WARS outlook for people with unbalanced GPA/MCAT

[Engrailed]

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WARS is great for a holistic assessment of premeds but pls correct me if Im wrong.. it fails to predict for people with lopsided Gpa/MCAT, is that right?

My GPA falls at the 95+ percentile for schools but MCAT well below the 25 percentile so Im led to believe my WARS score isnt going to be predictive of my chances. Anyone else also experience something similar?

 

[honeybee87]

WARS is great for a holistic assessment of premeds but pls correct me if Im wrong.. it fails to predict for people with lopsided Gpa/MCAT, is that right?

My GPA falls at the 95+ percentile for schools but MCAT well below the 25 percentile so Im led to believe my WARS score isnt going to be predictive of my chances. Anyone else also experience something similar?

I believe both WARS and LizzyM will give you a score that is higher than your “true” score, as it’s far better to have a high MCAT and lower gpa then vv

 

[unluckyadhessiveness]

I believe both WARS and LizzyM will give you a score that is higher than your “true” score, as it’s far better to have a high MCAT and lower gpa then vv

Why do people consistently say that MCAT >> GPA when the actual data would suggest the opposite (at least for sGPA)?

 

[Engrailed]

Why do people consistently say that MCAT >> GPA when the actual data would suggest the opposite (at least for sGPA)?

Maybe that is more for when the sGPA and MCAT are close and not as disparate as mine are.

 

[honeybee87]

Why do people consistently say that MCAT >> GPA when the actual data would suggest the opposite (at least for sGPA)?

Hmmm didn’t know that. Idk I’d be down with that lol even tho I got a 92%tile MCAT my gpa is 100%tile so that’s good with me lmaoo

 

[unluckyadhessiveness]

Maybe that is more for when the sGPA and MCAT are close and not as disparate as mine are.

Well yeah it's always going to be a bit strange to see people with one very high metric and one relatively low, but I'm questioning the entire principal as a whole and not your specific situation.

 

[Dr panda]

Well yeah it's always going to be a bit strange to see people with one very high metric and one relatively low, but I'm questioning the entire principal as a whole and not your specific situation.

I think the point in weighting GPA heavier than the MCAT is because strong GPA means consistent work ethic. It means that one was able to work very hard during few years, while the good MCAT score could be obtained by simple luck, being a good test taker, or just putting everything in the MCAT basket and neglecting classes. The latter actually happens in my home country when universities do not look at high school GPA and only look at your exam score (very brutal analog of SAT). So most students (including myself) just studied for the exams and didn’t devote time to unrelated subjects, as long as they can get a C in the class. This strategy is used because of high level of corruption, so that is how students are protected from bribing teachers in high schools to get stellar grades. Back to the topic, I am also on the side with GPA >>> MCAT. Low MCAT could simply mean being too stressed on the test day.

 

[honeybee87]

I think the point in weighting GPA heavier than the MCAT is because strong GPA means consistent work ethic. It means that one was able to work very hard during few years, while the good MCAT score could be obtained by simple luck, being a good test taker, or just putting everything in the MCAT basket and neglecting classes. The latter actually happens in my home country when universities do not look at high school GPA and only look at your exam score (very brutal analog of SAT). So most students (including myself) just studied for the exams and didn’t devote time to unrelated subjects, as long as they can get a C in the class. This strategy is used because of high level of corruption, so that is how students are protected from bribing teachers in high schools to get stellar grades. Back to the topic, I am also on the side with GPA >>> MCAT. Low MCAT could simply mean being too stressed on the test day.

Honestly, while I agree with your logic and truly hope that this GPA > MCAT logic is true, everything I’ve read on SDN is MCAT > GPA

 

[907914]

Honestly, while I agree with your logic and truly hope that this GPA > MCAT logic is true, everything I’ve read on SDN is MCAT > GPA

I believe it is sGPA>MCAT>cGPA

HOWEVER, the sGPA importance measures consistency as opposed to ‘aptitude.’ And it is a considering factor, not a scaled and weighted factor. An sGPA of >3.5 indicates you are capable of being successful in medical school. Any lower than that and it is worrisome. Much higher than a 3.7, however, does not correlate well with increased medical school performance. So, I believe those check boxes indicate that schools are not checking to see how high the sGPA is, just that they consider a certain threshold to be of a particular value. Once you pass that threshold, MCAT matters much more than absolute single metric.

 

[907914]

Honestly, while I agree with your logic and truly hope that this GPA > MCAT logic is true, everything I’ve read on SDN is MCAT > GPA

MCAT 518+ of all GPAs has a success rate of 83%. GPA 3.8+ of all MCATs has a success rate of 66%.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

 

[honeybee87]

I believe it is sGPA>MCAT>cGPA

HOWEVER, the sGPA importance measures consistency as opposed to ‘aptitude.’ And it is a considering factor, not a scaled and weighted factor. An sGPA of >3.5 indicates you are capable of being successful in medical school. Any lower than that and it is worrisome. Much higher than a 3.7, however, does not correlate well with increased medical school performance. So, I believe those check boxes indicate that schools are not checking to see how high the sGPA is, just that they consider a certain threshold to be of a particular value. Once you pass that threshold, MCAT matters much more than absolute single metric.

That actually makes a lot of sense

 

[Seihai]

The importance of sGPA plateaus off significantly after you hit around 3.6+ - that is, a 4.0 isn't going to get you significantly more ground than a 3.6.

However, the importance of the MCAT does not plateau in the same manner. A 522 will be significantly more important than a 516, even though both are >90th percentile.

For unbalanced applicants, this is likely to manifest in having a higher sGPA and a lower MCAT (in which case the lower MCAT will hurt you as the higher sGPA doesn't help you as much past 3.5+) or in having a lower sGPA and a higher MCAT (in which case the MCAT will be helpful because at higher MCAT scores it becomes more valuable).

 

[Engrailed]

The importance of sGPA plateaus off significantly after you hit around 3.6+ - that is, a 4.0 isn't going to get you significantly more ground than a 3.6.

However, the importance of the MCAT does not plateau in the same manner. A 522 will be significantly more important than a 516, even though both are >90th percentile.

For unbalanced applicants, this is likely to manifest in having a higher sGPA and a lower MCAT (in which case the lower MCAT will hurt you as the higher sGPA doesn't help you as much past 3.5+) or in having a lower sGPA and a higher MCAT (in which case the MCAT will be helpful because at higher MCAT scores it becomes more valuable).

I agree with this. Such is my situation.
Also skeptical of how “holistic” app readers are as i have good ECs but who knows...

 

[907914]

I agree with this. Such is my situation.
Also skeptical of how “holistic” app readers are as i have good ECs but who knows...

Holistic does not mean stats are not taken in to consideration. They are given a particular weight, along with everything else in the app. Good ECs cannot make up for lackluster academic performance. This coming from a 3.6/521 who is banking on his ECs to carry him through T10 admissions.

 

[Engrailed]

Holistic does not mean stats are not taken in to consideration. They are given a particular weight, along with everything else in the app. Good ECs cannot make up for lackluster academic performance. This coming from a 3.6/521 who is banking on his ECs to carry him through T10 admissions.

Well yes, my point being.. to the schools that say they look at everything .. i hope they do actually closely look at the rest of the application.
I think your 3.6/521 is pretty good actually. The 3.6 is lower than most medians but the 521 is pretty extra! 🙂

 

[honeybee87]

Well yes, my point being.. to the schools that say they look at everything .. i hope they do actually closely look at the rest of the application.
I think your 3.6/521 is pretty good actually. The 3.6 is lower than most medians but the 521 is pretty extra! 🙂

What are your stats? Maybe you should do a WAMC post and tag goro? Also, in ur case, your undergrad university will prob be weighted a lot more heavily since ur apps kinda banking on ur high gpa

EDIT: actually, an MCAT below 25 is pretty low now that I think about it, it’s like in the 480’s right? I don’t think that’s enough for even DO, even if your URM. Definitely study and retake

 

[Engrailed]

What are your stats? Maybe you should do a WAMC post and tag goro?

Ive already done so and the consensus is that t20 is a reach. So Ill sprinkle some reaches but not betting on it as my MCat is 515. (Gpa is 3.9+)

 

[honeybee87]

Ive already done so and the consensus is that t20 is a reach. So Ill sprinkle some reaches but not betting on it as my MCat is 515. (Gpa is 3.9+)

Ohhhh I thought you meant ur total MCAT was below 25th percentile lol. I got light weight scared for u. Ur good bro, you have pretty much the exact stats as me

 

[Engrailed]

Ohhhh I thought you meant ur total MCAT was below 25th percentile lol. I got light weight scared for u. Ur good bro, you have pretty much the exact stats as me

Lol a 25th percentile mcat would be frightening as well... Yes I meant the 25th for the t20 schools

 

[DokterMom]

That would also depend to some extent on the caliber of your undergraduate school. A 4.0 from Podunk College and low MCAT isn't going to impress. A 4.0 from MIT and low-but-acceptable MCAT is fine.

To offer meaningful advice, we'd need some more specific information.

 

[ObjectiveBoba]

Honestly, while I agree with your logic and truly hope that this GPA > MCAT logic is true, everything I’ve read on SDN is MCAT > GPA

I've asked this question directly to a few adcoms, and they always say the same thing: there are far more people with high GPAs than high MCATs. There are 13,000 people a year applying with a 3.8+. There are 3,900 people applying with a 517+. Guess which one admissions will use to differentiate applicants?

At the end of the day, when more people are applying with a similar stat (in this case, GPA), adcoms need to look elsewhere to differentiate/accept applicants. It just turns out that MCAT usually does this pretty well and more objectively than ECs.

 

[Engrailed]

I've asked this question directly to a few adcoms, and they always say the same thing: there are far more people with high GPAs than high MCATs. There are 13,000 people a year applying with a 3.8+. There are 3,900 people applying with a 517+. Guess which one admissions will use to differentiate applicants?

At the end of the day, when more people are applying with a similar stat (in this case, GPA), adcoms need to look elsewhere to accept applicants. It just turns out that MCAT usually does this pretty well and more objectively than ECs.

Well that’s only obvious given that the MCAT is a percentile so theory you cant have the majority of applicants be with a 517+. The number of 517 etc will always be limited as the applicants are competing against each other as the GPA doesnt have that sort of ceiling

 

[Cornfed101]

I believe it is sGPA>MCAT>cGPA

HOWEVER, the sGPA importance measures consistency as opposed to ‘aptitude.’ And it is a considering factor, not a scaled and weighted factor. An sGPA of >3.5 indicates you are capable of being successful in medical school. Any lower than that and it is worrisome. Much higher than a 3.7, however, does not correlate well with increased medical school performance. So, I believe those check boxes indicate that schools are not checking to see how high the sGPA is, just that they consider a certain threshold to be of a particular value. Once you pass that threshold, MCAT matters much more than absolute single metric.

Damn engineering Math classes... screwing my sGPA...

 

[907914]

engineering Math

I believe that most ADCOMs recognize the difficulties of engineering courses. That does not necessarily excuse a poor GPA, but it does provide a different context to it.

 

[WedgeDawg]

In your situation, WARS will likely give you a baseline rough assessment of your overall competitiveness. After that, you should look on MSAR for schools where you're >10th percentile for both MCAT and GPA, assemble a list, and go to the WAMC forum so that people can help you tweak the list.

 

[907914]

In your situation, WARS will likely give you a baseline rough assessment of your overall competitiveness. After that, you should look on MSAR for schools where you're >10th percentile for both MCAT and GPA, assemble a list, and go to the WAMC forum so that people can help you tweak the list.

How do you evaluate candidates who are <10% cGPA, median MCAT and >90% sGPA?

 

[Engrailed]

How do you evaluate candidates who are <10% cGPA, median MCAT and >90% sGPA?

@WedgeDawg
Or also 10-25th MCAT and 90th GPA

 

[Cornfed101]

I believe that most ADCOMs recognize the difficulties of engineering courses. That does not necessarily excuse a poor GPA, but it does provide a different context to it.

Yeah if only I knew I wanted to be a doctor when I started school I would have studied elementary education

 

[907914]

Yeah if only I knew I wanted to be a doctor when I started school I would have studied elementary education

If only I knew I wanted to be a doctor back in high school then I would have actually done my homework, graduated with higher than a 3.1, went to a better college, had more opportunity and a higher GPA, and would probably already be an MS3 by now. But you know what, life happens and here we are with a happy life, kids, married, and still applying to med school with a statistically good shot. So lets kill it, fellow non-trad.

Sorry, turned your joke in to a Braveheart moment.

 

[WedgeDawg]

How do you evaluate candidates who are <10% cGPA, median MCAT and >90% sGPA?

I would not recommend applying to many/any schools where you are below <10th percentile without sufficient reason to think you might be in that 10% who still gets an interview.

@WedgeDawg
Or also 10-25th MCAT and 90th GPA

You can apply, but make sure your lists have a strong core component of schools where you’re closer to the middle (or closer to the top if possible).