WAMC 2024 cycle 2nd time Applicant

[PostedNoted]

Applied to Iowa State, Michigan, and Colorado 1st cycle. Had no vet experience during the 1st application, but I sent it anyways.
Waitlisted OOS Michigan & rejected from Iowa State/Colorado.

I am hoping to reapply to Michigan for their holistic application, Iowa State for in-state (both veterinarians for my LOR went there) and I'm going to apply for pretty much every other school that doesn't require the GRE.

Age 23, Male, Asian American, First-generation.

Going for holistic schools and my application heavily emphasizes lab animal medicine/research. My personal statement involves dealing with the suicide of my best friend of 13 years, which also happened during my undergrad. Despite how cheesy it sounds; he left me a message to pursue this field and I won't let him down. I know my GPA isn't the greatest, but I had to deal with some emotional trauma for some time and made apparent in my application. One part I think I can improve on is diversifying my experience, but that's something everyone says.

Cumulative GPA: 3.45
science GPA: 3.35
last 45: 3.54

B.A Biology & Minor in Chemistry

GRE results: N/A

Veterinary Experience:
1040 hours small animal as a VA/receptionist (Current)
20 hours lab animal medicine shadowing

Animal Experience:
760 hours Lab animal medicine caretaker for university I graduated from. (mice, rats, guinea pigs). Previously employed.

Research Experience:
~2425 hours working for my PI in plant genetics research. A 4th author out of 9 of an upcoming paper. My application contains all the details about my research, but I won't post it here for privacy concerns.

Awards/scholarships:
2 scholarships regarding research projects
-One is for a project proposal
-One is a competitive research/academic enrichment program funded by NIH
Dean's List 5/8 semesters during my undergrad for the university I graduated from.

Extracurriculars:
President of a gardening club for my university and had previous executive role as garden manager (Secured grant funding 25,000$ to build on-campus gardens as well as another 25,000$ from the university matching the contribution). We are allocated over +10,000$ every fiscal year for projects from student government.

Part of the different committees for diversity, equity, and inclusion for my major. Mainly bringing attention to professors about academic retention for disadvantaged students and bring light of outstanding members of the department.

Learning assistant (not TA) for a core chemistry course for undergraduates during one semester.

TRIO SSS member since freshman year.

5 LORs
-Research PI
-Small animal veterinarian
-Supervisor from animal caretaker role
-Veterinarian from animal caretaker role
-Professor from undergraduate class

Employment
Undergrad research assistant for 2+ years
Summer Garden Manager 2 summers
Animal caretaker 4+ months full-time
VA/Receptionist 6 months, as of now, full-time

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[puppydogtor]

Since no one's responded yet, I'll offer some input
Your GPA is your weak spot, but I think the rest of your application is really well rounded with your lab animal and research experience. Since you have the whole summer until apps are due, I'd recommend dedicating some time gaining non-SA vet experience. I also can't really judge your personal statement without being able to read it, but it sounds like you emphasized a big reason for pursuing vet med is to not let your friend down. I think it's important to highlight why you want to pursue this for you, not for anyone else. You can leave that in as part of your motivation, but if it's your main reason it seems like you're just adding pressure for yourself when vet students are under a lot of pressure already.

Applying to schools is expensive. It also becomes more tedious with each school you add since a lot require supplemental essays or applications. I wouldn't recommend applying to "pretty much every other school that doesn't require the GRE," that's most of them now. Definitely look up GPA cutoffs - if you are below the cutoff they will not consider your application. I've seen a lot of cutoffs around 3.2, but check them just to be safe.

 

[PostedNoted]

Since no one's responded yet, I'll offer some input
Your GPA is your weak spot, but I think the rest of your application is really well rounded with your lab animal and research experience. Since you have the whole summer until apps are due, I'd recommend dedicating some time gaining non-SA vet experience. I also can't really judge your personal statement without being able to read it, but it sounds like you emphasized a big reason for pursuing vet med is to not let your friend down. I think it's important to highlight why you want to pursue this for you, not for anyone else. You can leave that in as part of your motivation, but if it's your main reason it seems like you're just adding pressure for yourself when vet students are under a lot of pressure already.

Applying to schools is expensive. It also becomes more tedious with each school you add since a lot require supplemental essays or applications. I wouldn't recommend applying to "pretty much every other school that doesn't require the GRE," that's most of them now. Definitely look up GPA cutoffs - if you are below the cutoff they will not consider your application. I've seen a lot of cutoffs around 3.2, but check them just to be safe.

Thank you for your help! I definitely agree with getting some non-SA experience. There's a place that does animal rescue/sanctuary for large animals and I will volunteer over the summer to get that needed experience. In my personal statement I also emphasize on myself wanting to become the first one in my family to pursue higher education; to break into unchartered territory and make it easier for people like me to chase similar fields. I've also made sure to let them know that my parents are already proud of who I am now, but I know I can go even further, and my friend's experience is only one factor of many.

I've looked at the previous AAVMC statistics for admitted applicants for 2022 and it looks like the cutoff is 3.3 GPA. Admitted Student Statistics - AAVMC
However, I'll limit myself and try my best on filling out the supplemental for some schools. Quality vs quantity mentality. I definitely think I'll still reapply to the schools I've applied previously to, and I've started the application from a blank state.

I've taken the GRE but I'm in the 38th percentile for verbal, 30th percentile for quantitative reasoning and 54th percentile for writing. Do you think that I should add that into my application despite the fact I know it's well below average?

Thanks again for the response!

 

[puppydogtor]

I didn't take the GRE nor am I super familiar with it, sorry

 

[matthirten13]

I've taken the GRE but I'm in the 38th percentile for verbal, 30th percentile for quantitative reasoning and 54th percentile for writing. Do you think that I should add that into my application despite the fact I know it's well below average?

I don't see how this would help you, so I personally wouldn't.

 

[supershorty]

I don't see how this would help you, so I personally wouldn't.

Agreed, if anything, I think it would hurt, so if not required by the program, I'd not include it. And if it is required by a program you're applying to, retake it.

 

[Georgethecat]

Thank you for your help! I definitely agree with getting some non-SA experience. There's a place that does animal rescue/sanctuary for large animals and I will volunteer over the summer to get that needed experience. In my personal statement I also emphasize on myself wanting to become the first one in my family to pursue higher education; to break into unchartered territory and make it easier for people like me to chase similar fields. I've also made sure to let them know that my parents are already proud of who I am now, but I know I can go even further, and my friend's experience is only one factor of many.

I've looked at the previous AAVMC statistics for admitted applicants for 2022 and it looks like the cutoff is 3.3 GPA. Admitted Student Statistics - AAVMC
However, I'll limit myself and try my best on filling out the supplemental for some schools. Quality vs quantity mentality. I definitely think I'll still reapply to the schools I've applied previously to, and I've started the application from a blank state.

I've taken the GRE but I'm in the 38th percentile for verbal, 30th percentile for quantitative reasoning and 54th percentile for writing. Do you think that I should add that into my application despite the fact I know it's well below average?

Thanks again for the response!

Not to be harsh, but it’s not surprising that you received mostly rejections from your first application cycle if I’m reading correctly that you applied without any veterinary experience?

Puppydoctor advised that you research the schools you are interested in for gpa cutoffs. A gpa cutoff is different from the posted average gpa’s on the AAVMC site. Also be aware that different schools calculate their gpa’s differently, hence the need for you to do careful research on the schools you are interested in. For example, some schools calculate all of the math and science classes that you’ve taken for the science gpa and others only use their required pre-req classes. Some schools allow for grade replacement and others average all attempts.

Agree that you should not include the GRE scores.

I’d advise that you have your personal statement/essays reviewed by both people that know you well and by someone who doesn’t necessarily know you well but that is a good writer/has experience with grad/professional school applications. Not saying that you should pay for an application service. Use your schools services, SDN has people who volunteer to critique essays etc. The end goal is to make sure that you are clearly articulating why you want to pursue a career in veterinary medicine. While your friend’s belief that you should pursue this career is touching, you need to be careful how this comes across to admissions committees.

Positives are that you have research experience and a publication in the works, your gpa’s are on average for a number of schools, a decent number of vet hours, and interesting animal experience hours. I would work on diversifying your vet experiences this summer before you submit your application

 

[supershorty]

Applied to Iowa State, Michigan, and Colorado 1st cycle. Had no vet experience during the 1st application, but I sent it anyways.
Waitlisted OOS Michigan & rejected from Iowa State/Colorado.

Is this an exaggeration, or did you really have zero veterinary hours? If the latter, that’s something that would get your app tossed pretty much everywhere right away.

Without talking about your friend at all, why do you want to be a veterinarian?

 

[supershorty]

In my personal statement I also emphasize on myself wanting to become the first one in my family to pursue higher education; to break into unchartered territory and make it easier for people like me to chase similar fields. I've also made sure to let them know that my parents are already proud of who I am now, but I know I can go even further, and my friend's experience is only one factor of many.

I have to break up my replies to different posts because I’m terrible at quoting on mobile, but if this was the main idea throughout your personal statement, then it goes back to the question I asked you - this paragraph doesn’t give any idea of why you want to be a doctor of veterinary medicine in a way that would make the reader go “yes, this person would be a good addition to the field.” Right now, it reads like you want to get into vet school more to tick some boxes that you think will make people proud of you, but what you need to be conveying is why you want to be a doctor and treating animals.

That doesn’t mean you can’t talk about your friend or your family, of course, but the main theme needs to be why you want to be a doctor and what is driving you to pursue that, independent of your friend’s wishes or making your family proud.

Also, re: diversifying experience: yes, that’s often said by applicants or in the advice they’re given, but that’s because it does really matter. This should be a strong priority for you in preparing to reapply.

I encourage you to take advantage of the personal statement reviews that people volunteer to do on this site to get some fresh eyes on it and get feedback from someone who is a neutral third party.

 

[supershorty]

I'm going to apply for pretty much every other school that doesn't require the GRE.

This is going to cost you a lot of money. As puppydogtor said, research the individual programs you are interested in and see if you’ll be a competitive applicant there. A shotgun-style approach is expensive and will not be the best use of your time working on supplemental apps if it’s for programs where you won’t be competitive. Your in-state program is a good start. Because your GPAs are pretty average, programs that are super competitive for out of state (NCSU, CSU, UGA, Davis all immediately come to mind) should be off your list. KSU, MSU, ISU are examples of schools that would be better attempts, IMO.

(I know it’s tempting to go “but some people they admit have to be below their average - that’s how averages work!”, I did that myself when I applied my second time and applied to Davis for no good reason beyond my ego, but it’s more likely to just lose you time and money).

 

[PostedNoted]

Is this an exaggeration, or did you really have zero veterinary hours? If the latter, that’s something that would get your app tossed pretty much everywhere right away.

Without talking about your friend at all, why do you want to be a veterinarian?

It is not an exaggeration. I had no hours whatsoever. I was actually surprised I got waitlisted from Michigan.

There are a couple reasons I want to become a veterinarian. The first reason is I want to set an example for other first-generation students like myself and once I do become a veterinarian, I want to provide them opportunities that they may have never have because of various factors like socioeconomic, and education access. The second/third reason is when I do pursue a career as a lab animal veterinarian I would love the opportunity to pursue research in improving the lives of research animals within reasonable limits, and I see that I'd be saving the lives of others by providing these researchers with the best subjects because they could be doing studies that will help the lives of other people in the future, such as cancer treatments, neurological impairments, or pathology. The sky's the limit is what I'd like to think when it comes to lab animal medicine (also writing grants for $$$).

I would be willing to send my personal statement to SDN volunteers. However, I just don't want to publish it publicly.

As per other suggestions from previous replies, I will try my best to get some large animal experience under my belt. Just a couple questions, would getting let's say 6 hours of shadowing with a large animal veterinarian be worth more than a week's worth of volunteering at a large animal sanctuary? I know to get as many hours as possible, but what's everyone's opinion on the minimum for large animal experience and large animal veterinary experience?

Also, when shadowing veterinarians, how do y'all approach in wanting to get more experience with them? I feel that when I do shadow with veterinarians for a day or so, I don't build much rapport nor a connection with them and feel that the experience is not worth putting it on my resume. To me it just seems so odd to have 5 hours of random experience. Would schools even bother to verify the hours if I had shadowing experiences from multiple different veterinarians, but with so little hours with them?

 

[matthirten13]

As per other suggestions from previous replies, I will try my best to get some large animal experience under my belt. Just a couple questions, would getting let's say 6 hours of shadowing with a large animal veterinarian be worth more than a week's worth of volunteering at a large animal sanctuary? I know to get as many hours as possible, but what's everyone's opinion on the minimum for large animal experience and large animal veterinary experience?

I think large animal vet > sanctuary, but 6 hours is not enough. Likewise, I don't think your 20 hours shadowing a lab animal medicine vet is enough, especially as that seems to be the main focus of why you want to go into vetmed (plus you mentioned research and grants but have no relevant biomedical research experience I can see either). I would aim for a minimum of 100 hours for any type of experience you pursue. (Arbitrary, more is better but I think 100 hours will look okay on an app and give you somewhat of a sense of what it's like, plus limited time til deadline).

I know large animal is the classical suggestion for improving chances + increasing experience diversity, but I think you should go for more lab animal hours as well. You didn't mention wanting SA despite your vet hours being there, so you need to make sure the career you want to pursue is actually the one you are envisioning. This is especially important if lab animal will be the crux of your interviews and personal statement.

 

[IvyMoose]

I would be willing to send my personal statement to SDN volunteers. However, I just don't want to publish it publicly.

I will just add that there is usually a thread posted during the app writing season (starting around march ig) that has a list of SDN volunteers to go over apps (and what they will look for). Look out for that thread (or create your own...?)... an example from last year: 2027 Personal Statement Readers

if you want to create your own, just copy the instructions from the one above and make it...? IDK the tradition with starting that thread lmao so IDK who is usually the first to make it... I haven't seen a 2028 personal statement readers list yet (which is kinda late huh). Someone correct me if there is one already existing

 

[PostedNoted]

Here's the current update on my situation for y'all. Thank you all again for the great advice! I finally got some large animal/food animal experience and should expect to have around 400+ hours until submitting the application and hope to get another LOR from a recent graduate (2022) at my IS school. For lab animal medicine, I don't have enough time to get more veterinary experience on that end with the time I have devoted to other experiences, and bank on my experience as a lab animal caretaker. As for proofreading, I have gotten feedback from a graduate student that I did research with, as well as a previous proofreader for the writing center at the university I graduated from.

My current application list is KSU, Ohio, Iowa State (IS), and Michigan.

 

[PostedNoted]

Hey y’all I got another question regarding LORs. I have the option to get an LOR from two potential veterinarians that are mixed practiced. With that being said I already have five completed on VMCAS and can’t remove or alter them. VMCAS only allow a max of 6 LORs. Both veterinarians both graduated from my IS school and I’m confident they both can talk about my capabilities. However, I can only pick one. One veterinarian graduated in 2022, with a DVM. The more senior veterinarian graduated in 2010 with a DVM/Ph.D. I’ve reached out to VMCAS for a response about altering/adding LORs and haven’t heard back yet, but I assume they’re strict on their guidelines. I’m stuck between the two because one is a recent graduate and the other has seniority.
Here’s additional info for my other LORs,
One is my PI
One is professor undergraduate class
One is DVM from IS graduate 2000~
One is DVM Lab animal vet resident from Michigan entered 2016
One is supervisor from lab animal caretaker job.


Sorry for the bother! But thanks in advance ☺️

 

[matthirten13]

Hey y’all I got another question regarding LORs. I have the option to get an LOR from two potential veterinarians that are mixed practiced. With that being said I already have five completed on VMCAS and can’t remove or alter them. VMCAS only allow a max of 6 LORs. Both veterinarians both graduated from my IS school and I’m confident they both can talk about my capabilities. However, I can only pick one. One veterinarian graduated in 2022, with a DVM. The more senior veterinarian graduated in 2010 with a DVM/Ph.D. I’ve reached out to VMCAS for a response about altering/adding LORs and haven’t heard back yet, but I assume they’re strict on their guidelines. I’m stuck between the two because one is a recent graduate and the other has seniority.
Here’s additional info for my other LORs,
One is my PI
One is professor undergraduate class
One is DVM from IS graduate 2000~
One is DVM Lab animal vet resident from Michigan entered 2016
One is supervisor from lab animal caretaker job.


Sorry for the bother! But thanks in advance ☺️

If you think one would write a much stronger letter, pick them.

Otherwise, I would go for the senior veterinarian over the recent grad. Both are vets but one is more established (and might also have more experience writing letters like this). Not sure if the PhD helps, but I feel it can't hurt.

Edit: I will add that I was told residents at a teaching hospital are not the best to use for LoRs, especially compared to vet profs, and they are recent grads. (I still used one though fwiw)