wash u vs. mayo

[internalmed1111]

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Hi all,

I have interviewed at both places and am trying to decide b/w the two. The last search I found bout this was in 2004. Of course, St. Louis is a better city than Rochester (at least to me), but I'm wondering overall what you all think--preferably from anyone training at either of these places or someone who has interviewed at both. I'm just trying to figure out which is a better place overall--as in where I'll get trained best and have a good chance for fellowship (want to go into GI at the moment). I keep hearing mixed reactions regarding the two.

Thanks in advance!

 

[docrocmayo]

Hi all,

I have interviewed at both places and am trying to decide b/w the two. The last search I found bout this was in 2004. Of course, St. Louis is a better city than Rochester (at least to me), but I'm wondering overall what you all think--preferably from anyone training at either of these places or someone who has interviewed at both. I'm just trying to figure out which is a better place overall--as in where I'll get trained best and have a good chance for fellowship (want to go into GI at the moment). I keep hearing mixed reactions regarding the two.

Thanks in advance!

I am not sure about what the word on the street for WashU's GI placements is. Mayo's GI placements are all over the board. We had about 6 people who applied to GI last year. I think 3 are staying here One was a chief resident, one had worked with some big names in the dept and applied as an R3, and the one had won some great clinician award as a resident. This is actually a good intake of internal applicants out of a total of 8 spots or so and this does not happen every year. I think Mayo's GI fellowship program for whatever reason does not like to inbreed.

The 'elite" program where we usually send a resident or two every year is University of Michigan. We did place one guy at Beth Israel Deaconess in 2007. However he was a trained doc from Europe with > 100 publications .

Not sure whether this answers your question..

docroc

 

[tibor75]

I am not sure about what the word on the street for WashU's GI placements is. Mayo's GI placements are all over the board. We had about 6 people who applied to GI last year. I think 3 are staying here One was a chief resident, one had worked with some big names in the dept and applied as an R3, and the one had won some great clinician award as a resident. This is actually a good intake of internal applicants out of a total of 8 spots or so and this does not happen every year. I think Mayo's GI fellowship program for whatever reason does not like to inbreed.

The 'elite" program where we usually send a resident or two every year is University of Michigan. We did place one guy at Beth Israel Deaconess in 2007. However he was a trained doc from Europe with > 100 publications .

Not sure whether this answers your question..

docroc

I know as far as Cardiology goes, Mayo does not want the whole class to be Mayo IM trained, which makes sense. Talking to somebody else, it seems that about 1/2 of the class is from Mayo.

I think people need to look at fellowship placements iwth a grain of salt. Remeber, any one person has a lot of reasons they may want a particular fellowship more than another - location, family, lifestyle. So just because in 1 year 2 people went to places you don't consider "top-tier" doesn't mean the program is slipping.

 

[GIF]

According to their list, here are Wash U's GI placement for the last 3 matches:

Wash U x 5
Brigham and Women's x 3
Pittsburgh x 3
Yale x 2
Univ of Chicago
Mayo
UCSF
Penn
Alabama
SLU
Kansas

 

[drjitsu]

I'll weigh in here because I interviewed at both.

I think for fellowship opportunities, you would be set up very well at either place.

Though, I think you would want to decide if you would like clinical or basic science research. Mayo has great clinical research opportunities with plenty of opportunities to present, but has limited basic science research. Wash U is quite the opposite, being a basic science powerhouse. Wash U likely has clinical opportunities as well, but I haven't seen any place that is doing the things that Mayo is.

For me, the biggest difference here is location. St. Louis surprised me, in that it's really not a bad place to live. That being said, it's not what everyone is looking for. Rochester is a smaller city, but a fixture in most of those "best places to live" articles. Personally, I have a family, and Rochester is pretty ideal, except for the weather. So, again, it's a personal thing. I don't think anyone would say that either place is heaven on earth.

I don't know how your interview experience was at the two places, but the Mayo residents seemed much happier to me. Wash U seemed to be in a transitional period. The call schedule had just switched three weeks before my interview and there were definitely mixed reviews. Also, they were in the midst of changing to all EMR sometime during the upcoming intern year, and that got very mixed feelings as well. So, again, personal thing here, but I got a better "vibe" and gut feeling from the Mayo residents. This is obviously very subjective.

Really, professionally you can't miss at either of these programs. That's my feeling. They are top notch. I don't know about you and the rest of the interviewees out there, but all my little columns and check boxes are becoming less and less important as I find out truly how similar many programs are. Taking the spreadsheets place is that nebulous gut check/vibe/"do I fit in" feeling.

I hope this helped a little. Feel free to pm me with any other thoughts or questons.

 

[lemonade02]

lets be real..wash u's fellowship opportunities are phenomenal...if that's the main thing, you have your answer....

 

[dragonfly99]

I think drjitsu is on the mark.
If your sole concern is either
a) fellowship placement at a "prestigious" place or
b) basic science
Then I think WashU has the edge.
Mayo probably has better clinical research and may be more collegial.

 

[docrocmayo]

Here are Mayo GI's fellowship placements from the last 4 years.

2005
SLU, loyola , university of minnesota, mayo X 1

2006
mayo X 3 , UMDNJ, SLU, Good Samaritan Arizona,

2007
Rush Chicago, SLU, Iowa, Indiana, mayo X3 ( two chiefs)

2008
Michigan, Mayo X1 , BIDMC

I dont have data on how many went unmatched every year..

 

[internalmed1111]

Hey everyone--thanks for all of your responses. It looks like I really can't go wrong either way.

I think just going by location itself and the fact that I'm not married w/ kids, WashU prob suits me better. However, I'm pretty laid back and really felt a better vibe w/ the mayo residents. I did w/ washu as well, but it did seem more cut throat.

Hopefully I'll get more clarity with time. Thanks for all your responses.

 

[boyz of 4d]

hey docrocmayo:

I was wondering if you have a similar breakdown for the cardio fellowship. All that was given to us during the interview day was total number over the last 8 years. Please let me know when you get the chance. Thanks`

 

[docrocmayo]

here are the cardiology fellowship placements from the last four years


2008- mayo X8, William Beaumont, Univ of Missouri Kansas, U Kentucky

2007-mayo X5, oklahoma, UTexas Houston X2 , UWisconsin, Lutheran General Chicago, University of Washington Seattle, Vanderbilt, Mayo Scottsdale, Univ of Utah, Univ of Nebraska, Univ of Florida Jacksonville

2006- mayo X4, emory X2, long island jewish ( NY), SLU, Dartmouth, Baylor-Houston, Univ of Virginia


2005-mayo X 4 , univ of louiville, emory, Johns Hopkins, Texas Heart X2 , Univ of Iowa, Univ of Florida, Univ of Virginia

 

[ABCfib]

I don't want to be annoying, but could somebody throw in the placements in Heme/Onc (Mayo-Roch) over the last years? Thanks a lot!!!

 

[BlackNDecker]

Seriously, STL great? IMHO, I thought it was pretty depressing. Also, if you wanna live walking distance to the hospital you're gonna shell out > $200K.

No one will dispute WashU's match list. However, if "program prestige" is your main priority, then ask the next person you meet on the street (outside of STL or MO for that matter) if they've ever even heard of Barnes Jewish? If, by chance, they have, ask them if they'd rather have their care at WashU or the Mayo Clinic? nuff said.

You have the power, if sufficiently motivated, to match almost anywhere in the country you want. So relax (or get really stressed if that's your bag), 62% of fellowship matching is out of your control. I know a PGY3 here that co-authored a chapter in Braunwald's (no $hit) and still got rejected by "a certain Ivy" program.

 

[dragonfly99]

No one will dispute WashU's match list. However, if "program prestige" is your main priority, then ask the next person you meet on the street (outside of STL or MO for that matter) if they've ever even heard of Barnes Jewish? If, by chance, they have, ask them if they'd rather have their care at WashU or the Mayo Clinic? nuff said.

[/QUOTE]

Mayo has name recognition >> WashU with the general public, but Wash U has name recognition > Mayo for being hard to get into and for having a rigorous IM program as far as some fellowship program directors are concerned. They are both good places...you just have to think about where you want to live and at which of the two, if any, you'd consider for fellowship, b/c internal candidates usually have a slight advantage in the IM fellowship match process.

 

[Dr. Corday]

As a current Wash U resident, I want to address the issues brought up in this thread and I'll preface by saying that I'm a PGY-3.

Our residents are generally VERY happy. That is actually one of the big attractions for me as it is one of the most collegial places I had interviewed at. Mayo is another such place where I thought the residents were cohesive and collegial and I would put both on the same "happiness" bar. But there are few other "elite" instituitions that come close in my opinion.

As far as the call schedule changes. I agree that it is harder on interns than on upper level residents but still amounts to only q8 overnight for interns and they get to leave at 1pm the next day while the resident stays to finish up the work. I think it really improves continuity of care but that being said, another big positive about Wash U is the responsiveness of our program to resident feedback. Every time there have been changes, the program holds multiple feedback sessions and even sets up anonymous online voting to get residents' input. This is not the case at most other "elite" instituitions. So you can be sure that the program will continue to tweak the system for further improvement and will leave no class of residents unhappy.

On EMR. I went through a medical school that was in the middle of implementing this as I was doing my subI. Yes, it takes time to learn a new system, but no, it won't be huge pains. We are smart enough to learn it and it will be worth it to eliminate delays/mistakes by unit secretaries.

On Saint Louis. This is the first time I'm living in the MidWest and I have been pleasantly surprised. I live across the street from the hospital in the Central West End. I walk to work and so do a lot of my co-residents (it is more than affordable). We hang out in this area as well since there are many restaurants in the blocks around the hospital. And Forest Park is really a gem that is priceless in the middle of the city and walking distance from hospital and where I live. Yes, Saint Louis is not a big city. But that also is why it remains affordable and why you don't have to put up with the traffic of cities size of Chicago.

Send me a message if you have questions on the above and good luck to all of you in the match.