wanting to match in chicago

[alletst]

So i really want to match in Chicago more than anything and now is the time to be sending apps for my away rotations. Does anyone have suggestions about where I am likely to be noticed more? Obviously NWU and U of Chicago are the big names, but will i get better letters from places like Rush or UIC? Or is a standard letter from a big school better than a personal letter from a smaller name school? HELP!

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[VentdependenT]

Any of the places you mentioned should be fine. Just be sure to do simple things when you are there to land yourself a letter:

1) Try and read some stuff each night. 45-60 min should cut it. Read (out of "baby miller" or secrets) the IV induction agents section, Neuromuscular blocking/reversal agents section, and something about Rapid Sequence/Modified Rapid Sequence before you start. Then you'll have some idea of what the hell is going on during induction. You DONT have to memorize the stuff. Just check it out.

2) Ask the resident what questions are important for a preop and why. Then, after a few days, PREOP the next patient while the resident is in the case. You'll be loved. The resident will go over the preop with ya.

3) Watch a couple of IV's go in. Have the resident show ya. Then PUT THE IV IN for the next case. If you can't get it, no big deal. By the end of the rotation you'll be an IV stud.

4) Don't bolt out the door at 11am. Stick around to the oh so late hour of 2 o'colock PM. Unless you are in a "wicked awsome" case most residents will cut ya loose by then.

5) When the patient gets in the room help the resident PUT THE MONITORS/ARMBOARDS on. Ask where the leads go if ya dont know. You do this and you'll be loved.

If you do the above, before you know it you will be gettin to do tons of inductions, intubations, art lines, get to fiddle with the machine, get to extubate, place LMA's etc.

6) Ask the residents who you should get a letter from and who is fun to work with. Who is active in the ASA/ABA or well known/liked locally? If need be, take one CALL when that attending is on. Try to get into his/her room a few times.

Don't be afraid to ask the PD or Residency Director for a letter if you felt you kicked some butt and weren't a ghost. The worst they can say is no. Big deal.

I've had some really good students and I loved teaching them (or at least trying to). Once I see they do the above I try and let em do as much as they are comfortable with. I also try to put in a good word with some of the attendings whom I feel would write em a good letter. Hopefully someone will do the same for you guys.

Lastly don't be afraid to ask questions if you don't know. I'm not just talking about academic stuff. Im talking about stuff like:
How the hell do you prime an IV or drip
How the hell does this stop cock work
How do you pull back blood on an a-line
Wheres these leads go
How do you draw up drugs (seriously, I blew open bottle caps and spilled propofol all over the friggen place my first few days)
How the F&%K does this stupid bair hugger go on?


You get the point.

 

[alletst]

Thanks a lot vent...maybe i will be seeing you at rush sometime soon

 

[NRAI2001]

Any of the places you mentioned should be fine. Just be sure to do simple things when you are there to land yourself a letter:

1) Try and read some stuff each night. 45-60 min should cut it. Read (out of "baby miller" or secrets) the IV induction agents section, Neuromuscular blocking/reversal agents section, and something about Rapid Sequence/Modified Rapid Sequence before you start. Then you'll have some idea of what the hell is going on during induction. You DONT have to memorize the stuff. Just check it out.

2) Ask the resident what questions are important for a preop and why. Then, after a few days, PREOP the next patient while the resident is in the case. You'll be loved. The resident will go over the preop with ya.

3) Watch a couple of IV's go in. Have the resident show ya. Then PUT THE IV IN for the next case. If you can't get it, no big deal. By the end of the rotation you'll be an IV stud.

4) Don't bolt out the door at 11am. Stick around to the oh so late hour of 2 o'colock PM. Unless you are in a "wicked awsome" case most residents will cut ya loose by then.

5) When the patient gets in the room help the resident PUT THE MONITORS/ARMBOARDS on. Ask where the leads go if ya dont know. You do this and you'll be loved.

If you do the above, before you know it you will be gettin to do tons of inductions, intubations, art lines, get to fiddle with the machine, get to extubate, place LMA's etc.

6) Ask the residents who you should get a letter from and who is fun to work with. Who is active in the ASA/ABA or well known/liked locally? If need be, take one CALL when that attending is on. Try to get into his/her room a few times.

Don't be afraid to ask the PD or Residency Director for a letter if you felt you kicked some butt and weren't a ghost. The worst they can say is no. Big deal.

I've had some really good students and I loved teaching them (or at least trying to). Once I see they do the above I try and let em do as much as they are comfortable with. I also try to put in a good word with some of the attendings whom I feel would write em a good letter. Hopefully someone will do the same for you guys.

Lastly don't be afraid to ask questions if you don't know. I'm not just talking about academic stuff. Im talking about stuff like:
How the hell do you prime an IV or drip
How the hell does this stop cock work
How do you pull back blood on an a-line
Wheres these leads go
How do you draw up drugs (seriously, I blew open bottle caps and spilled propofol all over the friggen place my first few days)
How the F&%K does this stupid bair hugger go on?


You get the point.

Hey Vent, I noticed you re from AZCOM. I m currently doing my masters at RFU in north chicago.....if i dont get into RFU i am considering going to Midwestern (CCOM)..

My question is how well do DOs fare when applying to anesth. programs? Obviously you re in an anesth. program, but are you some kind of a stud.. or do DOs not face too much discrimination?

 

[VentdependenT]

I am definitely no stud or I'd have my own HBO sitcom with the cash & mango colored ferrari to show for it.

Plenty of DO's in anesthesia. For what reasons, I don't know, and I don't care. Point is that the overwhelming majority of programs will accept DO's. A few won't. A competitive applicant is competitive for many reasons. Rack up as many points as you can and you'll get a desireable spot.

 

[nvshelat]

Just wanted to say thanks for the excellent post!

 

[gaspasser2004]

For any letter, I think the quality of what is written is far more important than who is writing it. So many people try to get letters from "famous" people and wind up with second rate form letters that anyone can see right through. The anesthesia community is small enough that if you present a letter from a "celebrity" to a program, someone may call that person up and get a blank response when they mention your name. The best letters come from those who truly know you and have worked with you over a long period of time. A personal, glowing, genuine letter from a lowly assistant professor beats a form letter from a widely known full professor/chairman every day of the week.

 

[bullard]

So i really want to match in Chicago more than anything and now is the time to be sending apps for my away rotations. Does anyone have suggestions about where I am likely to be noticed more? Obviously NWU and U of Chicago are the big names, but will i get better letters from places like Rush or UIC? Or is a standard letter from a big school better than a personal letter from a smaller name school? HELP!

I think a personal letter from anywhere is better than a standard letter from a top program. Ideally, you should shoot for a personal letter from a top program.

Also, NWU likes ranking highly people who do well on their 4th year rotatons here.

 

[GassiusClay]

U of Chicago = quite a popular one among their own students, and all of them tend to stay rather than go elsewhere except this last year I believe. That says a lot about a program. I just don't get why people don't give it credit as deserved. It's not MGH or JHU, but I also like programs that keep me sane over 3 years and probably can get you a good fellowship.

UIC = popular probably because the hours are very resident friendly. I hear the interview process doesn't really show this off so only the away rotators get the real scoop. However, the OR director can be quite intimidating if you don't get on his good side.

NWMH = hardwork but no one lied about that so I like that. I hate programs who downplay the level of intensity just to attract people to their programs, and then pull a "bait-n-switch." NW is pretty honest.

Rush = I don't know much except a fellow at my institution was from there and hated the residency. That may have changed. Best to PM VentDependent since he is in it.

Loyola = no clue. Not really popular amongst interviewers. Once again, my take on it.

Cook County and Illinois Masonic = FMG or those who switched out desperately looking for another residency.

Overall, NWMH and U of Chicago will probably get you the best chance towards a fellowship. U of Cs chair is the president-elect of ASA so he probably has good connections to get you what you want after CA-3 year. I assume that is important for many out there.

I ENCOURAGE out of towners to apply to Chicago programs since you will be surprised on what they have to offer. Chicago has its appeal especially if you come from a climate that actually has snow. It's not bad at all except like 2 weeks in Feb. And unlike many other big cities in the US, we aren't rude and act like we're the only thing that matters on the planet (NYC...cough, cough).

 

[VentdependenT]

I have yet to meet one resident, in any program, who "totally loved residency." Its hard work, as it should be, I suppose.

 

[ideas]

I know you said an hour of baby miller or secrets should cut it. . . would you suggest one over the other?

Thanks

Any of the places you mentioned should be fine. Just be sure to do simple things when you are there to land yourself a letter:

1) Try and read some stuff each night. 45-60 min should cut it. Read (out of "baby miller" or secrets) the IV induction agents section, Neuromuscular blocking/reversal agents section, and something about Rapid Sequence/Modified Rapid Sequence before you start. Then you'll have some idea of what the hell is going on during induction. You DONT have to memorize the stuff. Just check it out.

2) Ask the resident what questions are important for a preop and why. Then, after a few days, PREOP the next patient while the resident is in the case. You'll be loved. The resident will go over the preop with ya.

3) Watch a couple of IV's go in. Have the resident show ya. Then PUT THE IV IN for the next case. If you can't get it, no big deal. By the end of the rotation you'll be an IV stud.

4) Don't bolt out the door at 11am. Stick around to the oh so late hour of 2 o'colock PM. Unless you are in a "wicked awsome" case most residents will cut ya loose by then.

5) When the patient gets in the room help the resident PUT THE MONITORS/ARMBOARDS on. Ask where the leads go if ya dont know. You do this and you'll be loved.

If you do the above, before you know it you will be gettin to do tons of inductions, intubations, art lines, get to fiddle with the machine, get to extubate, place LMA's etc.

6) Ask the residents who you should get a letter from and who is fun to work with. Who is active in the ASA/ABA or well known/liked locally? If need be, take one CALL when that attending is on. Try to get into his/her room a few times.

Don't be afraid to ask the PD or Residency Director for a letter if you felt you kicked some butt and weren't a ghost. The worst they can say is no. Big deal.

I've had some really good students and I loved teaching them (or at least trying to). Once I see they do the above I try and let em do as much as they are comfortable with. I also try to put in a good word with some of the attendings whom I feel would write em a good letter. Hopefully someone will do the same for you guys.

Lastly don't be afraid to ask questions if you don't know. I'm not just talking about academic stuff. Im talking about stuff like:
How the hell do you prime an IV or drip
How the hell does this stop cock work
How do you pull back blood on an a-line
Wheres these leads go
How do you draw up drugs (seriously, I blew open bottle caps and spilled propofol all over the friggen place my first few days)
How the F&%K does this stupid bair hugger go on?


You get the point.

 

[starsop93]

I ENCOURAGE out of towners to apply to Chicago programs since you will be surprised on what they have to offer. Chicago has its appeal especially if you come from a climate that actually has snow. It's not bad at all except like 2 weeks in Feb. And unlike many other big cities in the US, we aren't rude and act like we're the only thing that matters on the planet (NYC...cough, cough).

Where's this "Chicago"?

 

[GassiusClay]

Where's this "Chicago"?

Funny indeed...but I actually met people on the interview trail who were oblivious to the midwest. They knew Chicago was by the lake in Illinois, but had no perception of how far it was from them...something buried in the middle of the country. These were coastal people.

 

[VentdependenT]

I know you said an hour of baby miller or secrets should cut it. . . would you suggest one over the other?

Thanks

Baby miller should come first. But it is difficult to integrate that information clinically during your med school rotation. Secrets helps you cross that bridge. Once I knew I was going into anesthesiology (after about 2 weeks) I just bought secrets and started reading a little bit of it each day.

Then if there was a case comming up, I'd crack open the secrets and read up on it. Hell of a lot faster read than baby miller.

After the pharm stuff go over things like: Oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve, what the pa02 50% is, why letting sats drop to 90 is dangerous, etc. Pulmonary section, cardiovascular section, and Neurosection. Don't even bother going to a neuro room before at least looking at the graph depicting Cerebral Blood Flow to MAP, CO2, and Po2. Should take just a few minutes but you'll look like a stud.

simple way to remember what Pao2 leads to what pulse ox sat (spo2)
Pao2 Spo2%
60 90
50 80
40 70

 

[ideas]

I am thinking of using Miller over my two anesthesia electives (reading half of it during the first one and the rest during the second one). Do you think NMS will help keep me on my toes for the everyday stuff while I'm combing through miller? I'm not really interested in buying a ton of books until I know I'm 100% going into the field.

 

[BISof60]

I agree with all of Vent's points. Also, COME EARLY to set up the room/talk about the anesthetic plan/preop the pt with the resident. There's alot more time to talk about the anesthetic plan when setting up the room in the morning than in the busy preop area. It's not tough to get noticed on an anesthesia rotation: COME EARLY, SHOW INTEREST, READ a little bit.

I interviewed at all the Chicago programs except Cook County.

Rush and Loyola are great training programs. They obviously don't have the academic reputations of UChicago or NW, but don't discount those programs. They are strong.

 

[SleepIsGood]

Want a more academic environment
-U of C, NWU

Want a more real private practice type places with attendings that have worked in PP and have a lot of real world PP experience. These hospitals are located in a very nice area and the hospitals have a lot of insured patients where you will see a lot of elective procedures.
-Rush, Illinois Masonic (only Trauma 1 center in Chicago proper aside from Cook County).

Want all FMGs?
-Cook County

 

[ketafol]

Want a more academic environment
-U of C, NWU

Want a more real private practice type places with attendings that have worked in PP and have a lot of real world PP experience. These hospitals are located in a very nice area and the hospitals have a lot of insured patients where you will see a lot of elective procedures.
-Rush, Illinois Masonic (only Trauma 1 center in Chicago proper aside from Cook County).

Want all FMGs?
-Cook County

I would say that NWU is not very academic, we were even told this at the interview. It is very clinically solid however. Also, Mt. Sinai and NWU are Level 1's as well, U of C is a ped's Level 1.

 

[GBFKicks]

U of Chicago = quite a popular one among their own students, and all of them tend to stay rather than go elsewhere except this last year I believe. That says a lot about a program. I just don't get why people don't give it credit as deserved. It's not MGH or JHU, but I also like programs that keep me sane over 3 years and probably can get you a good fellowship.

UIC = popular probably because the hours are very resident friendly. I hear the interview process doesn't really show this off so only the away rotators get the real scoop. However, the OR director can be quite intimidating if you don't get on his good side.

NWMH = hardwork but no one lied about that so I like that. I hate programs who downplay the level of intensity just to attract people to their programs, and then pull a "bait-n-switch." NW is pretty honest.

Rush = I don't know much except a fellow at my institution was from there and hated the residency. That may have changed. Best to PM VentDependent since he is in it.

Loyola = no clue. Not really popular amongst interviewers. Once again, my take on it.

Cook County and Illinois Masonic = FMG or those who switched out desperately looking for another residency.

Overall, NWMH and U of Chicago will probably get you the best chance towards a fellowship. U of Cs chair is the president-elect of ASA so he probably has good connections to get you what you want after CA-3 year. I assume that is important for many out there.

I ENCOURAGE out of towners to apply to Chicago programs since you will be surprised on what they have to offer. Chicago has its appeal especially if you come from a climate that actually has snow. It's not bad at all except like 2 weeks in Feb. And unlike many other big cities in the US, we aren't rude and act like we're the only thing that matters on the planet (NYC...cough, cough).

I don't want to get flamed here, because this isn't a "what are my chances" questions. I would, however, like to know how competitive these programs are. Can the Average Joe applicant match in Chicago?

 

[SandmanMD]

So i really want to match in Chicago more than anything and now is the time to be sending apps for my away rotations. Does anyone have suggestions about where I am likely to be noticed more? Obviously NWU and U of Chicago are the big names, but will i get better letters from places like Rush or UIC? Or is a standard letter from a big school better than a personal letter from a smaller name school? HELP!

I don't mean to thread jack...but this goes along with the topic at hand.

If one were to pick a single program in Chicago to do an away rotation, which would you recommend? Does a LOR from one program carry more weight than others? I personally was trying to decide between Rush, Loyola and UIC...kinda leaning towards Rush because I hear I will get a real honest experience and get exposure to more complicated cases.

 

[amyl]

i think you should do aways at a school you want to match at...not to get letters to impress other programs, just mho. you have a better chance to match if you get to know people personally. search for interview reviews... the past few years compiled probably puts together a pretty comprehensive list of many residency programs.

 

[skittlesUofM]

I agree with above, I thought letters would be so important during the interview process. I am from the midwest and I did an away rotation in NYC. When I was interviewing at other programs in NYC I could tell that they did not read my letters cause they were suprised when I told them I had already done an away rotation at a nearby hospital.

So long story short.....pick your away based on where you would like to go for residency. If you really want to go to northwestern, don't do an away at UofC just cause you think you will get a letter.

If you do an away rotation, you can meet the right people, make a good impression and then have a number of people say "yeah I know this kid, he/she is great." Which is far more important than "ohh look I see they have a letter from a nearby institution that we don't even like"

My impression thru the past interview season, people notice board scores WAY more than letters, unless they know the writer personally. Like they happen to be neighboors.

 

[speicte]

Do your away-rotation at the institution you want to go. Show initiative and enthusiasm. First couple of days, talk to residents to find out which attendings are on the admissions committee and align yourself with one of them for a letter. Arrive early and stay late each day. Read up.

If you want to go to another area of the country then I feel you it is very important to do an away in that area. I am in medical school in Chicago, but want to get out West for residency. So, I did an away rotation in California and the schools out West noted that in my interview. One of the first questions interviewing at programs in California was 'why do you want to come to California?". If you don't have family ties or a legitimate reason to held out west, then I feel they won't rank you highly, but that may be a West-specific thing...

 

[Ferdie]

I thought Secrets was a GREAT book. So easy to read, and if you just read the section that's pertinent to your next day's cases, you're going to look like a superstar, guaranteed.