Walmart Dr's Or Potential Dr's...

[fight4odrights]

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Consider this message a very small way of fighting the behemoth that is WalMart. I worked for WalMart as an independent contractor for 2 years, despite having dreams of my own private practice. At the beginning it sounded like the perfect job for any OD with overwhelming student loans. The District Manager brought me in and sat me down, looked me in the eyes and said, " I want you to treat this place like your own private practice. Grow it like it was your own." So I dove in head first, fell in love my office staff and patients, and ONE YEAR LATER the bomb dropped.
This same district manager came into my office and announced that the rent was now 20% of my total gross earnings, despite having told me the year before that it was 10% and would never increase.
She also told me in the same breath that my exam prices were too high and that I should consider lowering them to remain competitive. (She said there were complaints about my prices and I should lower them- these "alleged" complaints were never substantiated)
She also said I was the highest price in town for an eye exam.( TOTAL LIE- in fact I was the second lowest price in town for an eye exam)
She mentioned that the paid yellow pages advertising for WalMart Vision Center was now financially the doctor's responsibility, but not to worry, because it was only about $150/ month. (The statement from the advertising actually came in for about $425/ month)
She topped it all off with " that's the renewal offer, and if you don't like it, we'll understand".
So let me get this straight, I need to LOWER my exam fees to make you happy, AND you're going to take DOUBLE the rent from me that you took before?! Wow. What a great deal...
Fear does funny things to people. My fear of unemployment made me sign the contract for another year. During THIS year, my location went through repeated staff changes and the implementation of HIPAA. Needless to say, the office flow was horrible. Incompetency was abound. Now, contract renewal #2 was up, but this time it was a different story.
The new D.M., we'll call him Mr. Corrupt Representative, told me that WalMart was not renewing my contract. He did not so much as offer a reason, instead said, "WalMart does reserve the right to terminate or not renew contracts without having to give a reason". Professional, huh?
I don't know about all of you other O.D.'s out there, but my aspiration after EIGHT YEARS in school was to get the boot from a guy who probably has no college education, PERIOD.
So, the purpose of my tirade, you ask? Here it is. WalMart is corrupt and engages in price-fixing. They harrass and intimidate. When they come into your office with the contract, they have you write in the hours 10 to 7 and then tell you that you can work whatever hours you see fit. "We just need to show corporate 10 to 7 on paper, what they don't know won't hurt them". No, it won't hurt them, it'll hurt YOU. Because the minute you wise up to the fact that they are politely telling you to lower your prices, you'll realize that what they are doing is illegal. At least in my state it is. If you actually work the hours you "see fit" and don't lower your prices, well, they can fire you for breach of contract because you worked 10 to 6:30 instead of 10 to 7.
Bottom line is this: They think we are stupid and they can walk all over us. I called 37 different Wal-Marts in different states and guess what? The doctor's prices for eye exams are so close (regardless of geographic area) that you HAVE to smell a rat.
Doctors are signing managed care agreements as a PART of the contract renewals! Who is WalMart to tell an independent O.D. what insurance company you're going to participate with?!
If you are thinking of working for WalMart, DON'T. They will squeeze every last ounce of hard work out of you, and then ask you for your soul.
In the process of looking for another job, I have spoken with TWELVE, yes that's TWELVE other O.D.'s that have had THE SAME EXACT EXPERIENCE WITH WALMART. Colleagues, this is not a coincidence, it's a conspiracy.
This D.M. came in to talk to me once when he was doing a store visit, and told me that at his latest district managers meeting in Arkansas there was a poll taken showing how private practices nationwide were going under because of overhead costs, and how WalMart was the wave of the future of optometry. He also offered this stupid "fact" (and I swear he said this, you cannot possibly make up something this stupid) "More people shop at WalMart than read the Sunday paper". Is that supposed to make me feel better about you guys %&*- ing me financially?!!
Tell you what, if you actually believe that line of ****, especially the bit about private practice being the least lucrative option for an O.D., I have ocean front property in Idaho to sell you...
If you have had a similar experience with WalMart in your town, please get in touch with me. There's a lady at the AOA's legal department who I have been advised to get in touch with.
If you work at WalMart now and just "love it" , don't worry... you'll soon wake up from your daydream, I can almost guarantee it.
My state board already has an investigation in place and they, of course, cannot offer details, but would love concrete evidence such as documents or recorded conversations to help prosecute the appropriate people.
If you don't work at WalMart, you should'nt EVER. would you go to K-Mart to see a podiatrist? I am not undermining O.D.'s that work there because I know they work hard, just like I did. But you have to admit, you shouldn't be able to get an oil change, pick up baby diapers, grocery shop and get your eyes examined under the same roof. WalMart has no business in OUR business. You don't see me trying to sell tires, do you?
Economically speaking, WalMart is the cancer of corporate America. Job out sourcing, hiring illegal aliens for $2 a day, not paying overtime, predatory pricing, the list goes on...
If you want the full picture, pick up a book by Jim Hightower title "Thieves in High Places". Trust me, it is the most eye opening piece of literature I've read to date about WalMart.
If you are currently working at WalMart and afraid to come foward because of their possible "retaliation" aka termination of employment, I recommend you contact your state board and the AOA... and me. Did you all know it only takes THREE people to file a class action lawsuit? 😎

 

[rpames]

Great post. Although I don't believe that Walmart is the future of optometry, I do have to say that if we (ODs) stop getting jobs there, they can't be the future. Not to mention, if opticians get the right to refract and perscribe glasses, I guarentee every ODs contract will be terminated.

Thanks for posting!

 

[xmattODx]

Great post. Although I don't believe that Walmart is the future of optometry, I do have to say that if we (ODs) stop getting jobs there, they can't be the future. Not to mention, if opticians get the right to refract and perscribe glasses, I guarentee every ODs contract will be terminated.

Thanks for posting!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Walmart and their ilk ARE the future of optometry. Not because they offer better care or have better equipment, etc. but because of the history of optometry. Optometry has long been a profession of sales. We devalued our services long ago and made up for cheap exams by selling spectacles. That can't change. People already complain about $49 Wal-Mart exams. If all docs upped their fees, and Wal-Mart even bought in there would be revolution in the streets (I exagerate of course). Optometry has long sold itself short and now with the optometry schools producing way too many ODs, and tuition being ridiculous, commercial optometry will thrive.

Now don't get me wrong I am not a fan of Wal-Mart and what it does not only to our profession (I'm actually an Anit-Capitalist, Anti-democratic, anti-nationalist anarchist) but to other businesses in the towns it moves into, but they are good at what they do and if they think eye-care can make them money they must be on to something. Rather than complaining about the ODs who work there, perhaps, you should complain about the OD schools producing more graduates than the market can bear. There will ALWAYS be ODs who have to do commercial no matter how dirty it makes them feel.

 

[cpw]

Great post. Although I don't believe that Walmart is the future of optometry, I do have to say that if we (ODs) stop getting jobs there, they can't be the future. Not to mention, if opticians get the right to refract and perscribe glasses, I guarentee every ODs contract will be terminated.

Thanks for posting!

as long as people graduate from schools 150K in debt.. there will always be demand for jobs at wal-mart (its a sad and unfortunate truth)

 

[rpames]

If all schools forced their students to take a course like the elective one I'm taking right now, no one would think they HAVE to work a chain. The prof has given us several real life examples of graduates from our school who never had to work at Wal-mart to pay off their debt. The one he gave last night was like this: Married and had a combined student loan debt of $210,000. This person did a residence and had a practice purchased before the residence was over. She and her husband then bought a house and had a baby. By the time they are 40, they will have a net worth over 1 million dollars and will be able to retire at age 55 with ~$6.4 million in the bank. And they will have a continued income after retirement of about 98% of their last years income. He calculated her yearly income increase at only 5% and a starting salary of ~$70,000. He used very reasonable (even conservative ) numbers. He has said may times that there in almost no reason why a student can not buy/start a private practice right after graduation. Keep in mind that he is not an OD, and he is telling this to current students. That means he is not trying to convince us to come to the school nor does he have a vested interest in the profesion that makes ego get in the way of what he is telling us.

The class has been very eye opening. I wish every student at every school had to take the class.

 

[xmattODx]

Ask him where in the US she is practicing? This makes the largest difference, it can't be most large cities in populous states. Ask where she got the money to buy the practice? What type of practice is it? What commercial establishment is in the area? Do not buy into the cookie cutter concept of everyone will be able to make a great income working private practice. Do you want to hear the story of the guy who is incredibly intelligent, motivated, FAAO, who had to CLOSE not sell his practice because he couldn't make it work? There are a lot of hard working people who couldn't make it work. Moral is you will be comfortable as an OD, however, be prepared for a career path that is different than you imagined. (I am not down on the profession I just want students to be fully informed while in school. There is not a lot of reality while at school.)

 

[rpames]

She is practicing in the Chicago area and got her money for the practice from a bank loan, just like everyone. I'm not exactly sure what type of practice it is, but I know it is one doctor office with an optical.

 

[ArgyllRobertson]

I love reading about Wal-mart related posts. I worked at a Wal-mart vision center back in 97/98 as an optician/tech prior to OD school in 98. At the time, Wal-Mart seemed to actually treat their doctors with at least a modicum of professional respect. According to this posting and others I've read this has fallen off in recent years as more and more graduates are applying for fewer available commercial jobs. Simple economic theory at work here. Even salaries/per diem seems to be shrinking. The dr. I worked with at the time was making just over 6 figures (I seem to recall 112,000) on 5 to 5 1/2 days/week, and he started at a base of 70,000 per year in 1994. From what I've heard many corporate positon's base salaries now are starting below that, in 2004. That, of course, is troubling.

This doc told me his DM actually said his fees were too low - the business was just too busy to miss out on more profit. I guess times have changed!

I am a military OD. I have never worked in the optometric commercial sector, corporate sector, private sector, etc except at that Wal-Mart as a tech. Eventually, down the road, I will be looking to get out and i'm always curious to hear what civilian optometry positions really entail.

I agree that any corporate entity dictating terms to an "independent doctor of optometry" about how to practice, when to practice, etc.. it definitely in breach of the letter of the law. They then become an "Employer" and should become responsible for providing benefits, paying FICA taxes, and other respects toward an "employee", as some "independent practitioners" apparently are. Bravo to you fight4OdRights for taking up this cause. I am sure there are many, many more out there who are also desperate not to lose their jobs so then bow to outrageous demands. If enough pressure is brought to bear maybe this will be sorted out. I want to believe that once corporations are called out on these practices they will change their policies (with crocodile tears).

This of course leads directly to the effect of an oversupply of OD's on salaries/employment terms, etc., but that's for another thread entirely. Maybe titled "Correlating Basic Economic Theory to the Rise of Corporate Optometry (and the subjugation of the optometric body)". It's a no-brainer folks. Many are in denial over this.

I will eventually separate from the military. Can any of the practicing OD's out there, especially you fight4odrights and xmattodx, give me some insight into working conditions at a place like Wal-Mart, or any other employed situation? I am curious to compare it to the situation my doc was in, and also just for my own benefit when I begin my job search, should the need arise. I hope that the need will not arise.

PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING FOR OUR BENEFIT

Specifically:
1) Hours required/days worked. I hear it is common now to have to be at Wal-mart 6 days/wk and amazingly even 7 days/wk. Is this reality??

2) Vacation time given? (For those employed)

3) Benefits? Disability, Health, Life, CE (for those employed)

4) Patients seen per day/exam time. Please don't say 12 minutes.

5) General attitude of WM management towards "full-scope" optometry: following up on routine medical cases - GPC, conjunctivitis, corneal ulcers, dry eye syndromes. Obviously they aren't going to go for setting up a VT center. That goes without saying.

6) How "bad" do you feel at the end of the day compared to other practice modalities? How happy are you at the job, really?

7) Salary range or realistic earning potential. This is important even if some still in school gallantly say it isn't. It is. Even if money won't make you happy, paying off your loans will make you happy - that is a big yoke to carry.

I think any answers to these questions would give huge insight for prospective students, current students, and yours truly - Thank you.

 

[fight4odrights]

I love reading about Wal-mart related posts. I worked at a Wal-mart vision center back in 97/98 as an optician/tech prior to OD school in 98. At the time, Wal-Mart seemed to actually treat their doctors with at least a modicum of professional respect. According to this posting and others I've read this has fallen off in recent years as more and more graduates are applying for fewer available commercial jobs. Simple economic theory at work here. Even salaries/per diem seems to be shrinking. The dr. I worked with at the time was making just over 6 figures (I seem to recall 112,000) on 5 to 5 1/2 days/week, and he started at a base of 70,000 per year in 1994. From what I've heard many corporate positon's base salaries now are starting below that, in 2004. That, of course, is troubling.

This doc told me his DM actually said his fees were too low - the business was just too busy to miss out on more profit. I guess times have changed!

I am a military OD. I have never worked in the optometric commercial sector, corporate sector, private sector, etc except at that Wal-Mart as a tech. Eventually, down the road, I will be looking to get out and i'm always curious to hear what civilian optometry positions really entail.

I agree that any corporate entity dictating terms to an "independent doctor of optometry" about how to practice, when to practice, etc.. it definitely in breach of the letter of the law. They then become an "Employer" and should become responsible for providing benefits, paying FICA taxes, and other respects toward an "employee", as some "independent practitioners" apparently are. Bravo to you fight4OdRights for taking up this cause. I am sure there are many, many more out there who are also desperate not to lose their jobs so then bow to outrageous demands. If enough pressure is brought to bear maybe this will be sorted out. I want to believe that once corporations are called out on these practices they will change their policies (with crocodile tears).

This of course leads directly to the effect of an oversupply of OD's on salaries/employment terms, etc., but that's for another thread entirely. Maybe titled "Correlating Basic Economic Theory to the Rise of Corporate Optometry (and the subjugation of the optometric body)". It's a no-brainer folks. Many are in denial over this.

I will eventually separate from the military. Can any of the practicing OD's out there, especially you fight4odrights and xmattodx, give me some insight into working conditions at a place like Wal-Mart, or any other employed situation? I am curious to compare it to the situation my doc was in, and also just for my own benefit when I begin my job search, should the need arise. I hope that the need will not arise.

PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING FOR OUR BENEFIT

Specifically:
1) Hours required/days worked. I hear it is common now to have to be at Wal-mart 6 days/wk and amazingly even 7 days/wk. Is this reality??

2) Vacation time given? (For those employed)

3) Benefits? Disability, Health, Life, CE (for those employed)

4) Patients seen per day/exam time. Please don't say 12 minutes.

5) General attitude of WM management towards "full-scope" optometry: following up on routine medical cases - GPC, conjunctivitis, corneal ulcers, dry eye syndromes. Obviously they aren't going to go for setting up a VT center. That goes without saying.

6) How "bad" do you feel at the end of the day compared to other practice modalities? How happy are you at the job, really?

7) Salary range or realistic earning potential. This is important even if some still in school gallantly say it isn't. It is. Even if money won't make you happy, paying off your loans will make you happy - that is a big yoke to carry.

I think any answers to these questions would give huge insight for prospective students, current students, and yours truly - Thank you.

The answer to your first question depends on your DM. My first DM said that full time contracts had to be 48 hours. You are given the option to sign for 5 or 7 days a week. But a word of caution here...
Should you take a 7 day contract and hire another OD to work 2 days a week for you, you are still responsible for the 20% rent and are ALSO responsible if the doc doesn't show up, calls in sick, etc.
This, I hate to say, constitutes breach of contract and there's your reason for "termination". So please be careful and don't take their word for it, get it in writing.
Question 2: Vacation time? That's funny. I gave them 4 months notice when I took a week off to get MARRIED, and they expected me to find fill-in (silly me). The only people I know are other OD's who already have jobs or were coming to my wedding. So guaranteed vacation time is non- existent. The contract says they need 60 days notice for any time off, by the way.
Question 3: Benefits, not if you're independent. Which is something you need to factor in when you look at your take home $$$ at the end of the year
Question 4: patients per day? There is no guarantee. I've seen as many as 29 and as little as zero. that's right, ZERO. Imagine sitiing in the same office for 9 hours and seeing no patients? Scary... And yes, this has happened several times. There are also days like today where I saw ONE patient. These low number days far exceed the 29 patients/ day. The time with the patient is up to you and how many you've got on the schedule.
Regardless of the schedule, I spend the same amount of time with all my patients and more with those who need it. I refuse to sacrifice quality for quantity.
Question 5: My staff was great with me in the beginning, even going so far as to schedule appts for CE evals and so forth...
what Wally world does have a problem with is what you charge for emergency, or office visit, fees. I know one doctor that charges $20 for emergency visits, and that includes follow ups...
i think that is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY when you have that high risk red eye in YOUR chair and it's YOUR license on the line. A doc at a CE confrence I went to said once, " as an optometrist, you should be paid for your training, skill, knowledge and risk", and i agree wholeheartedly. especially when the ER resident at the hospital will tell you to flush your eyes out, use some tobradex and go see your regular doctor for a cool $500.
Question 6: I never felt "proud" of the fact that I worked at WalMart, but I did feel personal gratification from being able to help and educate my patients. I will really miss them ( call me a sap, its OK)
I really would have liked to start my own practice, which would give me the same job satisfaction (and not to mention a cut on the profit from glasses and contacts. hey, I've got bills too..)
Question 7: Potential earnings? another very debatable topic. I know a doc who just got his own store that was projected to do phenomenally, and he had to scale it back to 4 days a week because it is so slow. On the other hand, there is a doc out in West Jabib who is rumored to be taking home about $200K a year. You need to get the "daily logs" from the previous doctor as evidence of what the store produces for the Dr. If they don't offer those to you for your review, RUN LIKE HELLL. Run like hell anyway, because eventually you will regret working there.

AND ABOVE ALL, TAKE YOUR CONTRACT HOME AND HAVE AN ATTORNEY REVIEW IT! DON'T LET THEM RUSH YOU INTO ANYTHING BECAUSE IT WILL BE TO YOUR DISADVANTAGE, NOT THEIRS. I say this in the best interests of MY colleagues. I know how hard it is to jump those hurdles, and it shouldn't be in vain. We all desrve to do well from a job satisfaction stand point and financial one as well.
Maybe someone can start a thread on why OD school is so expensive? Or why you cannot REconsolidate your student loans once you did it already? If you can refinance a house, you should be able to refinance your student loans....especially since mine are at about the same cost! Take care all! Best wishes

 

[JennyW]

Question 4: patients per day? There is no guarantee. I've seen as many as 29 and as little as zero. that's right, ZERO. Imagine sitiing in the same office for 9 hours and seeing no patients? Scary... And yes, this has happened several times. There are also days like today where I saw ONE patient. These low number days far exceed the 29 patients/ day. The time with the patient is up to you and how many you've got on the schedule.
Regardless of the schedule, I spend the same amount of time with all my patients and more with those who need it. I refuse to sacrifice quality for quantity.

AND ABOVE ALL, TAKE YOUR CONTRACT HOME AND HAVE AN ATTORNEY REVIEW IT! DON'T LET THEM RUSH YOU INTO ANYTHING BECAUSE IT WILL BE TO YOUR DISADVANTAGE, NOT THEIRS.

Regarding Question 4: This situation can happen in a private practice as well, and it usually does when you're starting out. Don't think that this problem is unique to Walmart. At least with Walmart you have SOME potential of walk-in patients. That rarely happens in private practice. Keep in mind also that expenses in a private practice are much higher than a Walmart lease.

Regarding the contract, you should ALWAYS have an attorney review any employment/lease contract you are going to sign whether it is with a commercial entity or a private practice doctor, because like this poster said, the contract that they present to you is going to be to their advantage, and not yours. (why would you expect anything different??) I am shocked at the number of people who sign commercial leases without having a professional review the contract or without negotiating with them.

Jenny

 

[JennyW]

PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING FOR OUR BENEFIT

Specifically:
1) Hours required/days worked. I hear it is common now to have to be at Wal-mart 6 days/wk and amazingly even 7 days/wk. Is this reality??

2) Vacation time given? (For those employed)

3) Benefits? Disability, Health, Life, CE (for those employed)

4) Patients seen per day/exam time. Please don't say 12 minutes.

5) General attitude of WM management towards "full-scope" optometry: following up on routine medical cases - GPC, conjunctivitis, corneal ulcers, dry eye syndromes. Obviously they aren't going to go for setting up a VT center. That goes without saying.

6) How "bad" do you feel at the end of the day compared to other practice modalities? How happy are you at the job, really?

7) Salary range or realistic earning potential. This is important even if some still in school gallantly say it isn't. It is. Even if money won't make you happy, paying off your loans will make you happy - that is a big yoke to carry.

For the record, I have a private practice now, but I used to have a Walmart lease. I will answer your questions:

1) Depends on the contract you sign. Some walmarts will support being open 7 days a week, but most will not.

2 & 3) There are few true employed situations, but the ones that are generally give the same benefit packages as other employees, and that includes medical/dental/401(k)/paid time off and in some cases, reimbursement for a portion of your CE and/or your license.

4) Varies widely from location to location. My location was "steady." I usually saw between 8-10 on Weekdays, and 14-18 on Saturdays.

5) My experience with this was that it was fine, but very few patients go to the Walmart docs for emergent care except on weekends. There isn't a lot of followups needed, because often times patients want to go to the doctor that accepts their insurance for their follow up care.

6) I wasn't particularly happy, though I didn't feel unprofssional. Many patients did not view you as a "real doc" but this isn't much better in most of the private practices I have worked in as well. Unfortunately in private practice, the bulk of revenue comes from materials, so you're essentially an eyeglass salesman most of the time. I didn't like this, so I do mostly VT and I do NOT have a dispensary in my office.

7) About $75000k to "sky's the limit" depending on location, and how much you want to work. The most successful docs that I knew had more than one location, and hired other doctors to work one or both locations many days. Often times, the amount you have to pay a doc employed by you is much less than what you take in. Yes, there are days when your secretary will make more than you, but those days were few and far between.

Jenny