WAMC, 3.88, 522, applying at 17 years old

[Critical-Pass2843]

Hi all -- longtime lurker, first-time poster here. I'm maybe a bit of a different flavor of "nontrad" applicant to what you normally see. I graduated from college last May at 16 years old. I'm on a gap year right now, turning 17 soon and planning on applying to med school this coming cycle. I have known that I wanted to be a doctor since I was really young, stemming from my twin loves of working out how complicated systems work and working with and helping people in need. I originally wanted to apply straight through when I graduated, but a few people whose opinions I value a lot advised me to take some time off to do something different and make sure this is what I really want to do. For the past year I have been mainly working at a startup related to my major while wrapping up some projects with my undergrad lab and also doing some clinical volunteering/shadowing on weekends. Tbqh I have not found this gap year to be that meaningful--I tried to keep an open mind going in and ask myself if I wouldn't rather continue the startup work, or just apply to PhD programs to do full-time research, or something else, but the answer has always been the same--I want to go to medical school. While I do find my work interesting and intellectually engaging, what I find myself looking forward to all week is my weekend volunteer shift in the hospital, and even more so the days when I get to shadow. So while I have been busy, this past year has mostly just felt like sitting on my hands doing more of the same of what I was doing in college and "waiting" to do what I already knew I wanted to do before graduating.

I'm planning to apply in the cycle beginning this summer. I'm probably going to apply to a mix of MD and MD-PhD programs. My main question is really, how much of a problem will my age be to schools and on interviews (and which schools should I have on my list/are more "open-minded" than others?). I am sure I will get questions like, "How do you know you are mature enough for medical school?" It seems there's no good answer as it's clearly a loaded question--whoever asks will have already made up their mind that I am not.

(open to ideas for how to respond creatively!!! as well as, where should I apply/would have a chance)

cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS: 3.88 / 3.93 respectively (Bioengineering)
MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 522 (131/132/130/129)
Ethnicity and/or race: ORM female
Undergraduate institution or category: Flagship state school (not specifying for anonymity)
Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): all volunteer, about 1800h total
Research experience and productivity: 3 years of research experience (didn't count hours but... alot lol), 2 minor authorships published, 1 co-first author paper with some minor revisions to go before acceptance. Most likely coming out later this year.
Shadowing experience and specialties represented: shadowed in primary care, orthopedic surgery clinic, pediatrics, cardiology. Also once with a nurse.
Non-clinical volunteering: I do some volunteer tutoring in schools in low-income neighborhoods. I've also been involved in some community cleanups and that sort of thing.
Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc): TA'd Intro BME lab as a senior in college. Started a group in my city to go into high schools and talk to students about healthcare careers and connect them with shadowing and volunteering opportunities, which I was president of. Also started a site for contributed essays/poetry/artwork relating to health and healthcare, pretty niche. Working at a biomedical devices startup now.
Relevant honors or awards: Dean's List, a fairly competitive named scholarship, a local community service thing
Anything else not listed you think might be important: if it matters I moved to my own apartment near campus (rented under my parents' names) so I could get to classes easier when I was 14 and since having my own income have been paying the rent myself

TIA!

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[Mr.Smile12]

Congratulations! Regarding your age: you have time to make sure that you know patients can be comfortable with you. You also will have classmates who are at least 10 years older than you, so you need to be comfortable working with them too. Yes, you need to come up with your answer to the "maturity" question, but be assured, that will disappear in due time.

What's really important is to find mentors for you at this point who can help you with that question. Have you sought and found affinity groups, especially those that support URM women such as SNMA/NMA? There are lots of organizations who can be happy to mentor you as you continue in your medical career.

 

[Critical-Pass2843]

Congratulations! Regarding your age: you have time to make sure that you know patients can be comfortable with you. You also will have classmates who are at least 10 years older than you, so you need to be comfortable working with them too. Yes, you need to come up with your answer to the "maturity" question, but be assured, that will disappear in due time.

Thanks! Of course I can provide objective evidence that I am mature, such as -- I have been living on my own since 14, graduated college at 16, have a job and take care of myself, led a research project to publication working with people 10, 20, even 30 years my senior... However I am not sure how persuasive that will be since to me it sounds like not a real question at all, but rather them telling me they think I am not mature enough, before even getting to know me. I was hoping to get some ideas for what possible creative answers might be to a question like this in the interview.

What's really important is to find mentors for you at this point who can help you with that question. Have you sought and found affinity groups, especially those that support URM women such as SNMA/NMA? There are lots of organizations who can be happy to mentor you as you continue in your medical career.

Sorry, I meant to say I am ORM, not URM. Tbh I am not sure about this--I would prefer to be considered based on my merits and achievements, and not things I cannot change like my race or age. I have mentors who are physicians but I have never felt "more" connected to any particular mentor (or anybody) just because they shared my skin color. At any rate none of them has direct experience with applying to medical school before most people apply to college.

 

[a_distant_dream]

With respect to demonstrating maturity, the best way might be your LORs. If writer(s) with a lot of experience mentoring people (perhaps your PI) strongly assert that you are ready for medical school and possess professionalism / maturity laudable for someone 5 years your senior, that might speak louder than any evidence you personally present. I think one of the best things an applicant can do is to coordinate their letters and it’s something I wish I spent more time on.

In terms of being asked directly in interviews, I think a great starting point is to say that you considered the question yourself, asked physicians / medical students / adcoms, and they said you were ready and encouraged you to apply this cycle. (The prerequisite is you doing your due diligence to seek out said individuals and asking for guidance.) The question isn’t meant to single you out - I got asked plenty of times and I’m 23 years old!

 

[a_distant_dream]

Sorry to double post - just realized I forgot to suggest schools. Unfortunately, my experiences are purely anecdotal. I think WashU is fairly supportive of younger students - I got in as a trad applicant and a friend who got in is 2 years younger than me. NYU and Georgetown accepted some trad students in my year as well. Yale might be a tough nut to crack - they only accepted a tiny amount of trad students last year, including their own undergrad. And of course Harvard (also USCF, Stanford imo) likes to collect unique people. At Mayo and UChicago, I was the youngest person on interview day by far.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks! Of course I can provide objective evidence that I am mature, such as -- I have been living on my own since 14, graduated college at 16, have a job and take care of myself, led a research project to publication working with people 10, 20, even 30 years my senior... However I am not sure how persuasive that will be since to me it sounds like not a real question at all, but rather them telling me they think I am not mature enough, before even getting to know me. I was hoping to get some ideas for what possible creative answers might be to a question like this in the interview.


Sorry, I meant to say I am ORM, not URM. Tbh I am not sure about this--I would prefer to be considered based on my merits and achievements, and not things I cannot change like my race or age. I have mentors who are physicians but I have never felt "more" connected to any particular mentor (or anybody) just because they shared my skin color. At any rate none of them has direct experience with applying to medical school before most people apply to college.

Thanks. I would still look for a mentor or a team of them. Your story comes with a lot of signs of resilience, and it helps you navigate the different culture of academic life and medical school. There are also affinity groups for ORMs out there depending on how you identify yourself.

 

[BroncosCountry12]

Sorry to double post - just realized I forgot to suggest schools. Unfortunately, my experiences are purely anecdotal. I think WashU is fairly supportive of younger students - I got in as a trad applicant and a friend who got in is 2 years younger than average. NYU and Georgetown accepted some trad students in my year as well. Yale might be a tough nut to crack - they only accepted a tiny amount of trad students last year, including their own undergrad. And of course Harvard (also USCF, Stanford imo) likes to collect unique people. At Mayo and UChicago, I was the youngest person on interview day by far.

Is being traditional a disadvantage (Like if two people had same exact application but one is applying straight through and one is taking a gap year)?

I understand that having a gap year helps pad your application so people with gap years tend to have stronger applications, but assuming you have a strong application, is being traditional looked down upon?

 

[LizzyM]

Would you consider doing a PhD first and then applying for MD? The down side is that your MCAT will have expired. MD/PhD might be the best bet given that you'll have a few years of PhD work behind you before you see patients on a full-time basis (you'll have some patient facing experiences in M1 and M2 but they are minimal).

 

[Critical-Pass2843]

Would you consider doing a PhD first and then applying for MD? The down side is that your MCAT will have expired. MD/PhD might be the best bet given that you'll have a few years of PhD work behind you before you see patients on a full-time basis (you'll have some patient facing experiences in M1 and M2 but they are minimal).

I wouldn't do PhD to MD--it doesn't strike me as making any financial sense to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to then do the MD if I already know I want to do both, and if anything the MD more (I can see how it would make sense for someone who didn't decide to pursue medicine until they already had a PhD). MD/PhD would probably actually be my preference but I know those programs are much more competitive. Do you have any advice for making my application more competitive?

Of course it sounds like your real concern isn't that patients will read my file and find out I was born in 2006, but that they will look at me and see a kid. Unfortunately if genetics are to be believed I'm not sure that will change much if even if I wait 10 years. My sister just turned 28 and she still gets mistaken for a teenager (we look very similar).

 

[LizzyM]

I'm not so concerned about how patients will perceive you but how you will manage the difficulties that patients face. Delivering bad news, dealing with accidental errors that harm patients, coping with the emotions that come with caring for profoundly ill babies, children and young adults, giving and receiving criticism, dealing with disappointment, bullying and insults. There are also the issues related to how you will relate to fellow students and be able to mix with fellow students and have fun when that is called for.

 

[Critical-Pass2843]

I'm not so concerned about how patients will perceive you but how you will manage the difficulties that patients face. Delivering bad news, dealing with accidental errors that harm patients, coping with the emotions that come with caring for profoundly ill babies, children and young adults, giving and receiving criticism, dealing with disappointment, bullying and insults. There are also the issues related to how you will relate to fellow students and be able to mix with fellow students and have fun when that is called for.

I see. I think there are two good points here that I'll try to address separately. The first seems to be, how will I deal with the emotionally difficult parts of medicine. I think this is a good point but isn't limited to me--I think nobody can know for sure until they've actually experienced it. I don't see that being a 22 year old medical student makes it easier for you to tell someone their child died, and the variation between individuals is probably much larger than the variation within that narrow age range (whereas it might be more different for someone who is e.g. 50). The only thing I can see making it easier is direct exposure and experience dealing with illness, death, disappointment, etc. followed by debriefing them in a structured way, which for most people can only be obtained in a setting like medical school where they come up. It is true that certain experiences most people have around 18-22 (moving out of home, living independently and taking care of oneself for the first time, going to college and interacting with a wide diversity of people, working and supporting oneself, and developing ways to cope with the stresses brought about by all of the above) do cultivate independence and emotional regulation that are prerequisite for dealing with difficult topics--but these are all experiences I've had in the past four years as well. I don't think a few more years in a sheltered setting like research or my job will prepare me any better than just doing it--don't get me wrong, I think my work is important, but it will never be life-and-death.

With respect to the second point (my social life in medical school), that seems like more of a personal matter that I should be able to make my own decision on. FWIW I didn't have trouble mixing with people older than me in college, and if anything my profile will be pretty typical for an M1: graduated from a 4-year college within the past 2 years, took two gap years to work, and have been living on my own for about 4 years. One could argue a much older student, who might have a family, children, a previous career, might commute from far away rather than living near campus, would have a lot more trouble relating, but no one would say that should be a reason they either shouldn't go to medical school or shouldn't be admitted.

 

[LizzyM]

We do worry about med students who are isolated -- that could be the case for someone who is alone at school and not engaged with fellow students or another peer group whereas someone with a spouse and children would not be in those circumstances.

You seem to be dead set on applying. Shoot your shot. You'll either get in or you won't. Either way, you will learn something about yourself and about the process. I usually say "wait until you have the strongest application you can have" but you don't seem to want to hear anything but your own echo chamber. Good luck!

 

[mike-sheree]

I'm not so concerned about how patients will perceive you but how you will manage the difficulties that patients face. Delivering bad news, dealing with accidental errors that harm patients, coping with the emotions that come with caring for profoundly ill babies, children and young adults, giving and receiving criticism, dealing with disappointment, bullying and insults. There are also the issues related to how you will relate to fellow students and be able to mix with fellow students and have fun when that is called for.

Boy, is this ever the truth! Everyone of these situations. You must be very honest with yourself. I dealt poorly with such circumstances regarding patients. Hence, I became a pathologist. ( i was ok with the bullying and insults 🤪).

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I would recommend waiting until you are old enough to legally drink...your application looks impressive on paper, but you are quite young. Maybe you happened to bloom early and beautifully, and all will truly be well. MD/PhD programs might not be a bad idea for you...in your shoes if I was hell-bent on applying now I would apply only to MD/PhD programs. If I was rejected, I would travel or work or something, get some life experience, maybe join the Peace Corps or something...and apply when I was 20 or 21. Medicine is very much a team sport and you may find it harder to build those bonds with medical students 5 or 10 years older. Or maybe not.

While medical school is not elite undergrad school, there are a decent number of people like you being offered admission to places like Harvard or MIT at age 14; generally, the admissions committees encourage applicants to defer until they are 16 or 17.

Good luck. Make sure to take care of your mental health; medical school is a big commitment and the only concerns I might have is that you don't quite know who you are as a person and that you might want something other than medicine 5 or 10 years from now. Ultimately the decision is yours.

 

[KatsuCurry]

I'm not an adcom, but as a medical student, I think you'll be fine, if not in great shape. You have a 3.9/522 - there are probably no more than ~1000 applicants in the country who have stats as impressive as yours. You have every box checked with regards to your application. If you write and interview well, I'm almost certain you'll be accepted somewhere.

There are people in my class that are over 30 who are not as mature as you seem to be from the two threads you've posted. There'll also be two years between when you start medical school and when you'll actually be seeing patients meaningfully.

Honestly, I'm a little shocked by the responses you got here and in the other thread. Society definitely has a bias issue where people seem to believe that youthfulness necessarily implies naïveté and a lack of perspective (I say this as someone in their late 20s). We should be working to overcome bias and stereotypes in health care, not perpetuate them by saying someone can't start training to be a doctor just because their age is 18. Should we also not accept people who are 35 because of stereotypes associated with older age?

Also, are people aware that the U.S. and Canada are pretty much the only countries in the world where you don't start medical school straight out of high school? There are attending physicians who are 22 years old in other health care systems that run as well as, if not better than, ours. You can have tons of life experience by age 18, and it seems as though you do, given you've graduated college and seem to have worked a real job at a start-up company for a year already.