WAM(wife's)C? 515, 3.9

[koomzzy]

Hi there!

My wife is re-applying to MD programs this cycle after applying very late in 2020-21 cycle and not really having good direction or plan... . Here is what we have right now, am I'm a little neurotic when it comes to worrying about acceptances. She isn't as much lol.


Cumulative GPA: 3.90
BCPM GPA: 3.98
note: These were calculated from 2020-2021 cycle, she has taken 1 more class (A-) since then so these might dip a tiny, tiny bit. Still waiting for verification this time around
MCAT Scores: 515 (129/126/131/129) taken May 2022, 503 (125, 122, 128, 128) taken in 2020
State of Residence: Ohio
Ethnicity: Asian
Undergraduate Institution: Large Public University in Southeast US
Clinical Experience: ~5000hrs as a certified MA (internal med) while finishing undergrad, ~200hrs internship during MA program in cardiology
Research Experience: ~4000hrs post-graduate gut microbe research, 1 first author pub, and 2 co-author pubs with a 3rd in preparation. A poster presentation as well as a regional conference
Shadowing: ~30hrs in urology surgery and ~20hrs in neurology, plans to shadow more this summer
Non-clinical volunteering: ~80hrs total, all at clinical sites but doing non-clinical tasks (packaging food, running mail, visiting with patients, etc.)
Other activities: Limited with regard to application applicability, mostly awards. Received award for most outstanding student in MA program for displaying leadership and helping classmates. Another merit based scholarship and award based on research performance. Spends a lot of time hiking and with family.
Other: She is a 1st generation high school graduate from a poor socio-economic status (3rd world country immigrant/refugees) I don't know how much that matters, but I think it's at least some what relevant.

Med School List: (in no particular order) *=Applied in 2020
1. Johns Hopkins
2. Yale *
3. Ohio State *
4. Mayo Clinic
5. Case Western (and CCLCM) *
6. Duke
7. UNC
8. South Carolina Columbia *
9. Medical U of South Carolina *
10. Arizona - Phoenix *
11. Connecticut
12. Buffalo *
13. Rochester *
14. U Chicago *
15. Northwestern *
16. U Illinois Chicago *
17. Rush
18. Drexel
19. U Penn
20. Colorado *
21. Wayne State
22. Cincinnati
23. Toledo
24. Miami
25. Quinnipiac
26. Stanford
27. Wright State
28. NEOMED
29. Wisconsin
30. Temple

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[Faha]

Unless she attended UNC or the South Carolina schools remove those. Also UConn, Buffalo, and Arizona admit few non residents with no connection the state. She could add any of these schools:
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
St. Louis
Western Michigan
USF Morsani
Tulane
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Hackensack

 

[koomzzy]

Unless she attended UNC or the South Carolina schools remove those. Also UConn, Buffalo, and Arizona admit few non residents with no connection the state. She could add any of these schools:
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
St. Louis
Western Michigan
USF Morsani
Tulane
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Hackensack

Thanks! She did attend USC Columbia. And originally from Western NY. So that explains the SC schools and Buffalo.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

The SES matters a little bit, but I normally want to know how that could be connected with community service. I would expect some within and outside that community for the best chances in addressing service orientation. What are these community service activities that do not have a direct relationship to clinical exposure?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

A ton of these are donations, no offense.

Take off

1. Johns Hopkins
2. Yale *
3. Ohio State *
4. Mayo Clinic
5. Case Western (and CCLCM) *
6. Duke
7. UNC
8. South Carolina Columbia *
9. Medical U of South Carolina *
10. Arizona - Phoenix *
11. Connecticut
12. Buffalo *
13. Rochester *
14. U Chicago *
15. Northwestern *
16. U Illinois Chicago *
19. U Penn
20. Colorado *
26. Stanford
29. Wisconsin

 

[koomzzy]

A ton of these are donations, no offense.

Take off

1. Johns Hopkins
2. Yale *
3. Ohio State *
4. Mayo Clinic
5. Case Western (and CCLCM) *
6. Duke
7. UNC
8. South Carolina Columbia *
9. Medical U of South Carolina *
10. Arizona - Phoenix *
11. Connecticut
12. Buffalo *
13. Rochester *
14. U Chicago *
15. Northwestern *
16. U Illinois Chicago *
19. U Penn
20. Colorado *
26. Stanford
29. Wisconsin

Maybe I understand the top tiers, but why not try?

Ohio State is a in-state school, so I'm confused as to why that's a donation.
Case (and CCLCM) she's pretty well connected with faculty and MDs (and DOs) at CCF so confused here too.
SC - graduated from there, so also confused.
Arizona - Phoenix ~46% of matriculants last year were OOS. So?
Buffalo & Rochester - she grew up in western NY.

Some elaboration on some of these would be nice. But saying no offense doesn't negate the possibility of actually providing meaningful feedback.

 

[candbgirl]

Maybe I understand the top tiers, but why not try?

Ohio State is a in-state school, so I'm confused as to why that's a donation.
Case (and CCLCM) she's pretty well connected with faculty and MDs (and DOs) at CCF so confused here too.
SC - graduated from there, so also confused.
Arizona - Phoenix ~46% of matriculants last year were OOS. So?
Buffalo & Rochester - she grew up in western NY.

Some elaboration on some of these would be nice. But saying no offense doesn't negate the possibility of actually providing meaningful feedback.

She can apply wherever she wants to apply. These are suggestions based on experience. You are very new here. Perhaps take a couple of days and read through the WAMC threads. Many of your questions will probably be answered.

Eighty hours of nonclinical volunteering is very low. You were asked above what exactly the activities are but you didn’t reply. Nonclinical volunteering is expected to be focused on serving the unserved/underserved in her community. Medicine is a service profession and she has to show ADCOMS that she can deal with people very different than herself. Because that’s who she will be dealing with as a doctor.
She also should get some shadowing with a primary care doc. It’s sort of expected.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Maybe I understand the top tiers, but why not try?

Ohio State is a in-state school, so I'm confused as to why that's a donation.
Case (and CCLCM) she's pretty well connected with faculty and MDs (and DOs) at CCF so confused here too.
SC - graduated from there, so also confused.
Arizona - Phoenix ~46% of matriculants last year were OOS. So?
Buffalo & Rochester - she grew up in western NY.

Some elaboration on some of these would be nice. But saying no offense doesn't negate the possibility of actually providing meaningful feedback.

I’ll go through them…

First of all many schools average MCAT scores, so she has a 509 at worst 515 at best. With MCAT inflation, a 515 is below the 10th percentile at most top schools

For top tiers:

People who get into top tiers with 515 have some sort of hook (Olympic athlete, founder of a national nonprofit, Rhodes scholar, nature pubs). Doesn’t look like she has any of that.

For Case/CCLCM:

Case is another top tier. Unless her connections include having a parent who is a PD or on the admissions committee, it will be an uphill battle. Even then, MD schools have fairly stringent voting requirements to avoid nepotism. Case is worth trying but CCLCM is totally out of reach imo. It compares in competitiveness to Harvard, Yale etc.

Ohio State:

This is fine but she will still be a lower tier applicant. Much better chances at other Ohio state schools besides Cincinnati which is easier than OSU but still hard


SC: Still OOS and none of the South Carolina schools admit more than 5% OOS

Arizona: Thry prefer high stat OOSers and mission fits


Buffalo: unless she went to HS in NYS, it’s OOS unfriendly and unlikely

Rochester: Similar to case but to a less extent.

Are you a med student or physician? I’m not trying to be rude but I don’t think you realize how competitive the competition has become

 

[fxryker]

@koomzzy candb and vox make good points, but this isn't to say your confusion isn't valid. Given you're new, being told to slash schools off your list (even if it's by frequent posters) may seem jarring, but trust that you're in good company. Keep browsing the forums with that healthy level of concern, and don't take these things too personally. Ultimately we're on your side

 

[koomzzy]

She can apply wherever she wants to apply. These are suggestions based on experience. You are very new here. Perhaps take a couple of days and read through the WAMC threads. Many of your questions will probably be answered.

Eighty hours of nonclinical volunteering is very low. You were asked above what exactly the activities are but you didn’t reply. Nonclinical volunteering is expected to be focused on serving the unserved/underserved in her community. Medicine is a service profession and she has to show ADCOMS that she can deal with people very different than herself. Because that’s who she will be dealing with as a doctor.
She also should get some shadowing with a primary care doc. It’s sort of expected.

Suppose I missed the intention of the question above and didn't reply. She volunteered at a dental clinic for the uninsured in the inner city. Some was clinical in the sense that she took vitals and organized the scheduling. But also packing food to-go and overall aiding in their experience.

To comment on me not understanding the competitiveness aspect mentioned by vox. I think I understand the competitiveness more so than she does, I'm essentially the only reason we added the OH state schools and some of the others than vox didn't suggest removing from the list. Otherwise the list would look pretty poor.

She has ~5000 hours working in primary care, it was a paid position so she could get through college so not necessarily shadowing, but there were times she did shadow while working there. I think that's not really reflected in what I've typed up.

 

[koomzzy]

I’ll go through them…

First of all many schools average MCAT scores, so she has a 509 at worst 515 at best. With MCAT inflation, a 515 is below the 10th percentile at most top schools

For top tiers:

People who get into top tiers with 515 have some sort of hook (Olympic athlete, founder of a national nonprofit, Rhodes scholar, nature pubs). Doesn’t look like she has any of that.

For Case/CCLCM:

Case is another top tier. Unless her connections include having a parent who is a PD or on the admissions committee, it will be an uphill battle. Even then, MD schools have fairly stringent voting requirements to avoid nepotism. Case is worth trying but CCLCM is totally out of reach imo. It compares in competitiveness to Harvard, Yale etc.

Ohio State:

This is fine but she will still be a lower tier applicant. Much better chances at other Ohio state schools besides Cincinnati which is easier than OSU but still hard


SC: Still OOS and none of the South Carolina schools admit more than 5% OOS

Arizona: Thry prefer high stat OOSers and mission fits


Buffalo: unless she went to HS in NYS, it’s OOS unfriendly and unlikely

Rochester: Similar to case but to a less extent.

Are you a med student or physician? I’m not trying to be rude but I don’t think you realize how competitive the competition has become

Thanks for the input. To get to the final point, no I'm a Chem PhD so I likely don't know the competitiveness of this, but I've been pushing for a wider application net because I think she's dismissed that competitiveness aspect and I'm trying to advocate for better chances.

I know the top tiers are a stretch. Trust me. She doesn't think they are and I'm not changing her mind on that. So as you said, yes likely donations and there's nothing we can do about that unfortunately.

Buffalo/Rochester; yes she did go to HS in NYS. Grew up in Rochester as well.

She applied in October the last time around, and interviewed at USC-Columbia (waitlisted), so she is re-applying this time.

Admittedly, I don't know if re-applying is a good thing or a bad one. I'm just a spouse worried that this cycle isn't going to be as fruitful for her as she thinks it will be. I convinced her to expand her list to the one above, but I really don't think I'm going to convince her to add more than that. Since the app is submitted, the ones on the list will get her primary, at least.

Apologies for the rudeness, non-intended I promise.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

No worries we’re just trying to help. I think she should add all Sunys (stony brook, upstate, downstate) singe she went to HS in NY, look at some of the private schools in Michigan, Creighton, MCW, Rosalind

 

[candbgirl]

@koomzzy applying to med school is really competitive. Each cycle less than 40% of ALL applicants are accepted to any med school and of this number about half are accepted to only one med school. This means that near 60% of all applicants are outright rejected each cycle, including those with stellar application. As to being a reapplicant, who knows if it hurts or not. But ADCOMS do expect to see significant improvement from the last application. Hopefully she is aware of that. And it always important to have a good list of schools. This can make or break a cycle.
Good luck as she moves forward.