WARNING to all Canadian IMG's participating in US Match - Re: J1 Visa and the Statement of Need!

[Psoralin]

This is a warning to all Canadian IMG's planning to participate in the 2015 US Match with regards to the J1 Visa and the Statement of Need.

Most Canadian IMG's falsely believe that getting a J1 Visa is simply a formality if they succeed in Matching into a US Residency program - this is NOT TRUE!

A requirement for the J1 Visa is that you obtain a Statement of Need from your country of citizenship which states that the specialty you Match into is needed in your country. What most Canadian IMG's do not realize is that Canada sets a Quota for certain specialties for the SoN, and that they give the Statements out on a first-come first-served basis starting on Match Day.

Not only that, but last year Canada did not release their List of Needed Specialties affected by the quota until November 7th, almost a full two months after the US Match opened on September 15th. By that time most students have already started to receive interview invitations and it's obviously far too late for anybody to change their application profile. I have spoken with other Canadian IMG's who in previous years had the quota for the specialty they were applying in set to ZERO, effectively shutting them out before they even had a chance. Here is a link to the list that was put out last year:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/alt_formats/pdf/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/cat_b-list-liste-eng.pdf

My wife and I couples matched into Radiology this year and were denied the SoN by Health Canada and the Ministry of Health in Ontario on the basis that the quota of FIVE was exceeded for the whole country, and that there was no identified need for additional radiologists. This is despite the fact that a study put out by the Ministry of Health in Ontario identified Radiology as the specialty to be MOST in need through 2030. My wife and I spent an entire month fighting to get our statements having to prove that there was in fact a need by collecting emails from different hospitals in the province stating they had trouble hiring radiologists.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ed-for-radiology-residency-in-the-us.1064145/

We were just two of many other Canadian IMG's who were denied their SoN after Matching into very competitive medical residency programs. Do not let this happen to you, and do not take for granted that just because there was an unlimited quota for a particular specialty last year, there wont be a quota this year.

If you are reading this, please forward this message to all Canadian IMG's in your program planning to apply to the US Match so they can have ample warming about this potential catastrophe. After all your hard work and sacrifice you stand to lose everything because of heartless bureaucrats and their political BS to limit the number of doctors that return to Canada.

Contact your provincial Ministry of Health and Health Canada and let them know this practice is grossly unacceptable and there needs to be change in the way the Statements of Need are administered and handed out. There needs to be transparency in how the quotas are determined (they don't provide any evidence as to how they determine their numbers). There also needs to be ample time given to medical students to see what the quota is and to plan accordingly, not two months after the application period has already started.

Please please please forward this message and spread the word to your fellow Canadian IMG's so they do not suffer the same fate from this flawed system.

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[NewCanadian]

...

I trust you sent your recommendations for improvement.

 

[Psoralin]

Because the people who ignored us for a month would actually listen? I appreciate your optimism. If they make any changes they will only make things worse not better.

 

[NewCanadian]

Because the people who ignored us for a month would actually listen? I appreciate your optimism. If they make any changes they will only make things worse not better.

I believe you know about SMART goals and objectives.
http://www.projectsmart.co.uk/smart-goals-objectives.php

If you were to propose something along that line, chances are they would be taken into consideration.
A rant like your post above is unlikely to get what you want.

 

[Psoralin]

I'm going to concentrate my efforts on being a good doctor. Enjoy your life.

 

[mohamm46]

Hey OP: I have been following your case with some interest now...I will applying for a residency in 2016 and it was brought to my attention yesterday about the limits on J1. It a ridiculous practice - rather dumb I think. How can 5 J1s be enough for an entire country. Talk at fragmented health care - both for the patient and for the provider. Nonetheless, I read in one of your other posts that you did manage to get a SoN....did you get a J1 too? If yes, how? If not, what are your alternates?

For me what this really means is that 5 years ago, when I decided to be a physician, I should have somehow magically know to look for Canada's J1 limitations. Rather nonsensical I think.

 

[Psoralin]

The SoN was the requirement I was missing in order to get my J1 from the United States - so once I was able to adequately convince the bureaucrats that there was a need for radiologists in Canada they provided the SoN and I was able to get my J1 Visa from the US.

And you're right, if Canada had it their way IMG's would look at their quota and adjust their applications to match, except they don't release the quota until two months after you've already applied which is insane.

 

[lemur123]

The SoN was the requirement I was missing in order to get my J1 from the United States - so once I was able to adequately convince the bureaucrats that there was a need for radiologists in Canada they provided the SoN and I was able to get my J1 Visa from the US.

And you're right, if Canada had it their way IMG's would look at their quota and adjust their applications to match, except they don't release the quota until two months after you've already applied which is insane.

Hi Psoralin, thanks for your posts. Who specifically did you need to convince that there's a need for radiologists in Canada and how did you do this? I will be applying next cycle as a Canadian AMG and would love some advice about getting a J1 visa. Thanks!

 

[Psoralin]

Hi Psoralin, thanks for your posts. Who specifically did you need to convince that there's a need for radiologists in Canada and how did you do this? I will be applying next cycle as a Canadian AMG and would love some advice about getting a J1 visa. Thanks!

We needed to convince The Ministry of Health in Ontario because they were the ones to endorse us to Health Canada. We basically got in touch with every hospital in the province to see if they had a need for radiologists until we found one. It was absolutely ridiculous. As I mentioned before, this was despite the MoH's own report that predicted the specialty most in need by 2030 would be radiologists.

As well, this was also a load of crap because the SoN is for the country as a whole, but you're dependent on your province of residence to get it which makes absolutely no sense.

 

[bennz10]

This is a warning to all Canadian IMG's planning to participate in the 2015 US Match with regards to the J1 Visa and the Statement of Need.

Most Canadian IMG's falsely believe that getting a J1 Visa is simply a formality if they succeed in Matching into a US Residency program - this is NOT TRUE!

A requirement for the J1 Visa is that you obtain a Statement of Need from your country of citizenship which states that the specialty you Match into is needed in your country. What most Canadian IMG's do not realize is that Canada sets a Quota for certain specialties for the SoN, and that they give the Statements out on a first-come first-served basis starting on Match Day.

Not only that, but last year Canada did not release their List of Needed Specialties affected by the quota until November 7th, almost a full two months after the US Match opened on September 15th. By that time most students have already started to receive interview invitations and it's obviously far too late for anybody to change their application profile. I have spoken with other Canadian IMG's who in previous years had the quota for the specialty they were applying in set to ZERO, effectively shutting them out before they even had a chance. Here is a link to the list that was put out last year:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/alt_formats/pdf/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/cat_b-list-liste-eng.pdf

My wife and I couples matched into Radiology this year and were denied the SoN by Health Canada and the Ministry of Health in Ontario on the basis that the quota of FIVE was exceeded for the whole country, and that there was no identified need for additional radiologists. This is despite the fact that a study put out by the Ministry of Health in Ontario identified Radiology as the specialty to be MOST in need through 2030. My wife and I spent an entire month fighting to get our statements having to prove that there was in fact a need by collecting emails from different hospitals in the province stating they had trouble hiring radiologists.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ed-for-radiology-residency-in-the-us.1064145/

We were just two of many other Canadian IMG's who were denied their SoN after Matching into very competitive medical residency programs. Do not let this happen to you, and do not take for granted that just because there was an unlimited quota for a particular specialty last year, there wont be a quota this year.

If you are reading this, please forward this message to all Canadian IMG's in your program planning to apply to the US Match so they can have ample warming about this potential catastrophe. After all your hard work and sacrifice you stand to lose everything because of heartless bureaucrats and their political BS to limit the number of doctors that return to Canada.

Contact your provincial Ministry of Health and Health Canada and let them know this practice is grossly unacceptable and there needs to be change in the way the Statements of Need are administered and handed out. There needs to be transparency in how the quotas are determined (they don't provide any evidence as to how they determine their numbers). There also needs to be ample time given to medical students to see what the quota is and to plan accordingly, not two months after the application period has already started.

Please please please forward this message and spread the word to your fellow Canadian IMG's so they do not suffer the same fate from this flawed system.

 

[bennz10]

This is sadly factual and has been ongoing for quite some time. I matched to a Pediatrics residency in the US and was denied a Statement back in 2012. The MOH's quota was 200 for any and all subspecialities/fellowships that year and I was applicant 202. That said after fighting with the ministry they issued an additional 25 statements.

Be warned all Canadian grads and IMGs planning on pursuing residency in the United States. If they aren't willing to give you a statement in the first place your chances of paving your way back home are slim. Trust me I am contending with this very issue of having a very useless diploma, vast amounts of debt and no career prospects back in Ontario on the horizon.

 

[NewCanadian]

This is sadly factual and has been ongoing for quite some time. I matched to a Pediatrics residency in the US and was denied a Statement back in 2012. The MOH's quota was 200 for any and all subspecialities/fellowships that year and I was applicant 202. That said after fighting with the ministry they issued an additional 25 statements.

Be warned all Canadian grads and IMGs planning on pursuing residency in the United States. If they aren't willing to give you a statement in the first place your chances of paving your way back home are slim. Trust me I am contending with this very issue of having a very useless diploma, vast amounts of debt and no career prospects back in Ontario on the horizon.

O my. It would be easy to figure out the truthiness of this. If a new poster uses part of their real name in their forum name, google is avaiable. No one was denied a statement for pediatrics in that year (Source: health canada.)

 

[BDUS]

This is a warning to all Canadian IMG's planning to participate in the 2015 US Match with regards to the J1 Visa and the Statement of Need.

Most Canadian IMG's falsely believe that getting a J1 Visa is simply a formality if they succeed in Matching into a US Residency program - this is NOT TRUE!

A requirement for the J1 Visa is that you obtain a Statement of Need from your country of citizenship which states that the specialty you Match into is needed in your country. What most Canadian IMG's do not realize is that Canada sets a Quota for certain specialties for the SoN, and that they give the Statements out on a first-come first-served basis starting on Match Day.

Not only that, but last year Canada did not release their List of Needed Specialties affected by the quota until November 7th, almost a full two months after the US Match opened on September 15th. By that time most students have already started to receive interview invitations and it's obviously far too late for anybody to change their application profile. I have spoken with other Canadian IMG's who in previous years had the quota for the specialty they were applying in set to ZERO, effectively shutting them out before they even had a chance. Here is a link to the list that was put out last year:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/alt_formats/pdf/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/cat_b-list-liste-eng.pdf

My wife and I couples matched into Radiology this year and were denied the SoN by Health Canada and the Ministry of Health in Ontario on the basis that the quota of FIVE was exceeded for the whole country, and that there was no identified need for additional radiologists. This is despite the fact that a study put out by the Ministry of Health in Ontario identified Radiology as the specialty to be MOST in need through 2030. My wife and I spent an entire month fighting to get our statements having to prove that there was in fact a need by collecting emails from different hospitals in the province stating they had trouble hiring radiologists.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ed-for-radiology-residency-in-the-us.1064145/

We were just two of many other Canadian IMG's who were denied their SoN after Matching into very competitive medical residency programs. Do not let this happen to you, and do not take for granted that just because there was an unlimited quota for a particular specialty last year, there wont be a quota this year.

If you are reading this, please forward this message to all Canadian IMG's in your program planning to apply to the US Match so they can have ample warming about this potential catastrophe. After all your hard work and sacrifice you stand to lose everything because of heartless bureaucrats and their political BS to limit the number of doctors that return to Canada.

Contact your provincial Ministry of Health and Health Canada and let them know this practice is grossly unacceptable and there needs to be change in the way the Statements of Need are administered and handed out. There needs to be transparency in how the quotas are determined (they don't provide any evidence as to how they determine their numbers). There also needs to be ample time given to medical students to see what the quota is and to plan accordingly, not two months after the application period has already started.

Please please please forward this message and spread the word to your fellow Canadian IMG's so they do not suffer the same fate from this flawed system.

I couldn't accept a peds nephrology position for this reason..

 

[BDUS]

I couldn't accept a peds nephrology position for this reason..

2015 List of Needed Specialties and Subspecialties - for issuing Statements of Need

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/cat_b-list-liste-eng.php

 

[NewCanadian]

nephrology has never been a priority need anyway. that information has been public for a long time. if you applied in the US for nephrology, it was your mistake.

 

[Psoralin]

nephrology has never been a priority need anyway. that information has been public for a long time. if you applied in the US for nephrology, it was your mistake.

Absolutely WRONG! It's not their mistake at all! The fact is that the List of Needed Specialties was released AFTER people applied to Pediatric Nephrology fellowships (or every other residency listed) so the mistake is on Health Canada as it always has been!

How were they to know how many Statements of Need would be released this year? I truly cannot stand your deferral of blame back to the medical students and residents when it is Health Canada that is behind all the problems with the Statement of Need program.

 

[BDUS]

Absolutely WRONG! It's not their mistake at all! The fact is that the List of Needed Specialties was released AFTER people applied to Pediatric Nephrology fellowships (or every other residency listed) so the mistake is on Health Canada as it always has been!

How were they to know how many Statements of Need would be released this year? I truly cannot stand your deferral of blame back to the medical students and residents when it is Health Canada that is behind all the problems with the Statement of Need program.

The numbers aren't predictable. For instance in 2014 wasn't the number of ped Endo spots unlimited? This year there is only a couple.

 

[Psoralin]

I couldn't accept a peds nephrology position for this reason..

People have successfully challenged Health Canada about this exact same issue in the past where they have set a quota for a particular residency or fellowship to zero AFTER the application period has already opened when it is too late for any applicant to do anything about it. If you still have an opportunity to pursue that Fellowship I would consider appealing for your Statement of Need on those grounds. You can message me for more specifics if you like.

The fact that every year the List of Needed Specialties is released months after the US Match opens for applicants shows how out of touch and unwilling Health Canada is to change their process despite the fact that year after year they ruin peoples lives with their ridiculous administration of the Statement of Need Program. They show no humanity in the process and the whole program could not be more un-Canadian if you tried.

 

[Medstart108]

People have successfully challenged Health Canada about this exact same issue in the past where they have set a quota for a particular residency or fellowship to zero AFTER the application period has already opened when it is too late for any applicant to do anything about it. If you still have an opportunity to pursue that Fellowship I would consider appealing for your Statement of Need on those grounds. You can message me for more specifics if you like.

The fact that every year the List of Needed Specialties is released months after the US Match opens for applicants shows how out of touch and unwilling Health Canada is to change their process despite the fact that year after year they ruin peoples lives with their ridiculous administration of the Statement of Need Program. They show no humanity in the process and the whole program could not be more un-Canadian if you tried.

Bureaucracy... If this was a company, this issue would've been fixed after day one.

 

[NewCanadian]

OTE="BDUS, post: 16185178, member: 671619"]The numbers aren't predictable. For instance in 2014 wasn't the number of ped Endo spots unlimited? This year there is only a couple.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely WRONG! It's not their mistake at all! The fact is that the List of Needed Specialties was released AFTER people applied to Pediatric Nephrology fellowships (or every other residency listed) so the mistake is on Health Canada as it always has been!

How were they to know how many Statements of Need would be released this year? I truly cannot stand your deferral of blame back to the medical students and residents when it is Health Canada that is behind all the problems with the Statement of Need program.

The comment was about nephrology in particular. Nephrology has been 'off the list' for several years. it is public knowledge that nephrology is not supported at all and will not be supported in the future. This is public knowledge, and it is not new information. program directors for nephrology in the US were informed by the ministries of health several years ago.

You persist in blaming health canada yet you know very well the rules are not made by health canada.

 

[Psoralin]

This is public knowledge, and it is not new information.

By all means, please provide everybody following this thread with links to this public knowledge about the need for Pediatric Nephrology and every other medical specialty across Canada so that medical students and residents can plan effectively for the years to come when choosing medical specialties.

Does the Public Knowledge you're referring to include things like the 2010 MOHLTC Needs Based Physician Simulation Model? The report that stated Radiology would be the specialty MOST in need in Ontario through 2030, but then some how the quota was set to 5 for the whole country last year, and for some reason this year it's 20. If I was reading that report in 2010 and planning four years in advance to plan my career I would have thought it would be no problem to get a Statement of Need for Radiology but apparently I was very wrong.

So please show us all this widely available "Public Knowledge" you speak of so nobody should ever encounter problems with the Statement of Need program ever again. We'll be waiting patiently...

 

[Psoralin]

You persist in blaming health canada yet you know very well the rules are not made by health canada.

Because Health Canada only administers the Statement of Need program right? They have no power to dictate what information provinces make available or when right? And that's why the List of Needed Specialties is released late every year right? Because Health Canada has no power to invoke any changes about the administration of the program they administer right?

 

[NewCanadian]

By all means, please provide everybody following this thread with links to this public knowledge about the need for Pediatric Nephrology and every other medical specialty across Canada so that medical students and residents can plan effectively for the years to come when choosing medical specialties.

Does the Public Knowledge you're referring to include things like the 2010 MOHLTC Needs Based Physician Simulation Model? The report that stated Radiology would be the specialty MOST in need in Ontario through 2030, but then some how the quota was set to 5 for the whole country last year, and for some reason this year it's 20. If I was reading that report in 2010 and planning four years in advance to plan my career I would have thought it would be no problem to get a Statement of Need for Radiology but apparently I was very wrong.

So please show us all this widely available "Public Knowledge" you speak of so nobody should ever encounter problems with the Statement of Need program ever again. We'll be waiting patiently...

"Does the Public Knowledge you're referring to include things like the 2010 MOHLTC Needs Based Physician Simulation Model?" I don't know anything about that report. The comment was about nephrology only.

 

[NewCanadian]

Because Health Canada only administers the Statement of Need program right? They have no power to dictate what information provinces make available or when right? And that's why the List of Needed Specialties is released late every year right? Because Health Canada has no power to invoke any changes about the administration of the program they administer right?

That's correct.

 

[TR4N23MED]

Sorry, wrong thread...

 

[chronic32]

The system is a complete disaster. I'll be facing this situation head on as a Canadian at a USMD matching in 2016.

I am so f***ing scared. I'm not even worried about matching as I'm a strong candidate. But the fact that they pulled unlimited endorsement for my chosen specialty (EM), now only sponsor 4 year programs (WTF?!), and it's too late for me to change makes things a living nightmare! They JUST released this list a couple days ago. I applied for and accepted away rotations in EM back in April. That's when the decision for your specialty is made at the latest, NOT in mid-JULY of 4th year!!! I can't change my specialty now! ERAS opens September 15! And even if I were to change, what would I switch to? They pulled unlimited endorsement for family medicine even!!! If I matched family medicine, I wouldn't even be able to go to my Match Day ceremony. I'd have to sit at home smashing refresh on my NRMP page until the match report came up, then quickly copy/paste the page to my email with all the other application material to the J1 SoN office, then hit send before the 300 other Canadians who matched family med do. That or face a devastating situation where I matched and I'm not endorsed by my country to train and come home.

Seriously, does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? I'm pissing my pants right now. At this point Health Canada has f***ed me out of my chosen field which they had unlimited endorsement for just a week ago, and now ANYTHING I choose is a gamble. I risk being stranded with an MD, a matched program for training, but no endorsement from my home country.

 

[Fatalis]

The system is a complete disaster. I'll be facing this situation head on as a Canadian at a USMD matching in 2016.

I am so f***ing scared. I'm not even worried about matching as I'm a strong candidate. But the fact that they pulled unlimited endorsement for my chosen specialty (EM), now only sponsor 4 year programs (WTF?!), and it's too late for me to change makes things a living nightmare! They JUST released this list a couple days ago. I applied for and accepted away rotations in EM back in April. That's when the decision for your specialty is made at the latest, NOT in mid-JULY of 4th year!!! I can't change my specialty now! ERAS opens September 15! And even if I were to change, what would I switch to? They pulled unlimited endorsement for family medicine even!!! If I matched family medicine, I wouldn't even be able to go to my Match Day ceremony. I'd have to sit at home smashing refresh on my NRMP page until the match report came up, then quickly copy/paste the page to my email with all the other application material to the J1 SoN office, then hit send before the 300 other Canadians who matched family med do. That or face a devastating situation where I matched and I'm not endorsed by my country to train and come home.

Seriously, does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? I'm pissing my pants right now. At this point Health Canada has f***ed me out of my chosen field which they had unlimited endorsement for just a week ago, and now ANYTHING I choose is a gamble. I risk being stranded with an MD, a matched program for training, but no endorsement from my home country.

Same boat as you, I was torn between IM and FM now I guess its FM bc there are more SoN available.
Personally it is pathetic, as you said, that 1 week ago securing a SoN wasnt an issue now its gonna play out exactly how you stated, essentially waiting by the computer to send the app in before everyone else did.
Icing on the cake: I find this out 1 week before I take step 2 ck lol

 

[chronic32]

We're so f*cked bro.

 

[Fatalis]

We're so f*cked bro.

lets hope they screwed up the numbers and just provide the SoN

 

[chronic32]

Are there are data or reports out there regarding how many Canadians applied for SoNs in each specialty? I feel like this information needs to be published just like CARMS and NRMP publishes match data. People are able to gauge their competitiveness against the field and make a calculated risk and informed decision for their specialty choice, however the lack of information from Health Canada makes it impossible to know where you stand. I mean if you worked your butt off in med school and have the stats you might have a 99% chance to match into Family Med or Internal, but who knows what your chances of SoN sponsorship are given the first-come, first-served method of distributing SoNs. Is it 90%? 75%? 50%? Will 30% of Canadians who match into family med in the US this year be stranded without a SoN? This is absurd! The situation Health Canada has put us in is ludicrous. It's Orwellian.

It's crystal clear the bureaucrats have decided: "We don't want Canadians dipping out to the Caribbean, Ireland, Australia, or even the United States for medical school anymore if they can't get into Canadian ones because they're saturating our single-payer health system and it's getting too expensive. Our economy has gone to ****, our dollar is crashing, we've cut interest rates again, and we can't afford to improve or expand infrastructure for more specialists or even GPs beyond those trained by our own Canadian medical institutions. So despite our major doctor shortages which will continue into the coming decade, we're putting a hard cap on how many Canadians can train in the US. The rest of you - *middle finger*."

 

[Medstart108]

Are there are data or reports out there regarding how many Canadians applied for SoNs in each specialty? I feel like this information needs to be published just like CARMS and NRMP publishes match data. People are able to gauge their competitiveness against the field and make a calculated risk and informed decision for their specialty choice, however the lack of information from Health Canada makes it impossible to know where you stand. I mean if you worked your butt off in med school and have the stats you might have a 99% chance to match into Family Med or Internal, but who knows what your chances of SoN sponsorship are given the first-come, first-served method of distributing SoNs. Is it 90%? 75%? 50%? Will 30% of Canadians who match into family med in the US this year be stranded without a SoN? This is absurd! The situation Health Canada has put us in is ludicrous. It's Orwellian.

It's crystal clear the bureaucrats have decided: "We don't want Canadians dipping out to the Caribbean, Ireland, Australia, or even the United States for medical school anymore if they can't get into Canadian ones because they're saturating our single-payer health system and it's getting too expensive. Our economy has gone to ****, our dollar is crashing, we've cut interest rates again, and we can't afford to improve or expand infrastructure for more specialists or even GPs beyond those trained by our own Canadian medical institutions. So despite our major doctor shortages which will continue into the coming decade, we're putting a hard cap on how many Canadians can train in the US. The rest of you - *middle finger*."

So far for IM and FM you are pretty safe, they tend to have unlimited SoNs.

 

[Fatalis]

So far for IM and FM you are pretty safe, they tend to have unlimited SoNs.

Did you not see the numbers that they posted? They are only giving out 300 FM and 200IM

 

[chronic32]

So far for IM and FM you are pretty safe, they tend to have unlimited SoNs.

The link right now is wrong, it's to the 2015 list. The 2016 list which you can view on the actual page took away unlimited endorsement. That's the problem! 295 FM 200 IM. Who knows how many will match into each, I'm guessing more, a lot more.

 

[IMvrach]

I think this number should be pretty close to the number of Canadians studying medicine abroad divided by 4 (years in a program). Quick search shows http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/too-many-canadians-studying-medicine-overseas-1.993980 that in 2011 there were 3500 of them. Sure, it's more now. (From 2006 to 2011 the number had doubled)

I'm applying for fellowship now, thought about switching from H1B to J1. Not anymore.

Are there are data or reports out there regarding how many Canadians applied for SoNs in each specialty? I feel like this information needs to be published just like CARMS and NRMP publishes match data. ."

 

[Fatalis]

I think this number should be pretty close to the number of Canadians studying medicine abroad divided by 4 (years in a program). Quick search shows http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/too-many-canadians-studying-medicine-overseas-1.993980 that in 2011 there were 3500 of them. Sure, it's more now. (From 2006 to 2011 the number had doubled)

I'm applying for fellowship now, thought about switching from H1B to J1. Not anymore.

I don't think it's enough spots for the amount of people. I wonder how they crunched these numbers

 

[Hyde]

What am I missing? Why do you Canadians want to do residencies in the USA? Do you want to practice here? Or do you want to get your specialty training here and then go back to Canada?

 

[Dredge]

We want to do residency in the U.S. For a lot of reasons. The main one being though, is that it tends to be a bit easier to get a residency spot in the states. At least, historically it used to be.

 

[TR4N23MED]

For IM (200 Canadian SoN) I would venture and say about 35% of all candidates would be coming from USMD/DO and 65% from abroad. My guess would be that approx. 90 pple from USMD/DO and 230 pple from abroad, leaving a lot of candidates w/o an SoN...

 

[Hyde]

We want to do residency in the U.S. For a lot of reasons. The main one being though, is that it tends to be a bit easier to get a residency spot in the states. At least, historically it used to be.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Funny I have been thinking of finishing my training in the US and then moving to Canada. Straight up socialized medicine. No insurance company middle men. No ambulance chasing lawyers. Homogeneous patient population comparatively speaking. Low crime rates. Interesting cities like Toronto, Vancouver. etc etc

 

[Medstart108]

The link right now is wrong, it's to the 2015 list. The 2016 list which you can view on the actual page took away unlimited endorsement. That's the problem! 295 FM 200 IM. Who knows how many will match into each, I'm guessing more, a lot more.

Wow thats a big problem, this is a bit ridiculous. I believe that if you are Canadian going to the US for residency you shouldn't be stopped by the Canadian government. I'm sure a good number won't ever come back to Canada to practice in the first place. I can see why they do it because they want to control the supply of doctors in Canada. Maybe they could ask you to sign a waiver saying you won't come back to Canada and you can get a J1 without hassle, but i'm not sure if that would be constitutional to stop a Canadian with qualifying US residency from working in Canada, my guess is probably not.

 

[Dredge]

@Medstart108 is right, it is ridiculous. However if we abolished the SoN the states wouldn't even let you do your residency considering we aren't citizens. Residencies are for US citizens only. The only reason they take us is because of those SoNs. Initially this statement of need business started in the 40s or 50s to let underdeveloped countries train their doctors in the states then go back home. It was part of (and still is, I think) USAID. Obviously it's since developed to include 1st world countries as well. If Canada starts sending everyone, then the U.S. government will probably just start saying no to a lot of us if not all lol

 

[NewCanadian]

The system is a complete disaster. I'll be facing this situation head on as a Canadian at a USMD matching in 2016.

I am so f***ing scared. I'm not even worried about matching as I'm a strong candidate. But the fact that they pulled unlimited endorsement for my chosen specialty (EM), now only sponsor 4 year programs (WTF?!), and it's too late for me to change makes things a living nightmare! They JUST released this list a couple days ago. I applied for and accepted away rotations in EM back in April. That's when the decision for your specialty is made at the latest, NOT in mid-JULY of 4th year!!! I can't change my specialty now! ERAS opens September 15! And even if I were to change, what would I switch to? They pulled unlimited endorsement for family medicine even!!! If I matched family medicine, I wouldn't even be able to go to my Match Day ceremony. I'd have to sit at home smashing refresh on my NRMP page until the match report came up, then quickly copy/paste the page to my email with all the other application material to the J1 SoN office, then hit send before the 300 other Canadians who matched family med do. That or face a devastating situation where I matched and I'm not endorsed by my country to train and come home.

Seriously, does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? I'm pissing my pants right now. At this point Health Canada has f***ed me out of my chosen field which they had unlimited endorsement for just a week ago, and now ANYTHING I choose is a gamble. I risk being stranded with an MD, a matched program for training, but no endorsement from my home country.

while there is a number limit for family medicine, it is more than enough to cover the expected number of requests for family medicine. (notes from a conversation with the administrator at health canada.)

as for emergency medicine, I would suggest you get in touch with the RCPSC or visit its website to see what the requirements for for emergency medicine. five years are required. then, contact the credentials unit, and ask them how you would meet its requirements with a three year program. how would you get two more years of training in emergency medicine and would they satisfy the RCPSC. ask RCPSC: 1 year internship, 3 years em, 1 year ACGME fellowship - would that work?

 

[NewCanadian]

The link right now is wrong, it's to the 2015 list. The 2016 list which you can view on the actual page took away unlimited endorsement. That's the problem! 295 FM 200 IM. Who knows how many will match into each, I'm guessing more, a lot more.

notes from a conversation with the admin at health Canada: the number limit for IM and FM are high; more than enough, and more than the number of requests in the past few years.

Addendum:
I checked my scribbled notes from that very short conversation with the admin at health canada.
up to 2011, there were less than 100 successful requests for family medicine.
in 2012, there were more than 100 and less than 150
in 2013 and 2014, she said there were around 150
in 2015, she said there were just under 200 requests.
Personally, I have no clue as to how the limit of just under 300 for 2016 was chosen, but it seems more than enough for what is expected.

 

[Fatalis]

notes from a conversation with the admin at health Canada: the number limit for IM and FM are high; more than enough, and more than the number of requests in the past few years.

Just asking, this is a credible source? Like you spoke with them directly or are you speculating? I was wondering where they drew these numbers from [obivously had to have some data] and now you are saying that we should be covered, i.e they put a number that should compensate majority of us?

 

[NewCanadian]

Just asking, this is a credible source? Like you spoke with them directly or are you speculating? I was wondering where they drew these numbers from [obivously had to have some data] and now you are saying that we should be covered, i.e they put a number that should compensate majority of us?

do you mean me as a credible source or the admin at health canada?
if me, then, you are free to take what I write as you wish.
You are also free to contact the admin directly, and ask questions.

Addendum: anyone can ask questions to the health canada email [email protected]. anyone can send questions to the oversight committee which came up with the changes.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/prov-terr-cont-eng.php

 

[Qester]

@NewCanadian how would I determine how many SON were given out in a certain speciality in the preceding years? Is the j1visa email appropriate to contact regarding this?

 

[NewCanadian]

@NewCanadian how would I determine how many SON were given out in a certain speciality in the preceding years? Is the j1visa email appropriate to contact regarding this?

that is their email, so why not use that one. remember there is an oversight committee, so why not email them as well.

i'm not sure though knowing how many letters were issued in 2009 for neurology would help you.

if you ask some questions, make sure the questions are precise so you get a meaningful answer.

 

[chronic32]

notes from a conversation with the admin at health Canada: the number limit for IM and FM are high; more than enough, and more than the number of requests in the past few years.

Addendum:
I checked my scribbled notes from that very short conversation with the admin at health canada.
up to 2011, there were less than 100 successful requests for family medicine.
in 2012, there were more than 100 and less than 150
in 2013 and 2014, she said there were around 150
in 2015, she said there were just under 200 requests.
Personally, I have no clue as to how the limit of just under 300 for 2016 was chosen, but it seems more than enough for what is expected.

This is *slightly* reassuring. Thank you NewCanadian for looking into this with your connections.

 

[TR4N23MED]

Well I've contacted each admin in their respective provincial department of health and Health Canada (using the links NewCanadian provided) to confirm everything. I'll reply once I get responses...

 

[stevesteve123]

For IM (200 Canadian SoN) I would venture and say about 35% of all candidates would be coming from USMD/DO and 65% from abroad. My guess would be that approx. 90 pple from USMD/DO and 230 pple from abroad, leaving a lot of candidates w/o an SoN...

230 from abroad? What the Fck? where are they doing their residency?

there is no fcking way that 230 Canadian are doing FM in the US on J1 every year