grader and she is taking Pre-Calculus. I got accepted to several dental schools with the undergrad of GPA of only 3.4 (3.5 or 3.6 science GPA). NYU dental school accepted me even when my DAT score hadn't been available yet (I took the exam very late). I don’t think any dental school will accept the student with a low GPA like mine. Luckily, I went to a P/F dental school, which later helped me I get accepted to an ortho program.
My position on being a successful dentist is for the parent to focus more on saving as much as the can for their kids (in the millions of $$ as possible), so the kids at least have a safety net if their chosen plans don’t work out, just in case they end up chosing different path of career or delaying their parents intended plans.
No, you are not selfish. My wife and I are actually doing all these for ourselves…for our own happiness. Just like our parents, who had worked hard to give us the bright future in America, we can only be happy when we see our children grow up to be more successful than we are. Our kids are like a part of our body, which needs to be well taken care of. Just like we don’t like to exercise (or eat vegetable) but we have to because love our own body and want to continue to be healthy as we get older.We're on kids now. Good. Nice change of topic. We all want our kids to be successful, but at what costs? I come from an environment in that if you wanted something ... you went out and got it or achieved it without financial help from your parents. I provided the pathway for my kids to succeed, but the choice is THEIRS on what they want to do with their life. Success is not measured in $$$$$$. Yes ... of course $$$$$ makes things easier, but not always better.
Neither of my children wanted to pursue dentistry/ortho. One is in business/finance/marketing and the other is interested in Psychology. I support both kids with their decisions especially seeing the large dental school debt these kids have and future practice debt.
I don't care about how successful others may have it. Again, success can be measured in many different ways.
Maybe I'm selfish, but you also have to think about YOURSELF. Delayed gratification only goes so far. I want to enjoy life's pleasures whether they be material objects or not ..... when I am able to enjoy them. Wait too long .... and you may regret that decision.
When you get into your 50's ... you'll realize that TIME is the most important asset to have. I've secured enough wealth to be able to comfortably work PT in my 50's. I am healthy and motivated enough to continue to work till I'm 70 ... if I want. The key is that I get to do WHAT I WANT NOW.
Well .... it's Thursday am. Going out to take my dog for a walk and then off to the range to practice hitting some golf shots.
I
70 is the new retirement age, where you max out your social security and your retirement accounts (technically age 70.5) and still lead a healthy life.We're on kids now. Good. Nice change of topic. We all want our kids to be successful, but at what costs? I come from an environment in that if you wanted something ... you went out and got it or achieved it without financial help from your parents. I provided the pathway for my kids to succeed, but the choice is THEIRS on what they want to do with their life. Success is not measured in $$$$$$. Yes ... of course $$$$$ makes things easier, but not always better.
Neither of my children wanted to pursue dentistry/ortho. One is in business/finance/marketing and the other is interested in Psychology. I support both kids with their decisions especially seeing the large dental school debt these kids have and future practice debt.
I don't care about how successful others may have it. Again, success can be measured in many different ways.
Maybe I'm selfish, but you also have to think about YOURSELF. Delayed gratification only goes so far. I want to enjoy life's pleasures whether they be material objects or not ..... when I am able to enjoy them. Wait too long .... and you may regret that decision.
When you get into your 50's ... you'll realize that TIME is the most important asset to have. I've secured enough wealth to be able to comfortably work PT in my 50's. I am healthy and motivated enough to continue to work till I'm 70 ... if I want. The key is that I get to do WHAT I WANT NOW.
Well .... it's Thursday am. Going out to take my dog for a walk and then off to the range to practice hitting some golf shots.
I
I think the reason your friend has no debt is every citizen in his country has to pay higher taxes to fund his education. When he gets out and starts working, his income will not be so great because a large portion of it will go toward paying taxes. Personally, I’d rather take out loan to pay for my own education and work hard to pay it back in 5-10 years than having to pay higher taxes for the rest of my life to support other people’s education.
Or if you are willing to go rural. I had classmates with guaranteed offers in the $250k range straight out of dental school. And I know some who beat that number their first year out. I think people who go to expensive schools AND only want to practice in a major metro are the ones where dentistry is not worth it. Unless they have a golden ticket with a family member’s practice.
In 20 years, that 700k will be about 400k in today's money and totally manageable
The article said he pays about $1,600 a month, which in 25 years = $500k, plus the $700k (as you said) = $1.2M. He will still pay over $1M+. Inflation or no inflation that’s still 7 figures that he needs to produce from patients with insurances that’s not increasing their fees year to year as much as inflation.
Who wants to live rural. It’s very isolated out there and defeats the purpose of choosing Dentistry in the first place, for lifestyle. Younger and future generations grew up in high social circles (digital or non digital) than previous generations.
I didn’t have a college degree to get into a Boston program, but my DAT was up there. You have to stand out one way or the other. I don’t think we have reached the point where schools are accepting more applicants without a college degree. Perhaps when the tables turn on high tuition schools and they get desperate for applicants, maybe we will see that then.
That is quite egocentric to think that everyone has the same requirements as you to attain their preferred lifestyle. Many of my classmates were born and raised in rural areas and wished to return to that type of environment. Living in a mega city is not the end all be all for every single person. Some prefer the relative isolation. Disclaimer: I was not raised in a rural area and currently am living in a large city, I too personally could not do rural dentistry.
If you can't save 400k in 20 years as an orthodontist you've made some terrible financial errors
or married the wrong girl
Which I would consider a terrible financial error
It’s not being egocentric, I worked in rural area myself, albeit it was for 6 months. There is a lot of money to be made in the rural areas, but the majority of young docs will not do it because they rather be in debt and live in a big city. I have classmates who worked in rural Midwest and in the south for 5 years, and I have seen them hate it (would never do it again) even though they paid off their loans. Yes, some may prefer isolation, but anything more 1-2 years, they will give in to the big change in lifestyle and the isolation, which is difficult.
I’m sure he can save $400k over 20 years, that’s $20k a year post tax. Any dentist can save that amount of money, if they try. If everyone with huge debt plans to use this strategy, this loophole could eventually be closed. I can see this being utilized by new docs in their mid-20’s, and pay the huge tax forgiveness payment by their late 40’s. They would still be relatively young and still have 20 more years before full retirement.
It isn't a loophole- the government is making their money back several times. He's paying a couple of thousand a month for 20 years plus 700k, really they're gouging the guy and the forgiveness just ends the gouging
As we see more $1M+ in student loan grads, there will eventually (at a tipping point) be less people applying to schools, and less people graduating and joining the workforce. The supply of dentists is expected to grow 6% over the next 5 years, but demand will be at 10% for the same period due to more older dentists retiring and population growth. If the supply of new dentists carry more and more unsustainable education debt, it will have a big effect on the profession’s supply of dentists in the long term.
Derailed not in the sense of the end of Dentistry, but Dentistry will be much different and be limited in many ways financially by insurance reimbursements, significant education loans on doctors, more corporatized offices, more dental therapists pushing to fill for dentists in shortage areas and eventually in some urban areas, and pretty much the continuous lack of dentists working together and organize to fight against these inevitable challenges.
My offices are in Columbus. I have a friend from Chicago and recently moved to El Paso, Texa. He is doing well and loves his job can, but hates the isolation. He knows no one there, but makes very good income. I visited him once and the city is bigger that I thought, but it was a big downgrade socially for my friend that he just goes home after work and tries to keep himself busy. It’s pretty much Groundhog Day for him almost every day. I know another friend from Miami, FL area, who lived and recently sold her practice after 5 years in Peioria, IL. She made a lot of money, but she had her own regrets too. At the outset, it’s very nice and exciting to get paid really well at a small town or rural areas, and make plans to pay off debt. But very often, it’s not for the majority of people... specially those who are from big towns or cities.
