WAMC/School List help requested (4.0, 522, IN, ORM)

[cookiepearwatermelon]

---

Members don't see this ad.

4.0 GPA, 522 MCAT (132/127/132/131) - not sure if CARS score will negatively impact me or am I just being neurotic? It's not ideal but ik it could be way worse so haven't been worrying too much about it

ORM F, IN resident, trad

AMCAS already submitted and verified

Not including anticipated hours below

Undergrad - Midwest state school, Major in computer engineering, minor in biology, top 10 engineering program

Clinical Experience - 400 hrs total

• 300 hrs volunteering at local ER and urgent care over 3 years, listed as MME
• 75 hrs at COVID-19 vaccine clinic
• 25 hours at free eye clinic (international)

Non-clinical + Social Justice/Advocacy

• 200 hrs - Board of Directors at local mental health related nonprofit for 1 year (started off as volunteer, helped them start statewide initiative and was elected to board), listed as MME
• 200 hrs volunteering for 988 suicide hotline by answering calls
• 50 hrs presenting health awareness workshops at school for low income communities (international)
• 100 hours organizing donation drives for medical supplies to be donated to low income communities

Leadership

• VP of one of our campus music clubs
• VP of large club focused on world health, had many other positions over the years

Research (1500 hours), listed as MME

• 2 first author papers published in mid-impact journals (IF ~3)
• 1 more 1st author pub submitted
• 3 posters/research talks (1 at conference, 2 at undergrad symposium)
• Research-related awards at undergraduate symposium

Other Important Stuff

• Fulbright Awardee for 2024-2025 (idk how much this matters? Would really love some insight on how much schools care and how it might affect my cycle)
• Biochem TA
• Singing and performing traditional music form for 15 years, listed as artistic endeavor, >2000 hrs, talk about this a little bit in personal statement
• Shadowing 95 hrs in internal medicine, neurology, cardiology, and ENT
• Won several scholarships from undergrad university which covered all of tuition

LORs

• 1 from research PI (pretty strong)
• 1 non-science letter from engineering prof who I've discussed my research with (pretty strong)
• 1 science letter from biochem prof I was TA for and whose class I took (idk probably somewhere between good and strong)
• 1 from bio prof whose class I took (probably decent)
• 1 from grad student who I worked with for 2 years, in the middle of which she graduated and now works in industry (hopefully strong)

Here's my school list in no particular order. Is it too top-heavy? I tried to have some lower/mid tiers but not sure if I have enough. I already have a lot of schools so don't want to add too many more but I will if necessary. Are there any schools I'm applying to that are pointless? Also wanted to mention not planning on taking PREview or CASPer (Indiana just made decision to remove CASPer requirement woohoo!) Would really appreciate feedback. Also lmk if any other info needed. Thanks in advance for your time!

Indiana (in-state option), Northwestern, UChicago, Stanford, Harvard, Icahn Mt Sinai, Jefferson, USF, Cincinnati, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, WashU, Pitt, UMich, USCD, UCSF, Tufts, OSU, Keck, NYU, U of Illinois, U of Iowa, U of Maryland, Vanderbilt, Cornell, Yale, Albert Einstein, Carle Illinois (I've got the prereqs), Case Western (plus Cleveland Clinic), Columbia, Duke, Emory, Dartmouth, U of Rochester, U of Virginia, U of Wisconsin

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome to the forums?

What are you doing for your Fulbright?

I have made the notation in the Casper required list regarding IUSOM. Be aware if you apply to some of the schools on your list, you may have to do Recorded Video Interviews (WashU at least) so while I understand dodging PREview and Casper, you may be faced with alternative versions.

Preparing for Recorded Interviews: RVI Survey Insights | SDN

Since 2020, applicants for health professional programs have had to prepare for online and on-campus interview formats. While the public is focused on

www.studentdoctor.net

Your actual "contact hours" in non-clinical community service/service orientation activities still seems lower than the 150 hour threshold for most medical schools. Maybe some of your other hours could count, but typically Crisis Text Line is still not face-to-face enough for many adcoms compared to doing similar work at a shelter. You may make that up a bit with your Fulbright, but having some involvement in the US always has more value.

Yes, I think some of the top brand schools on your list might not be obvious fits to me; how do you align with their mission, and what is your purpose as a physician that requires you to attend those schools?

 

[cookiepearwatermelon]

Welcome to the forums?

What are you doing for your Fulbright?

I have made the notation in the Casper required list regarding IUSOM. Be aware if you apply to some of the schools on your list, you may have to do Recorded Video Interviews (WashU at least) so while I understand dodging PREview and Casper, you may be faced with alternative versions.

Preparing for Recorded Interviews: RVI Survey Insights | SDN

Since 2020, applicants for health professional programs have had to prepare for online and on-campus interview formats. While the public is focused on

www.studentdoctor.net

Your actual "contact hours" in non-clinical community service/service orientation activities still seems lower than the 150 hour threshold for most medical schools. Maybe some of your other hours could count, but typically Crisis Text Line is still not face-to-face enough for many adcoms compared to doing similar work at a shelter. You may make that up a bit with your Fulbright, but having some involvement in the US always has more value.

Yes, I think some of the top brand schools on your list might not be obvious fits to me; how do you align with their mission, and what is your purpose as a physician that requires you to attend those schools?

Thank you for your advice!

I'm aware of the recorded video interviews, I just decided not to take CASPer because I was only taking it for IU, so since they stopped requiring it, seems like a waste of time which I could instead use pre-writing secondaries.

I did not do crisis text line. I took phone calls for the 988 suicide and crisis hotline, very often dealing with suicidal callers and working a lot on de-escalation and safety planning. I had to undergo extensive training to be equipped to do this, and I would say that while it is not literally face-to-face, I would think it still counts as "contact hours". I also definitely elaborated more on this in my app, so this confusion should not arise.

I should have probably elaborated on Fulbright my bad, I won a research grant (don't want to say where or give too many details on my project as that would make it really easy for me to be doxxed) but my project is on bringing AI-based medical imaging from the lab to clinical settings.

I don't want to post my whole personal statement here lol but I think I have a unique background to equip me to conduct fairly unconventional research in medical technology (which I have already been doing). Combined with a reasonably strong research background and impactful leadership positions, this is why I have some top schools on my list, thought I would shoot my shot lol. But would appreciate it if you could please elaborate on which ones you think might not be a good fit. Do you think I should remove the T20s? And which ones might be better to apply to instead.

 

[Faha]

You have a good list and should receive several interviews.

 

[cookiepearwatermelon]

You have a good list and should receive several interviews.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond! I wasn't sure if I'm applying too top-heavy, but this certainly provides some perspective. Though this is pretty much the opposite of @Mr.Smile12's reply so now I'm really confused! Based on that do you think I'm better off replacing some of the super elite schools in my list like Harvard, NYU, etc. with others? Potentially Virginia Tech and UA Phoenix come to mind. Or do you think I should apply to those two or similar schools in addition to my current list?

 

[Faha]

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond! I wasn't sure if I'm applying too top-heavy, but this certainly provides some perspective. Though this is pretty much the opposite of @Mr.Smile12's reply so now I'm really confused! Based on that do you think I'm better off replacing some of the super elite schools in my list like Harvard, NYU, etc. with others? Potentially Virginia Tech and UA Phoenix come to mind. Or do you think I should apply to those two or similar schools in addition to my current list?

You could receive interviews at any of the schools you are applying to with your stats. You could add Hofstra and Boston University.

 

[cookiepearwatermelon]

You could receive interviews at any of the schools you are applying to with your stats. You could add Hofstra and Boston University.

Thank you so much for your time! I really appreciate it. These are great suggestions! The only reason I haven't included them is because I ended up not taking the CASPer test once I learned IU is not requiring it, but looks like it may be worth reconsidering on that so I can apply to these.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond! I wasn't sure if I'm applying too top-heavy, but this certainly provides some perspective. Though this is pretty much the opposite of @Mr.Smile12's reply so now I'm really confused! Based on that do you think I'm better off replacing some of the super elite schools in my list like Harvard, NYU, etc. with others? Potentially Virginia Tech and UA Phoenix come to mind. Or do you think I should apply to those two or similar schools in addition to my current list?

My concerns are not focused on stats but rather mission fit. I've been involved in too many file deliberations and rubric creation where Mission Fit determines if or how soon you get an offer among high-stat candidates. This is what frustrates many high-metric applicants when their mailboxes aren't overflowing with II's. Maybe yours will, but I don't see cause for that from your description (and to be fair, it's what you put on your AMCAS and secondaries, which we won't encourage you to share in a public internet forum).

Mission Fit: Key to Your Success | SDN

Every application cycle, applicants request expert reviews on the Student Doctor Network to help them assess “What Are My Chances” (WAMC) at getting

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I don't want to post my whole personal statement here lol but I think I have a unique background to equip me to conduct fairly unconventional research in medical technology (which I have already been doing). Combined with a reasonably strong research background and impactful leadership positions, this is why I have some top schools on my list, thought I would shoot my shot lol. But would appreciate it if you could please elaborate on which ones you think might not be a good fit. Do you think I should remove the T20s? And which ones might be better to apply to instead.

So here is where I will ask you to consider your homework. Which schools on your list will support you in what you want to do with your research experience? The world of incorporating med tech into the clinic is broad but will not be taught in medical school. How teachable are you in areas that are going to be outside this area where you clearly have expertise?

You'll have many adcoms wondering why not just take some time in industry or in a research path where you can become more expert in the unconventional research you are excited to do. The role of a medical school admissions committee is to train people to become doctors who take care of patients admitted to their teaching hospitals (and go through residency, fellowship, etc.). It may be a bit different if you applied MD/PhD provided the PhD portion addresses graduate programs that have experience teaching medical students with interests similar to yours.

If part of your interest is to be more immersed in the challenges the healthcare system has as barriers to effective care, that may be a different discussion that may not necessarily require your engineering/highly quantitative background, but having it may help you.

 

[cookiepearwatermelon]

My concerns are not focused on stats but rather mission fit. I've been involved in too many file deliberations and rubric creation where Mission Fit determines if or how soon you get an offer among high-stat candidates. This is what frustrates many high-metric applicants when their mailboxes aren't overflowing with II's. Maybe yours will, but I don't see cause for that from your description (and to be fair, it's what you put on your AMCAS and secondaries, which we won't encourage you to share in a public internet forum).

Mission Fit: Key to Your Success | SDN

Every application cycle, applicants request expert reviews on the Student Doctor Network to help them assess “What Are My Chances” (WAMC) at getting

www.studentdoctor.net

This definitely makes sense, mission fit is of course super important. Many of the T20s have research and leadership listed as top priorities in their mission, and since I feel research is one of the most prominent parts of my app considering hours spent and publications (not sure if others agree on this though), I thought I might try applying to some T20s. But totally understand what you're saying, and mission fit does go far beyond these factors. Based on this, are there any specific schools you would recommend swapping, I'd really appreciate your recommendation

 

[Mr.Smile12]

This definitely makes sense, mission fit is of course super important. Many of the T20s have research and leadership listed as top priorities in their mission, and since I feel research is one of the most prominent parts of my app considering hours spent and publications (not sure if others agree on this though), I thought I might try applying to some T20s. But totally understand what you're saying, and mission fit does go far beyond these factors. Based on this, are there any specific schools you would recommend swapping, I'd really appreciate your recommendation

Since I don't know your research better than you, and you know your collegial peers in your distinct area of interest, you will have a better idea which schools could stay on your list provided they give you access to opportunities for student scholarship (research year/entrepreneurship and IP mentoring). (I'm trying not to doxx you, man!)

 

[cookiepearwatermelon]

So here is where I will ask you to consider your homework. Which schools on your list will support you in what you want to do with your research experience? The world of incorporating med tech into the clinic is broad but will not be taught in medical school. How teachable are you in areas that are going to be outside this area where you clearly have expertise?

You'll have many adcoms wondering why not just take some time in industry or in a research path where you can become more expert in the unconventional research you are excited to do. The role of a medical school admissions committee is to train people to become doctors who take care of patients admitted to their teaching hospitals (and go through residency, fellowship, etc.). It may be a bit different if you applied MD/PhD provided the PhD portion addresses graduate programs that have experience teaching medical students with interests similar to yours.

If part of your interest is to be more immersed in the challenges the healthcare system has as barriers to effective care, that may be a different discussion that may not necessarily require your engineering/highly quantitative background, but having it may help you.

You bring up very fair points on why I pursued the academic path that I did. It hopefully makes more sense in my app since I explained it in my personal statement. Don't want to go too into detail into my exact research, but every radiology department of medical schools I've been looking at when writing my secondaries have at least one MD-led lab that conducts research in the same area as mine. At T20s, this tends to be several different labs and extends across different departments. Additionally, I've written about how I want to focus my knowledge not only on developing the technology, but on bringing the technology from the lab to clinical practice, which often does require at least some technical knowledge. Once again, would love some suggestions on which schools I could swap.

Also so sorry for sidetracking but did you end up seeing my reply on non-clinical volunteer hours? Based on my clarification do you think my suicide hotline volunteering (over phone, not text) would be considered?

Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful insights. You've taken a lot of time and really made me think about my motivations, so appreciate the feedback!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Also so sorry for sidetracking but did you end up seeing my reply on non-clinical volunteer hours? Based on my clarification do you think my suicide hotline volunteering (over phone, not text) would be considered?

I saw it. I think with respect to crisis hotlines --- phone or text-based or Facetime for all I know --- the issue is face-to-face assistance in helping someone in distress. I find it's very worthwhile and helps oral communication/empathy-compassion competencies, but in the grand scheme of file deliberations among med school adcom faculty, face-to-face always has more value than connections via phone/text, telehealth trends notwithstanding. As mentioned, it helps address oral communication and empathy-compassion, but not service orientation to many adcoms I have had to advocate to.