Warren Alpert (Brown) vs CCLCM

[allycat92]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi folks! I feel incredibly blessed to be at a point where I can choose between two of my top-choice medical schools. Genuinely loved my interviews at both, and based on what I've heard about Brown's need-based aid, I believe my COA will be about the same at each school (paying indirect costs eg housing, food for 4 vs. 5 years). Most of my family and friends are in the South and California, so location isn't a differentiating factor either. Both schools have insane match lists akin to a "T10."

FWIW, I'm fairly set on going the academic physician-investigator route (though more clinical/translational over basic research), and I am very undecided on a specialty (currently interested in ophtho, ENT, neurology, psych, IM). I'm also an LGBTQ+ Black woman, and diversity and queer community matter a lot for my mental health.

Warren Alpert (Brown): est. ~$120-140K debt
Pros

• Providence seems like a perfect town to me - artsy, cozy, and quaint, and also not too far from Boston/NYC
• Students genuinely seemed SO happy & non-competitive at interview day
• Only med school in RI - relatively easy access to clinical and research opportunities & mentorship
• Women and Infants and the Butler Hospital -- I'm primarily interested in reproductive health and psych, but that could definitely change in medical school
• Greater respect among the general public?

Cons

• Approx. a third of the class is PLMEs - could throw off the social vibe?
• Not much of a research powerhouse, at least compared to the Cleveland Clinic -- would have to put in the work to find strong mentors and structure time for research from M1. The clinical research scholarly concentration might facilitate that?
• AOA before match...

Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine (CCLCM): est. ~$150K debt
Pros

• No exams ??! (+ no AOA) --> less stress & more flexibility to prep for Step 1?
• Small class size - genuinely think I would love the tight-knit feel of a 32-person class and VERY low student:faculty ratio (again, mentorship)
• Love the culture of peer feedback and constant self-reflection
• PBL learning style seems fun and genuinely more useful than the traditional lecture style for me
• Very intentional physician-investigator training aligned with my goals
• The Cleveland Clinic is an amazing institution --> greater respect within medicine?

Cons

• "Cleveland is Cleveland..."
• I don't love driving, but could try to live close to Cleveland Clinic or just suck it up
• Mandatory 5th year for research - may not be valuable if I choose psych/IM in the end
• Mandatory class attendance

Summary: To me, this feels like a toss-up based on location, research infrastructure, and the mandatory 5th year at CCLCM. I would probably be happier in Providence, but don't want to discount the Cleveland Clinic rep, especially since I realize name & foundational research training might make a huge difference in an academic med career.

Would appreciate any insights or comments on other factors worth considering 🙂

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hold on... CCLCM is a tuition-free program. How did you get your calculation? Accreditation requires them to list all of their costs, but you don't pay tuition.

Cleveland is Cleveland, but it's affordable and the river hasn't burned since the 60's. Very strong LGBTQ+ support because Cleveland is a lot more blue than most of the rest of Ohio. Northeast Ohio has its history tied with Connecticut, so you might be surprised how similar it feels to live in Cleveland. (CWRU school colors == Yale school colors).

You can live reasonably close to Cleveland and rely on various shuttles, but that's no different than any other school. Of course, where you live around the Clinic... just like many East Coast schools, some of the nearby neighborhoods are challenging, but the Clinic is a significant source of community charity and is actively addressing SDOH disparities. Cleveland near the CWRU campus (University Circle) definitely nurtures artsy, cozy, and quaint. I'm sure there are parts of Providence that one must avoid, including around the Brown campus.

Your relationship with the University program students and interprofessionally with nursing, PA, dental, and social work means that you're always mixing with different people while enjoying the small cohort effect with your College classmates (longitudinally). The portfolio project that will help you document your accomplishments over 5 years was considered novel when the College launched 20 years ago, but it also is part of their commitment to self-reflection, wellness, and excellence.

You would need to check about Brown's research opportunities, but CCLCM also gives you leverage to do research with CWRU researchers in engineering, social work, or psychology. You should be able to do rotations at Rainbow Babies and Children's for pediatrics, which is also a very well-respected hospital among its peers (where I did research).

P.S. I get no money shilling for CCLCM, but I have known and worked with their students (and their admissions team). I'm not faculty but I also still professionally associate with many of the faculty there (CCLCM/CWRU). I also know flying out of Cleveland (a light rail train from University Circle/CWRU gets you there) is more convenient than flying out of Providence (though the last time I went, my flight into Providence was a prop plane from LaGuardia over 25 years ago).

 

[allycat92]

Hold on... CCLCM is a tuition-free program. How did you get your calculation? Accreditation requires them to list all of their costs, but you don't pay tuition.

Cleveland is Cleveland, but it's affordable and the river hasn't burned since the 60's. Very strong LGBTQ+ support because Cleveland is a lot more blue than most of the rest of Ohio. Northeast Ohio has its history tied with Connecticut, so you might be surprised how similar it feels to live in Cleveland. (CWRU school colors == Yale school colors).

You can live reasonably close to Cleveland and rely on various shuttles, but that's no different than any other school. Of course, where you live around the Clinic... just like many East Coast schools, some of the nearby neighborhoods are challenging, but the Clinic is a significant source of community charity and is actively addressing SDOH disparities. Cleveland near the CWRU campus (University Circle) definitely nurtures artsy, cozy, and quaint. I'm sure there are parts of Providence that one must avoid, including around the Brown campus.

Your relationship with the University program students and interprofessionally with nursing, PA, dental, and social work means that you're always mixing with different people while enjoying the small cohort effect with your College classmates (longitudinally). The portfolio project that will help you document your accomplishments over 5 years was considered novel when the College launched 20 years ago, but it also is part of their commitment to self-reflection, wellness, and excellence.

You would need to check about Brown's research opportunities, but CCLCM also gives you leverage to do research with CWRU researchers in engineering, social work, or psychology. You should be able to do rotations at Rainbow Babies and Children's for pediatrics, which is also a very well-respected hospital among its peers (where I did research).

P.S. I get no money shilling for CCLCM, but I have known and worked with their students (and their admissions team). I'm not faculty but I also still professionally associate with many of the faculty there (CCLCM/CWRU). I also know flying out of Cleveland (a light rail train from University Circle/CWRU gets you there) is more convenient than flying out of Providence (though the last time I went, my flight into Providence was a prop plane from LaGuardia over 25 years ago).

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the specific insights here. I’m def going to the second look weekend in April and am excited to get a sense of the artsy/queer vibes in-person 🙂

I calculated the cost based on indirect stuff (housing, food, etc —> $30K/year x 5 years). Unfortunately I come from a very low-income background and can’t count on parents to support on any of that 🙁

Thanks again!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the specific insights here. I’m def going to the second look weekend in April and am excited to get a sense of the artsy/queer vibes in-person 🙂

I calculated the cost based on indirect stuff (housing, food, etc —> $30K/year x 5 years). Unfortunately I come from a very low-income background and can’t count on parents to support on any of that 🙁

Thanks again!

So if Brown Med is need-based, do you know that they will offer to match a tuition scholarship from CCLCM given what you share in your FAFSA? Do you think that CWRU financial aid would also adjust? What do you calculate to be your cost of living budget, based on average rent you see around both campuses, or maybe based on feedback from current students in your private groups?

One more resource:

Meet Our Chapters — Medical Student Pride Alliance

www.medpride.org

 

[shy_hulud]

Most of my family and friends are in the South and California, so location isn't a differentiating factor either. Both schools have insane match lists akin to a "T10."

FWIW, I'm fairly set on going the academic physician-investigator route (though more clinical/translational over basic research), and I am very undecided on a specialty (currently interested in ophtho, ENT, neurology, psych, IM).

Brown punches above its weight, but it doesn't match like a T10. If you're fairly set on going academic, based on the peers that I know at CCLCM and their results, you'll have more opportunities and trajectory coming from CCLCM.