Warning: This Is A Rant, Feel Free To Move On....

[hans19]

To any one who is purely chasing money and lifestyle.: The money is still decent (So I hear-- I haven't seen any of it, I'm still in residency), but the lifestyle has definitely changed. Please do yourself and us all a favor and stay out of radiology. Those are the types that slack in residency and dump sh-- on their fellow residents. Call in sick a little too many times. You make it sh--ty for everyone else. When the money dries up, you won't be happy either.

There is already a shortage of radiology man power only a certain number of residents trained per year. We need people who are willing to work hard and not cut and run early everyday.

If it were up to me I would rather take a candidate with lower numbers or class rank with LORs that demonstrate a proven work ethic, than some AOA 260's hot shot that feels entitled to what ever residency he/she chooses. [Not to say that some with low grades and boards don't have low scores because of laziness, or that those with AOA and high grades are lazy, the majority are not]

Conversely I think that programs should make their rank lists longer, or risk getting embarrased by unfilled spots. Sure rads is great but it doesn't have the star power of derm or plastics.

Radiology is still the best field (IMO), but you will have to work harder for your money than before. There are turf issues like never before. The 'free lunch' atmosphere is long gone. We have to bust our asses in radiology like everyone else in medicine. Get used to it.

To those who are truly interested in radiology, I welcome you and wish you luck in the applications process. (I was there not too long ago).

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[DHMO]

Right on Hans!

 

[deciding]

I support you 100%. Even in medical school you can tell who the slackers are. I know of several people that want to go into Rad or Derm just because they think the lifestyle is great and they can spend three days a week golfing while just reading films at home and making tons of cash. I think your message should be applied to each field. There should be no laziness in medicine as what many people often forget is that we are taking care of another persons life either directly or indirectly depending on the field. Make the wrong read and you may provide the opportunity for cancer to spread from a localized lesion. Make the wrong choice in medicine and someone may die. We should remember to take what we do seriously and do it with the utmost responsibility and ability.

 

[poloace]

i completely agree with hans. also, the market is nice now- but, when things start to shift (as they cyclically do) and you go into this field because of the cash... you're going to be miserable. good call, hans. yo- when is the borat movie coming out? 'I'm bringing SEXY TIME back...'

 

[thackl]

What do you define as lazy. I'm a hard worker, never call in, never dump my crap on others...... but the goal once established is 50hrs/wk. I want to enjoy a life outside of medicine.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

To any one who is purely chasing money and lifestyle.: The money is still decent (So I hear-- I haven't seen any of it, I'm still in residency), but the lifestyle has definitely changed. Please do yourself and us all a favor and stay out of radiology. Those are the types that slack in residency and dump sh-- on their fellow residents. Call in sick a little too many times. You make it sh--ty for everyone else. When the money dries up, you won't be happy either.

There is already a shortage of radiology man power only a certain number of residents trained per year. We need people who are willing to work hard and not cut and run early everyday.
If it were up to me I would rather take a candidate with lower numbers or class rank with LORs that demonstrate a proven work ethic, than some AOA 260's hot shot that feels entitled to what ever residency he/she chooses. [Not to say that some with low grades and boards don't have low scores because of laziness, or that those with AOA and high grades are lazy, the majority are not]

Conversely I think that programs should make their rank lists longer, or risk getting embarrased by unfilled spots. Sure rads is great but it doesn't have the star power of derm or plastics.

Radiology is still the best field (IMO), but you will have to work harder for your money than before. There are turf issues like never before. The 'free lunch' atmosphere is long gone. We have to bust our asses in radiology like everyone else in medicine. Get used to it.

To those who are truly interested in radiology, I welcome you and wish you luck in the applications process. (I was there not too long ago).

So you're saying..The lack of residents will assure ample money and good lifestyle for years to come?

 

[colbgw02]

So you're saying..The lack of residents will assure ample money and good lifestyle for years to come?

actually, i think the lack of residents will assure ample money and a crappy lifestyle for years to come.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

actually, i think the lack of residents will assure ample money and a crappy lifestyle for years to come.

touche

 

[jon62781]

I love that post!

Being someone who is commited to getting into rads without the great numbers, I have been forced to rely on my work ethic.....

It just still kinda sucks that while everyone looking at this agrees, PD's are still focusing on the numbers, and not what kind of resident they are going to get!

HANS FOR PRESIDENT, 08!

 

[allyn666]

I think the quality of residents has diminished significantly in recent years. As university programs gobbled up and closed down community programs the number of slots has diminished, allowing program directors to be very selective in who they accept. The result is that the intelligence and/or obsessiveness of new radiologists has increased, at the significant cost of losing individuals who belong in the field. Many, and perhaps most "slackers" are not really lazy, they have simply chosen the wrong field. You need at least some pattern recognition ability to be an accurate radiologist. I have met a number of recent grads with no such abilities at all. This results in them having to look at imaging studies the same way they did the first time they saw one, evaluating each organ and image de novo. Because of this it takes forever for them to read a study, and even then they are poor quality interpretations. This causes them to read as few studies as possible, so that their exposure to error is reduced. Until someone comes up with a test that will show if someone has at least some pattern recognition abilities, and until the program directors are willing to expand the pool of applicants they look at, I think the end product of radiology programs is going to continue to deteriorate.

 

[sepsis]

I think the quality of residents has diminished significantly in recent years. As university programs gobbled up and closed down community programs the number of slots has diminished, allowing program directors to be very selective in who they accept. The result is that the intelligence and/or obsessiveness of new radiologists has increased, at the significant cost of losing individuals who belong in the field. Many, and perhaps most "slackers" are not really lazy, they have simply chosen the wrong field. You need at least some pattern recognition ability to be an accurate radiologist. I have met a number of recent grads with no such abilities at all. This results in them having to look at imaging studies the same way they did the first time they saw one, evaluating each organ and image de novo. Because of this it takes forever for them to read a study, and even then they are poor quality interpretations. This causes them to read as few studies as possible, so that their exposure to error is reduced. Until someone comes up with a test that will show if someone has at least some pattern recognition abilities, and until the program directors are willing to expand the pool of applicants they look at, I think the end product of radiology programs is going to continue to deteriorate.

I don't think that anyone gets enough experience to know that they have that 'ability' in 1 month of rads during M4 enough to say 'aha, I will make a good radiologist'.

I don't buy your argument.

I think a better test is whether or not they can say honestly 'i really like this'.

 

[colbgw02]

I don't think that anyone gets enough experience to know that they have that 'ability' in 1 month of rads during M4 enough to say 'aha, I will make a good radiologist'.

I don't buy your argument.

I think a better test is whether or not they can say honestly 'i really like this'.

i tend to agree.

if someone goes into radiology even though they prefer a different field, then that is a different issue. if they are lazy, then that is a separate issue as well.

i haven't done a poll or anything like that, but my gut feeling is that most radiologists would say that they can teach pattern recognition. just like a surgeon says that they can teach someone how to sew. there will, of course, be a spectrum of abilities, but the vast majority of folks can learn the relevant skills in order to be proficient

sure, there will be the occassional surgery or radiology resident who simply doesn't get it and won't be able to sew or read a study regardless. but if someone isn't cutting it, then my bet is on laziness or disinterest.

 

[cliffhanger]

I think a different way of stating it is that some folks become interested in radiology because it seems to click for them... in many cases because of a visual knack or "pattern detection" ability. Similarly, some go into surgery b/c they're good with small tools or psych b/c they're patient and insightful (crazy). Obviously these abilities aren't prerequisites to be successful in the field, but they can certainly help a person feel like they were born to practice in particular fields.

 

[allyn666]

I will have to conditionally agree with Sepsis and definately agree with Cliffhanger. One month is way to short for most to know whether or not you have the proper brain hardwiring to be a reasonable radiologist. For some, however, it will just click from the outset. My complaint is that there is absolutely no question in my mind that someone with 190 Step one scores and innate ability will be a far, far superior radiologist than someone with a 260 and no pattern recognition ability. And one can safely be assumed to be independent of the other. Also, this knack can be safely assumed to be evenly spread across all medical students. Therefore, by excluding the bottom 80% (or so) of medical students by refusing to even grant interviews you are guaranteeing that 80% of those who would be truly excellent radiologists are excluded, and that abysmal high scorers take their place. Of course, those high scorers with the innate ability should really be something.

 

[sepsis]

I will have to conditionally agree with Sepsis and definately agree with Cliffhanger. One month is way to short for most to know whether or not you have the proper brain hardwiring to be a reasonable radiologist. For some, however, it will just click from the outset. My complaint is that there is absolutely no question in my mind that someone with 190 Step one scores and innate ability will be a far, far superior radiologist than someone with a 260 and no pattern recognition ability. And one can safely be assumed to be independent of the other. Also, this knack can be safely assumed to be evenly spread across all medical students. Therefore, by excluding the bottom 80% (or so) of medical students by refusing to even grant interviews you are guaranteeing that 80% of those who would be truly excellent radiologists are excluded, and that abysmal high scorers take their place. Of course, those high scorers with the innate ability should really be something.

I see now and agree and must add that it's really too bad that there's not some other kind of criteria. Having rec'd low boards myself I can only hope it was my winning smile that got me through... or that pesky away rotation to the progam I eventually matched.

anyway, can't let it get you down can you, the apps have been trending down since two years ago.

 

[colbgw02]

I will have to conditionally agree with Sepsis and definately agree with Cliffhanger. One month is way to short for most to know whether or not you have the proper brain hardwiring to be a reasonable radiologist. For some, however, it will just click from the outset. My complaint is that there is absolutely no question in my mind that someone with 190 Step one scores and innate ability will be a far, far superior radiologist than someone with a 260 and no pattern recognition ability. And one can safely be assumed to be independent of the other. Also, this knack can be safely assumed to be evenly spread across all medical students. Therefore, by excluding the bottom 80% (or so) of medical students by refusing to even grant interviews you are guaranteeing that 80% of those who would be truly excellent radiologists are excluded, and that abysmal high scorers take their place. Of course, those high scorers with the innate ability should really be something.

i see your point and i think it's a valid one. but the assumption you're making is that people go into the specialty they're good at instead of the one they enjoy. people say i would make a good internist, but i'd blow my brains out before i ever got board certified. similarly, you can't assume that of the 80% (or so) with the "innate radiology gene" who are currently being excluded that enough of them would choose radiology.

 

[allyn666]

Actually, I am only assuming that an unknown "some" of them would choose radiology. My lament is that, as things currently stand, they will not even consider the field, being told by everyone that they have no chance to get in. And even if they decide to try to buck the trend, they probably wouldn't match. Think how nice is would be if the worst 10% of radiologists were replaced by really excellent radiologists. I know this would not neccessarily happen if everyone was given an equal chance, but even a smaller percentage replacement would be nice.

As far as the scores coursing downward, at the two medical schools in one eastern seaboard state the average Step 1 scores for those who matched in Radiology were First and Second of all specialties selected.