was told to write my own LOR....a slippery slope?

[elliotcantread]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello all,

I'm applying to anesthesiology in the 2012-2013 cycle. Today, one of the docs who agreed to write a LOR for me told me I should just draft him a letter, "not make myself sound like God", and give it to him to put on letterhead and sign.

This feels...weird. While loads of students have said this is my chance to make sure I have a great LOR in the bag, I was wondering how current anesthesiologists felt about this practice. Have you ever asked a student to do this? Is it kosher? Should I just shut my mouth and do it, counting my blessings that I've essentially been given carte blanche?

And along the lines of being kosher, does this mean I don't get to check of "waive my right to view letter?" Ugh.

Thanks for the input.

 

[PMPMD]

Hello all,

I'm applying to anesthesiology in the 2012-2013 cycle. Today, one of the docs who agreed to write a LOR for me told me I should just draft him a letter, "not make myself sound like God", and give it to him to put on letterhead and sign.

This feels...weird. While loads of students have said this is my chance to make sure I have a great LOR in the bag, I was wondering how current anesthesiologists felt about this practice. Have you ever asked a student to do this? Is it kosher? Should I just shut my mouth and do it, counting my blessings that I've essentially been given carte blanche?

And along the lines of being kosher, does this mean I don't get to check of "waive my right to view letter?" Ugh.

Thanks for the input.

Can you find someone else to write a LOR for you? Sounds real shady.

 

[elliotcantread]

Yes and no. I really want to use this person because I feel he genuinely is impressed by my work on the wards ....but I guess, how impressed could he really be if hes not even willing to write the letter, right?

blahhhh....being an MS4 is so...awkward.

 

[Gern Blansten]

It is really a no win situation. If you write it too good, the "letter writer's" opinion of you will plummet. But you don't really know where you stand with them anyway. If you write it a bit conservative, it will sound lukewarm.

My best advice would be to just not write it and never follow up with the request. I suspect they will forget you asked. If they do ask about it, just say you ended up having too many letter writers and had to drop one, so you didn't end up needing it after all.

I think a more reasonable request for that person would have been to ask you what you felt were your strengths and get a copy of your CV. It literally takes 10 minutes to draft a letter when you have all of those facts in front of you. In addition, most faculty have clerical support, so they could even dictate the letter and have a secretary print out a nice copy.

I agree with you that this seems shady and I think it would start your whole process off on the wrong foot. If it ever came out that this occurred, it would put you in a terrible position that was not your own fault. I don't want to be naive. I am certain this happens in some instances, but I just don't think it is right. I would never put someone in that position and they are wrong to do it to you.

Just my opinion.

 

[pgg]

Write it, make yourself sound like a demigod on the verge of godhood, and if he gives you bad vibes about it, ask someone else for a letter.

 

[Nooblet]

a slippery slope of awesomeness

 

[Orin]

Have you ever asked a student to do this? Is it kosher? Should I just shut my mouth and do it, counting my blessings that I've essentially been given carte blanche? ...does this mean I don't get to check of "waive my right to view letter?"

No. I think it's a good idea though and hope I will be doing some version of this in the future if I'm handling 10+ LORs.

Yes. I think of this as akin to the 'joint letter' written be a resident who's worked with you and signed by an attending. The attending is still the final say, and will edit it as they see fit.

Yes, but if you aren't comfortable, you should tell them so. I would offer a mixed version where you give them some material, strengths, anecdotes, things you want to bring out, etc., but they can put it together as they see fit. It's a lot easier editing something as compared to that initial creation.

No. You aren't necessarily seeing the final version. Also, waiving your right to view it doesn't mean they can't show it to you of their own volition in case they want to show you how much you suck on this LOR they are sending out.

I was not in that situation for med school LORs, but I have done this for other stuff. It's relatively common in some fields. I found it easier to do after a couple of drinks, followed by a few rounds of editing while sober, followed by having someone else review it.

 

[edelweiss]

I ask, "Would you be comfortable writing a letter of recommendation for me?"

If they say "Sure, send me a draft," I politely explain that I am not comfortable with this and will be glad to ask someone else to write an original letter.

Most letters drafted by you, sound like they were drafted by you. End of story.

 

[Idiopathic]

sadly, this happens a lot. i asked someone at my med school to do this, got that response, prepared an envelope with my CV, personal statement and transcript, and asked if they wouldnt mind drafting something...never got it. moral of this story, if you want a letter from that person, you may have to write it yourself. since all you want is their name on the letterhead, its really a no-lose situation. you will be much less flattering of yourself than a letter-writer, so be honest and present yourself in a favorable light, but obviously not as the greatest thing since sliced bread. should be fine.

or go find another letter writer

 

[RT2MD]

I ran into the same experience for a medical school letter. I emailed my biochem professor (who knew me pretty well) for a letter and got a pre-typed letter entitled "So... you want Dr. X to write you a letter?". It went on to explain that I needed to write my own letter and then give it to him with my CV/etc. At first I was excited about it, then the more I thought about it the more nervous I got. I ended up finding somebody different, never even replied to the email asking for me to write it. I know my situation is different than yours, I didn't really need for him to write it... that's a tough situation.

It's hard to say what I would do in your situation, but I think that I would lean towards finding somebody else... if there was somebody else. If not, I'd do what Idiopathic said.

 

[Idiopathic]

some people are asked to write a lot of letters. it can be a fairly time consuming thing.

 

[ptie]

Hello all,

I'm applying to anesthesiology in the 2012-2013 cycle. Today, one of the docs who agreed to write a LOR for me told me I should just draft him a letter, "not make myself sound like God", and give it to him to put on letterhead and sign.

This feels...weird. While loads of students have said this is my chance to make sure I have a great LOR in the bag, I was wondering how current anesthesiologists felt about this practice. Have you ever asked a student to do this? Is it kosher? Should I just shut my mouth and do it, counting my blessings that I've essentially been given carte blanche?

And along the lines of being kosher, does this mean I don't get to check of "waive my right to view letter?" Ugh.

Thanks for the input.

In academia, this happens all the time. It's hard because you have to walk a fine line between praising yourself too much and not praising yourself enough.

 

[pgg]

In academia, this happens all the time. It's hard because you have to walk a fine line between praising yourself too much and not praising yourself enough.

What happens if you praise yourself too much?

Do the letter writers suddenly refuse to sign the letter? Demand revisions? Write one themselves? I don't see a problem there.


The real risk in my view is that if you haven't written letters for other people in the past, any LOR you compose will sound like it's the first LOR the author has ever written, because it is. This is the biggest reason why telling someone to write his own LOR is a scuzzy thing to do. It all but guarantees an amateurish letter which doesn't reflect well on the signer or the subject.

 

[Gern Blansten]

The real risk in my view is that if you haven't written letters for other people in the past, any LOR you compose will sound like it's the first LOR the author has ever written, because it is. This is the biggest reason why telling someone to write his own LOR is a scuzzy thing to do. It all but guarantees an amateurish letter which doesn't reflect well on the signer or the subject.

^^^^Best point so far.
In addition, many people have certain styles of letters they write. Some times that is a good thing. Often it is a very bad thing. Sometimes it is a form letter that talks more about the letter writer than the actual person the letter is about (these letters are simply awful, shameful, and difficult to read). So if your letter writer has developed a style of letter and now you write one he signs off on, it will stick out like a sore thumb as "different." Maybe different in a good way, maybe not, but different.
I read probably 600-800 letters a year and probably write 20 or so. I know many of the recurring letter writers and can tell who they "really" like and who they are a bit lukewarm about from the style of their letters. I write mine the same way. All are different, but some aspects are similar. I always try and personalize it for each one to point out positive things unique to that person.

It is very rare to read a letter and base any important decision on that letter alone. So, in the grand scheme of things, the letters will be unlikely to determine your fate with a program. There have been a handful of letters about candidates that were so good that I just had to meet them.

So, the point is, people who will be reading them will have probably read a lot of letters in the past. If yours is "amateurish" as pgg pointed out, it will stand out.