WAMC: School List Advice, GPA 3.98 MCAT 520

[Sphygmomanometer]

Hello everyone, I am a senior premed planning to apply for the next cycle (taking one gap year). I would appreciate some advice on pruning/editing my school list so far!

• cGPA: 3.98, sGPA: 3.97
• MCAT: 520 (129/130/129/132)
• California ORM
• Top 25 undergrad school
• Clinical experience:
  • Took EMT/AEMT course requiring field clinical experience for about 100 hours.
  • Currently volunteer for collegiate EMS organization with 90+ hours, anticipating at the very least 300+ volunteer hours by the time of application.
• Research:
  • Part-time 3-month virtual research for a biology lab during freshman year with a virtual poster session within the lab.
  • Joined aforementioned lab sophomore year in-person for two semesters and a 10-week summer research program (selected with stipend). Participated in program-wide poster session, total hours from the lab should be 600+ hours.
  • Currently in a new lab researching a project about cardiovascular disease and the immune system, projecting 450+ additional hours by the end of senior year and at least one poster.
• Shadowing: Currently have shadowed an interventional cardiologist for 4 hours, scheduled to shadow a CT surgeon in a few weeks. Aiming to have around 50 hrs shadowing at minimum by the end of school year.
• Non-clinical volunteering:
  • 17 hours of miscellaneous volunteering
  • 26 hours with college org hosting weekly volunteer trips to help adult ESL classes at local technical college for refugees/immigrants. Expecting to work for same organization for entire senior year with greater commitment, projecting 75+ additional hours by the time of application.
• Other extracurricular activities:
  • Currently TA for human physiology class this semester.
  • Volunteer AHA BLS/CPR instructor facilitated by university EMS organization starting this semester.
  • Secretary for a club sport starting this semester, duties cover communication with club members, record-keeping, and logistics for tournaments and club events.
  • Joined an art club that pairs researchers with artists to create art for research projects.
  • Very limited engagement in fundraising for two clinical community service clubs freshman and sophomore years.
• Relevant honors/awards: Dean's List for four semesters.

Tentative School List (may shorten):
Harvard
UCSF
Stanford
WashU
Mount Sinai
Vanderbilt
Mayo
Cornell
Pitt
Northwestern
UCLA
UCSD
Emory
CWRU/CCLCM
Colorado
USC
Virginia
Ohio State
Boston University
Rochester
Brown
Einstein
Iowa Carver
Cincinnati
UMiami Miller
UCF
Dartmouth
UC Irvine
UC Davis
Tufts
Jefferson

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[Mr.Smile12]

Your non-clinical community service hours are too low for a competitive application with your metrics. Your clinical experience hours are also low relative to the application pool you want to play in.

 

[Angler]

You have a great LizzyM, and as @Mr.Smile12 says, some of your EC numbers are substandard in comparison. You will be yield protected at many schools, so you should concentrate on top schools. But to be competitive at those, buff those EC’s. CA schools are tough too, with keen competition.

If it will be hard to do this before June, consider a second gap year. You’re young

 

[Sphygmomanometer]

You have a great LizzyM, and as @Mr.Smile12 says, some of your EC numbers are substandard in comparison. You will be yield protected at many schools, so you should concentrate on top schools. But to be competitive at those, buff those EC’s. CA schools are tough too, with keen competition.

If it will be hard to do this before June, consider a second gap year. You’re young

I took my MCAT in September. Will it expire after two gap years?

 

[Sphygmomanometer]

Your non-clinical community service hours are too low for a competitive application with your metrics. Your clinical experience hours are also low relative to the application pool you want to play in.

So, is applying next cycle entirely out of the question then?

Edit: I can potentially reach about 400+ clinical volunteer hours and 150+ nonclinical volunteer hours by next May as best case (but still realistic) scenario.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You need at least 150 hours of service orientation activities such as food distribution, shelter volunteering, job/tax preparation (other than ESL), transportation services, or housing rehabilitation. To be on par with the most competitive pool of applicants, you will need at least 300-500 hours before you submit your application. You will be competing against applicants who will have worked at Americorps and racked up 2000+ hours during their gap periods. Some of your involvement ideally should be with marginalized communities different from your own.

Fundraising does not fulfill the service orientation competency.

Clinical hours as well: 50 shadowing and 100-150 clinical exposure allows your application to avoid getting screened out at most schools, but you need to look into getting at least 300-1000+ hours by submission to be on par with the applications you want to compete with. You ought to work as an EMT for your community rather than on-campus once you graduate.

Mission fit will also dictate your success in the application process.

 

[Angler]

I took my MCAT in September. Will it expire after two gap years?

You'll need to do the search. Different schools accept different MCAT dates

https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7036/download

So, is applying next cycle entirely out of the question then?

Edit: I can potentially reach about 400+ clinical volunteer hours and 150+ nonclinical volunteer hours by next May as best case (but still realistic) scenario.

No one can tell you not to apply. But I think one should try to apply with the best application possible, even if there is a delay. 150 nonclinical volunteering hours is said to be the bare minimum to avoid being screened out. It can look like you're just checking the boxes.

I'm sure that @Mr.Smile12 will also comment on mission fit. What's your story? You know you're special, but you need to look special.

 

[deleted1166920]

You need at least 150 hours of service orientation activities such as food distribution, shelter volunteering, job/tax preparation (other than ESL), transportation services, or housing rehabilitation. To be on par with the most competitive pool of applicants, you will need at least 300-500 hours before you submit your application. You will be competing against applicants who will have worked at Americorps and racked up 2000+ hours during their gap periods. Some of your involvement ideally should be with marginalized communities different from your own.

Fundraising does not fulfill the service orientation competency.

Clinical hours as well: 50 shadowing and 100-150 clinical exposure allows your application to avoid getting screened out at most schools, but you need to look into getting at least 300-1000+ hours by submission to be on par with the applications you want to compete with. You ought to work as an EMT for your community rather than on-campus once you graduate.

Mission fit will also dictate your success in the application process.

I mean they are taking one gap year. It’s hard to get in all of those hours while in undergrad and managing to do extremely well in their classes… let’s be realistic now lol.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I mean they are taking one gap year. It’s hard to get in all of those hours while in undergrad and managing to do extremely well in their classes… let’s be realistic now lol.

I'm just telling OP what a competitive applicant looks like, especially with a gap year. I can definitely give a very unrealistic profile if the OP really wanted it 🙂

 

[Sphygmomanometer]

You'll need to do the search. Different schools accept different MCAT dates

Thanks for the info.

No one can tell you not to apply. But I think one should try to apply with the best application possible, even if there is a delay. 150 nonclinical volunteering hours is said to be the bare minimum to avoid being screened out. It can look like you're just checking the boxes.

After some further deliberation, I think that I will still give it a shot for the '24-'25 cycle. I will put a great emphasis on getting more nonclinical volunteering hours for the next 6 months. I will aim for 180-200 hours. Reaching 300+ hours by May 2024 would not be possible (top 25% per LizzyM), but I'll strengthen my app as much as possible.

You need at least 150 hours of service orientation activities such as food distribution, shelter volunteering, job/tax preparation (other than ESL), transportation services, or housing rehabilitation. To be on par with the most competitive pool of applicants, you will need at least 300-500 hours before you submit your application. You will be competing against applicants who will have worked at Americorps and racked up 2000+ hours during their gap periods. Some of your involvement ideally should be with marginalized communities different from your own.

Thanks a lot for the perspective. A large portion of my hours are ESL classes for refugee/immigrant communities and some for ESL tutoring kids from those communities as well. I can obtain more hours for food distribution in addition to the several hours I have already. Is there a reason why you point out other than ESL? I opted to devote more time in volunteering for ESL classes because I find that I enjoyed teaching and this was the best way for me to interact with a diverse population among other volunteering opportunities. I initially gave up food distribution because it mostly was physical work and did not seem meaningful enough.

Clinical hours as well: 50 shadowing and 100-150 clinical exposure allows your application to avoid getting screened out at most schools, but you need to look into getting at least 300-1000+ hours by submission to be on par with the applications you want to compete with. You ought to work as an EMT for your community rather than on-campus once you graduate.

I will try to aim for 400+ EMT hours by the time I apply, but I will 100% reach 300+ hours by May 2024. The EMS organization I volunteer for does cover much of the campus, but also the surrounding community including businesses, nursing homes, clinics, etc.; so overall, I do actually get a decently diverse patient population. But I definitely agree that for my gap year I would find an EMT job covering a wider area.

Mission fit will also dictate your success in the application process.

I am having a little trouble in really grasping mission fit. I know that I'll need to play on my strengths and unique points. Do I have to be super exceptional in a particular category for mission fit? Or is elaborating what I can take away from my experiences in essays and interviews sufficient?

 

[Sphygmomanometer]

I mean they are taking one gap year. It’s hard to get in all of those hours while in undergrad and managing to do extremely well in their classes… let’s be realistic now lol.

Yeah unfortunately, applicants are getting more and more competitive each cycle. It definitely isn't easy, but I'll manage with the most I can get.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I am having a little trouble in really grasping mission fit.

Mission Fit: Key to Your Success - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Building Your Best School List - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[atriablack]

Is there a reason why you point out other than ESL?

Because in AMCAS, all teaching and tutoring goes under a category separate from non-clinical volunteering.

I have a somewhat similar app in terms of hours for everything except volunteering which I accumulated around 250 hours of. A friend (applying next cycle) is in a similar position as you and is planning on pulling long/extra shifts during winter break to bring the total number of hours up. You should consider doing that too.

I applied straight out (currently in senior year) and am on the lower side in terms of hours compared to my peers. What made my application still work out imo is a extremely strong and pointed narrative. I had three strong points and experiences for "why doctor" and my activities supported what I was saying. So if you are set on applying next cycle, trying to see what your narrative is and make sure to keep fueling those activities.

Do I have to be super exceptional in a particular category for mission fit?

No but you have to tell a clear story that allows the reader to say, "Sphygomomanometer? Yea they want to be a doctor because of X, they are passionate about impacting Y, and the type of physician they will be is Z.

 

[Sphygmomanometer]

Because in AMCAS, all teaching and tutoring goes under a category separate from non-clinical volunteering.

Can I not count it under non-clinical volunteering? The hours I put in are considered volunteering hours by my school's org. I feel like it was a meaningful experience so far and the fact that I have to do other activities just because of this technicality doesn't make much sense to me. It's a community service that really allows me to interact and learn about people.

I have a somewhat similar app in terms of hours for everything except volunteering which I accumulated around 250 hours of. A friend (applying next cycle) is in a similar position as you and is planning on pulling long/extra shifts during winter break to bring the total number of hours up. You should consider doing that too.

That's great to hear, I was thinking of the exact same thing of doing some extra shifts when I am free during winter break (likely food distribution).

I applied straight out (currently in senior year) and am on the lower side in terms of hours compared to my peers. What made my application still work out imo is a extremely strong and pointed narrative. I had three strong points and experiences for "why doctor" and my activities supported what I was saying. So if you are set on applying next cycle, trying to see what your narrative is and make sure to keep fueling those activities.

I see, I figured that a strong narrative really helps a lot in shaping your app in general. Would you mind if I PM you about the exact narrative/experiences you had for your application?

No but you have to tell a clear story that allows the reader to say, "Sphygomomanometer? Yea they want to be a doctor because of X, they are passionate about impacting Y, and the type of physician they will be is Z.

I guess this again has to do with your narrative. Thanks for the elaboration!

 

[atriablack]

Can I not count it under non-clinical volunteering? The hours I put in are considered volunteering hours by my school's org. I feel like it was a meaningful experience so far and the fact that I have to do other activities just because of this technicality doesn't make much sense to me. It's a community service that really allows me to interact and learn about people.

I hear you, but from my understanding it’s not generally done. I will leave it to someone else to confirm though since I’m not too sure myself.

Would you mind if I PM you about the exact narrative/experiences you had for your application?

Sure 🙂

 

[maltipoo17]

Hello everyone, I am a senior premed planning to apply for the next cycle (taking one gap year). I would appreciate some advice on pruning/editing my school list so far!

• cGPA: 3.98, sGPA: 3.97
• MCAT: 520 (129/130/129/132)
• California ORM
• Top 25 undergrad school
• Clinical experience:
  • Took EMT/AEMT course requiring field clinical experience for about 100 hours.
  • Currently volunteer for collegiate EMS organization with 90+ hours, anticipating at the very least 300+ volunteer hours by the time of application.
• Research:
  • Part-time 3-month virtual research for a biology lab during freshman year with a virtual poster session within the lab.
  • Joined aforementioned lab sophomore year in-person for two semesters and a 10-week summer research program (selected with stipend). Participated in program-wide poster session, total hours from the lab should be 600+ hours.
  • Currently in a new lab researching a project about cardiovascular disease and the immune system, projecting 450+ additional hours by the end of senior year and at least one poster.
• Shadowing: Currently have shadowed an interventional cardiologist for 4 hours, scheduled to shadow a CT surgeon in a few weeks. Aiming to have around 50 hrs shadowing at minimum by the end of school year.
• Non-clinical volunteering:
  • 17 hours of miscellaneous volunteering
  • 26 hours with college org hosting weekly volunteer trips to help adult ESL classes at local technical college for refugees/immigrants. Expecting to work for same organization for entire senior year with greater commitment, projecting 75+ additional hours by the time of application.
• Other extracurricular activities:
  • Currently TA for human physiology class this semester.
  • Volunteer AHA BLS/CPR instructor facilitated by university EMS organization starting this semester.
  • Secretary for a club sport starting this semester, duties cover communication with club members, record-keeping, and logistics for tournaments and club events.
  • Joined an art club that pairs researchers with artists to create art for research projects.
  • Very limited engagement in fundraising for two clinical community service clubs freshman and sophomore years.
• Relevant honors/awards: Dean's List for four semesters.

Tentative School List (may shorten):
Harvard
UCSF
Stanford
WashU
Mount Sinai
Vanderbilt
Mayo
Cornell
Pitt
Northwestern
UCLA
UCSD
Emory
CWRU/CCLCM
Colorado
USC
Virginia
Ohio State
Boston University
Rochester
Brown
Einstein
Iowa Carver
Cincinnati
UMiami Miller
UCF
Dartmouth
UC Irvine
UC Davis
Tufts
Jefferson

If you can get your EMT hours and shadowing hours up, and clearly communicate in your personal statement WHY you want to be a doctor - with excellent writing - you should definitely apply next cycle.

Above all else, schools are looking for 1.) students who will make it through medical school, pass their boards, match into residency, and make them proud as an attending physician; and 2.) a good fit in terms of who YOU are as a human being, not as someone with a certain number of hours in activities. ECs are there for you to prove to yourself (and med schools by extension) that being a medical doctor is what you truly want to do with your life, because if it’s not, there are too many places along the journey where you’ll probably quit. Traditional students (and I’m counting you as traditional because you will be in school up until you submit your primary application) don’t have enough hours in the day to accumulate the activity hours of a nontrad. Medical schools understand that. Good for you for going the EMT route. You are getting excellent clinical experience.

Spend time on researching and applying to the right schools and apply to as many as you can comfortably complete in a timely manner. Poor school list choice is a huge factor among students who don’t get invites.

Be confident in what you’ve accomplished, be authentic, and go for it!

 

[Sphygmomanometer]

If you can get your EMT hours and shadowing hours up, and clearly communicate in your personal statement WHY you want to be a doctor - with excellent writing - you should definitely apply next cycle.

Above all else, schools are looking for 1.) students who will make it through medical school, pass their boards, match into residency, and make them proud as an attending physician; and 2.) a good fit in terms of who YOU are as a human being, not as someone with a certain number of hours in activities. ECs are there for you to prove to yourself (and med schools by extension) that being a medical doctor is what you truly want to do with your life, because if it’s not, there are too many places along the journey where you’ll probably quit. Traditional students (and I’m counting you as traditional because you will be in school up until you submit your primary application) don’t have enough hours in the day to accumulate the activity hours of a nontrad. Medical schools understand that. Good for you for going the EMT route. You are getting excellent clinical experience.

Spend time on researching and applying to the right schools and apply to as many as you can comfortably complete in a timely manner. Poor school list choice is a huge factor among students who don’t get invites.

Be confident in what you’ve accomplished, be authentic, and go for it!

Thanks for the response! What are some aspects of schools that I specifically should be on the lookout for when I compile my list?