WAMC - 3.95/522/DE/ORM. REAPPLICANT

[thefinalletter123]

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[Moko]

• GPA: 3.95
• MCAT: 522
• Clinical experience: 1300 hours
• Research experience: 2500 hours
• Shadowing: 70 hours
• Leadership not listed elsewhere - lots
• Non-clinical volunteering: 800 hours
• Presentations/Posters: 5 posters
• Tutoring: some exp
• Other extracurriculars: professional music producer
• Hobbies: Gardening and running a podcast

I also applied VERY late, with all of my applications not complete until october at the earliest.

Question 1: I am planning on applying to basically all the same schools as last cycle plus more. How much am I at a disadvantage since I did not submit primaries to a lot of schools? I am hoping that since I submitted late they will understand and will still give me the time of day. Am also mentioning on secondaries the reason for my financial constraints and why I was not able to submit a secondary if I can

I had 4 interviews at Hopkins, Columbia, Emory, and Yale. Rejected from all post interview, but I thought all except yale went well. Rest of my school list was terrible: Harvard, georgetown, GW, Maryland, Northwestern, Einstein, UCLA, UCSF, Rochester, St. Louis, Chapel Hill, Wake Forest, Wayne State, Cornell

Question 2: I am applying straight out of the gate from last cycle. No gaps in between cycles. How much will this effect me? I really dont think I have any negatives on my app except applying so late. I decided to apply again immediately because of this.

Question 3: Going into this cycle has been very anxious. I am applying to roughly 60 schools this time around as I absolutely have to get in somewhere this year. Also applying TMDSAS. What are my overall chances? Everytime i think about the cycle, I just think about getting rejected again lol

Thank you so much in advance for your responses and help.

Question 1: apply and be "complete" at your schools much earlier this cycle. You do not need to mention why you did not complete their secondary last year. Writing this is a waste of both your and our time.
Question 2: applying without a gap year is not a red flag. Generally, those who apply without a gap year will have less impressive ECs, but that was not your situation.
Question 3: I strongly recommend AGAINST applying to 60 schools. Your odds of getting an acceptance somewhere will be similar regardless of whether you apply strategically to 30 vs 60 schools. @Faha and @Goro for their recommendations.

Since you got 4 interviews that late in the cycle, your application on paper was clearly very impressive as you have detailed here. Columbia and Yale have non-rolling admissions, Hopkins has semi-rolling admissions, and Emory has rolling admissions. Your interviewing late would not have adversely impacted your chances at Columbia, Hopkins and Yale (schools with non-rolling and semi-rolling admissions). The fact that you received four post-interview rejections with your application strongly suggests that you are a terrible (and likely oblivious) interviewee.

Some interviewees have the personality of a cardboard sandwich; others can be too animated or appear disingenuous. Some can be socially awkward, too timid or anxious, while others can be plain obnoxious, overconfident, or tough to follow. Figure out what you are doing wrong during the interview and adjust accordingly.

If you work heavily on improving your interviewing skills and apply earlier to a targeted list of schools (i.e. not 60 schools!), you should get an acceptance this cycle. I'll defer to the experts for school list recommendations. Best of luck.

 

[thefinalletter123]

Question 1: apply and be "complete" at your schools much earlier this cycle. You do not need to mention your financial constraints as the reason for your not completing their secondary last year. Writing this is a waste of both your and our time.
Question 2: applying without a gap year is not a red flag. Generally, those who apply without a gap year will have less impressive ECs, but that is not your case.
Question 3: I strongly recommend AGAINST applying to 60 schools. Your odds of getting an acceptance somewhere will be the same regardless of whether you apply strategically to 30 vs 60 schools. @Faha and @Goro for their recommendations.

Since you got 4 interviews that late in the cycle, your application on paper was clearly very impressive as you have detailed here. Columbia and Yale have non-rolling admissions, Hopkins has semi-rolling admissions, and Emory has rolling admissions. Your interviewing late would not have adversely impacted your chances at Columbia, Hopkins and Yale (schools with non-rolling and semi-rolling admissions). The fact that you received four post-interview rejections with your application strongly suggests that you are a terrible (and oblivious) interviewer.

Some interviewees have the personality of a cardboard sandwich; others can be too animated or appear disingenuous. Some can be socially awkward or be way too timid and anxious while others can be plain obnoxious, overconfident, or tough to follow. Figure out what you are doing wrong during the interview and adjust accordingly.

If you work heavily on improving your interviewing skills and apply earlier to a targeted list of schools (i.e. not 60 schools!), you should get an acceptance this cycle. I'll defer to the experts for school list recommendations. Best of luck.

Hmm, perhaps I am a terrible interviewer. Didn't even consider that. I had a few mock interviews and all my feedback after said that I was well spoken and ready for actual interviews. Maybe I choked during the actual ones and didn't realize. Thank you for the advice. Will definitely work on this more.

As for not applying to 60 schools, doesn't more schools = more chances at interviews, and thus acceptances? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

 

[Moko]

Hmm, perhaps I am a terrible interviewer. Didn't even consider that. I had a few mock interviews and all my feedback after said that I was well spoken and ready for actual interviews. Maybe I choked during the actual ones and didn't realize. Thank you for the advice. Will definitely work on this more.

As for not applying to 60 schools, doesn't more schools = more chances at interviews, and thus acceptances? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

The problem with applying that broadly is that you will end up applying to very low yield schools where your chances of snagging an interview are close to zero. Think state schools with very strong in-state preferences, schools with markedly lower matriculant averages that will yield protect "superstar" candidates such as yourself, etc. Any money and time you spend on these schools will be wasted, and it will divert valuable time and energy away from the schools where you actually have a decent shot of getting an interview (and acceptance).

Also tagging @wysdoc since you mentioned applying to Texas schools.

 

[Goro]

Hmm, perhaps I am a terrible interviewer. Didn't even consider that. I had a few mock interviews and all my feedback after said that I was well spoken and ready for actual interviews. Maybe I choked during the actual ones and didn't realize. Thank you for the advice. Will definitely work on this more.

As for not applying to 60 schools, doesn't more schools = more chances at interviews, and thus acceptances? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Applying to 60 schools is insane.

You'll simply burn yourself out writing secondaries.

Target 25-35.

 

[Faha]

When you reapply, apply this month and submit all your secondaries by August. I suggest these schools with your stats:
Johns Hopkins
Columbia
Emory
Yale
Dartmouth
Brown
Boston University
Tufts
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Cornell
Rochester
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
U Virginia
Duke
Vanderbilt
USF Morsani
Miami
Tulane
Washington University (in St Louis. Almost a guaranteed interview with your stats)
St. Louis
Northwestern
U Chicago
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Kaiser
Mayo (both schools)

 

[wysdoc]

The problem with applying that broadly is that you will end up applying to very low yield schools where your chances of snagging an interview are close to zero. Think state schools with very strong in-state preferences, schools with markedly lower matriculant averages that will yield protect "superstar" candidates such as yourself, etc. Any money and time you spend on these schools will be wasted, and it will divert valuable time and energy away from the schools where you actually have a decent shot of getting an interview (and acceptance).

Also tagging @wysdoc since you mentioned applying to Texas schools. My suspicion is that unless you have a connection to the state, applying through TMDSAS will likely be relatively low yield. <10% of matriculants to TX schools are from out-of-state, and I suspect a good portion of these success stories have some connection to Texas, but I'll defer to the expert.

@thefinalletter123 Among the Texas schools, UTSW favors very high stat applicants like you and may give you an early interview.
Baylor will take up to 20% OOS and is more research-oriented than some of the others.
Dell will probably like your innovative activities and projects and its "Year of Growth" in MS3 allows you to choose a special project, see this page under "Distinction Options" Year 3: Growth | Dell Medical School

 

[Faha]

With your engineering background you could also add Carle Illinois.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

With those stats, be a bit more picky. No more than 20 IMO. Network and connect with the students at those schools.

Interview skills... practice.

 

[thefinalletter123]

Thank you everyone for the help and advice @Faha @Goro @Mr.Smile12 @wysdoc @Moko

Do you guys have any insight on how my chances will be impacted due to being a reapplicant who already submitted primaries to basically all the schools I am reapplying to? This is probably my biggest area of worry

 

[Goro]

Thank you everyone for the help and advice @Faha @Goro @Mr.Smile12 @wysdoc @Moko

Do you guys have any insight on how my chances will be impacted due to being a reapplicant who already submitted primaries to basically all the schools I am reapplying to? This is probably my biggest area of worry

I've seen posts from SDNers with apps like your who got in on the second try simply because they applied earlier on the rebound cycle.

And work on interview skills.

Rewrite essays...not 100% rewrites, just tweak them to show off what you've done in the past year.

 

[DelineSan]

@Mr.Smile12 how does one "network and connect with the students at those schools"? Does that entail emailing people who don't know me?

My undergrad doesn't produce a lot of top-tier med school students, so I don't have a lot of alumni contacts.


Not the OP so sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Mr.Smile12 how does one "network and connect with the students at those schools"? Does that entail emailing people who don't know me?

My undergrad doesn't produce a lot of top-tier med school students, so I don't have a lot of alumni contacts.


Not the OP so sorry for hijacking the thread.

Not to be flippant, but yes. Every AMSA and SNMA chapter I know has outreach to premeds.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you everyone for the help and advice @Faha @Goro @Mr.Smile12 @wysdoc @Moko

Do you guys have any insight on how my chances will be impacted due to being a reapplicant who already submitted primaries to basically all the schools I am reapplying to? This is probably my biggest area of worry

Simply put, you need to demonstrate significant improvement. More experience, better grades, interview skills.

 

[DelineSan]

Not to be flippant, but yes. Every AMSA and SNMA chapter I know has outreach to premeds.

My school has neither AMSA nor SNMA chapters. Or active ones at least.

Oh well

 

[KnightDoc]

My school has neither AMSA nor SNMA chapters. Or active ones at least.

Oh well

Don't worry. I don't know where that advice is coming from, but this isn't a job search. Current students have ZERO pull in the admissions process (other than when they are involved in admissions office sponsored activities, like interviews, etc.) and tens of thousands of applicants are successful, every single year, without networking with current students.

To be successful, you need an awesome application, not a current student buddy on the inside to put in a good word for you with the adcom, or to read the school's website to you so you can have the inside scoop on their mission and curriculum innovations.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Don't worry. I don't know where that advice is coming from, but this isn't a job search. Current students have ZERO pull in the admissions process (other than when they are involved in admissions office sponsored activities, like interviews, etc.) and tens of thousands of applicants are successful, every single year, without networking with current students.

To be successful, you need an awesome application, not a current student buddy on the inside to put in a good word for you with the adcom, or to read the school's website to you so you can have the inside scoop on their mission and curriculum innovations.

I agree as that's not how admissions works when it comes to getting an offer, but knowing about the school and showing it on interviews does mature a lot to faculty on many admissions committees who do make decisions.

 

[KnightDoc]

I agree as that's not how admissions works when it comes to getting an offer, but knowing about the school and showing it on interviews does mature a lot to faculty on many admissions committees who do make decisions.

Totally agree, but everything we need to know is on the schools' websites, as well as the school specific threads right here. If we happen to know someone who goes to a particular school, so much the better, but someone without access to that doesn't need to cold call people through AMSA in order to have a successful cycle.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Network and connect with the students at those schools.

never understood this advice. With most applying 20+ schools this is not practical. My kid didn’t do any networking before getting interview invitations.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

This is either poor interviewing skills or poor luck. There's a chance that your interview skills were fine and you just were a victim of bad luck. That being said, see how good your interviewing skills are. Maybe hire a professional if you have the money.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Totally agree, but everything we need to know is on the schools' websites, as well as the school specific threads right here. If we happen to know someone who goes to a particular school, so much the better, but someone without access to that doesn't need to cold call people through AMSA in order to have a successful cycle.

I can't speak for all AMSA chapters but they have premed sections for a reason. I think many are more receptive to receiving cold contacts than you think.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

never understood this advice. With most applying 20+ schools this is not practical. My kid didn’t do any networking before getting interview invitations.

Why is it not practical? One is willing to give hundreds of dollars to these schools without talking to any of the students going there? There are no guarantees in the admissions process of getting an interview, but making an informed choice is the responsibility of the applicant.

Not knocking this forum, but what would I expect all these applicants to do with SDN and reddit forums? I'm also guessing a lot of med students and residents have their personal social media accounts that others can follow. So to that end, I think it already happens in lurking mode. Why not actually try to stand out?

 

[KnightDoc]

I can't speak for all AMSA chapters but they have premed sections for a reason. I think many are more receptive to receiving cold contacts than you think.

The premed chapters operate at the UGs. They arrange events and bring in speakers. In the OP's case, if he doesn't have access to a chapter on his campus, cold calling AMSA at a med school would likely be no different, or even less effective, than just calling the admissions office. Again, I'm just not sure about the need pre-acceptance. Post acceptance, the admissions offices flood people with information to help them make decisions.

 

[deleted314957]

With your engineering background you could also add Carle Illinois.

Regarding Carle, if you are an engineer and a “ gear head/wonk” type you may not interview well with those not of the same ilk. I would REALLY look at Carle. Something to consider. You can talk about how algebraic topology can improve structural proteins or some such!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Why is it not practical? One is willing to give hundreds of dollars to these schools without talking to any of the students going there? There are no guarantees in the admissions process of getting an interview, but making an informed choice is the responsibility of the applicant.

Not knocking this forum, but what would I expect all these applicants to do with SDN and reddit forums? I'm also guessing a lot of med students and residents have their personal social media accounts that others can follow. So to that end, I think it already happens in lurking mode. Why not actually try to stand out?

What information exactly are you suggesting getting from medical students before applying? We can get stats from MSAR and we can figure out which schools focus on research vs service by going thru mission statements and SDN threads and WAMC section. I honestly couldn’t figure out why some schools didn’t extend interview invitation to my kid even after extensive research and don’t think talking to students would have made a difference.