Walmart to limit opioid prescriptions

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TheLoneWolf

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So how would this work, established patient continued on current doses or would we need to prove a letter to the pharmacy that they are a chronic pain patient in need of high dose COT? If so, still a decrease in the creation of new high dose COT patients.

This is to prevent surgeons, dentists, podiatrists and other non-entities from handing out #180 oxy 10's.
 
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This is to prevent surgeons, dentists, podiatrists and other non-entities from handing out #180 oxy 10's.

Hence, they need to go to “pain management” because the pharmacy won’t honor their prescription. “Ugh”. This is the second best thing that has happened to surgery. Operate away and turn this crap to someone else.


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Hence, they need to go to “pain management” because the pharmacy won’t honor their prescription. “Ugh”. This is the second best thing that has happened to surgery. Operate away and turn this crap to someone else.


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If you view it as, "I must continue opiates forever in this patient who was started on opiate for acute pain by someone else," then yes, it's bad.
If you view it as, "I must not continue opiates beyond the acute pain period prescribed by someone else, because that's not considered appropriate or acceptable anymore," then it's a great thing.

I'm taking the latter view.
 
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So how would this work, established patient continued on current doses or would we need to prove a letter to the pharmacy that they are a chronic pain patient in need of high dose COT? If so, still a decrease in the creation of new high dose COT patients.
I think it would require an insurance pre-approval like any other insurance non-preferred drug, but I'm not sure.
 
If you view it as, "I must continue opiates forever in this patient who was started on opiate for acute pain by someone else," then yes, it's bad.
If you view it as, "I must not continue opiates beyond the acute pain period prescribed by someone else, because that's not considered appropriate or acceptable anymore," then it's a great thing.

I'm taking the latter view.

I just can’t see the silver lining aspect of this and can’t see it as job security for a job I desire. I see it as a sh-tty job taken off of someone’s shoulders and placed upon mine.


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I just can’t see the silver lining aspect of this and can’t see it as job security for a job I desire. I see it as a sh-tty job taken off of someone’s shoulders and placed upon mine.


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Say hello to CMS global period. I don't treat any of these patients but send them right back to their dealer. If they come see me again in 3 months, then I do a re-eval. 99% never come back and my RN screens 90% in the first place before they ever hit my door.
 
If you view it as, "I must continue opiates forever in this patient who was started on opiate for acute pain by someone else," then yes, it's bad.
If you view it as, "I must not continue opiates beyond the acute pain period prescribed by someone else, because that's not considered appropriate or acceptable anymore," then it's a great thing.

I'm taking the latter view.

So for teaching purposes, let's say a general surgeon sends you a post-op lap choley for pain management. Would you just give narcotics for 7 days and tell patient thats it?
 
So for teaching purposes, let's say a general surgeon sends you a post-op lap choley for pain management. Would you just give narcotics for 7 days and tell patient thats it?

In general, it should be the surgeon doing that, and telling the patient that if they're acutely or sub-acutely post op. If someone is in my office acutely post op, my first question is not how long the opiates are going to continue, but instead, why are you not in the surgeon's office? My view, is that it's a surgeon's job to manage his patient's post op pain, routinely, for routine cases. It's a surgeon's responsibility to deal with the complications of his knife. A surgeon wouldn't operate and once a wound infection pops up, dump the patient on ID and tell ID to "give antibiotics for 10 days and tell the patient that's it," would he? Should he?

No. Now, if there's a complex case and a need for consultation, that's a different story. But a consultation is a two way street. It's not a transfer of care, unless that's mutually agreed upon. It should never be a dumping off process.

Post op pain, as an expected complication of surgery, is similar. The surgeon should treat the post op pain, and as the patient heals, taper the opiates off when the acute pain period ends. In 2018, having had surgery should not mean you're expected to be kept on a lifetime of opiates, just because you had surgery.

That being said, you take each case one at a time because there can be extenuating circumstances and in such cases you do what makes sense and document the reasons. But as a routine, I rarely get referred a patient that has fresh acute post surgical pain, because the surgeons are routinely treating that pain as they should.
 
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In general, it should be the surgeon doing that, and telling the patient that if they're acutely or sub-acutely post op. If someone is in my office acutely post op, my first question is not how long the opiates are going to continue, but instead, why are you not in the surgeon's office? My view, is that it's a surgeon's job to manage his patient's post op pain, routinely, for routine cases. It's a surgeon's responsibility to deal with the complications of his knife. A surgeon wouldn't operate and once a wound infection pops up, dump the patient on ID and tell ID to "give antibiotics for 10 days and tell the patient that's it," would he? Should he?

No. Now, if there's a complex case and a need for consultation, that's a different story. But a consultation is a two way street. It's not a transfer of care, unless that's mutually agreed upon. It should never be a dumping off process.

Post op pain, as an expected complication of surgery, is similar. The surgeon should treat the post op pain, and as the patient heals, taper the opiates off when the acute pain period ends. In 2018, having had surgery should not mean you're expected to be kept on a lifetime of opiates, just because you had surgery.

That being said, you take each case one at a time because there can be extenuating circumstances and in such cases you do what makes sense and document the reasons. But as a routine, I rarely get referred a patient that has fresh acute post surgical pain, because the surgeons are routinely treating that pain as they should.

So if I were to get a post-op pain management referral for acute post surgical pain, I should bounce it back to gen surgeon (assuming its not a complex case)?
 
So if I were to get a post-op pain management referral for acute post surgical pain, I should bounce it back to gen surgeon (assuming its not a complex case)?

Are you a Pain fellow? I'm going to answer as if you are.

I don't know. It depends what you want to do and what kind of practice you want. You're free to see whatever patients you want and like to see and whomever you think you can help. But you're not obliged to accept dumps of responsibility. If a surgeon has a patient on which he legitimately needs help controlling their pain, I see no reason you shouldn't see the patient. But if he's just dumping the patient because of Walmart, then, no.
 
Thanks! Helpful to know which patients to accept and which to not

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