WashU or UPenn? I can't decide.

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WashU or UPenn?

  • Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine

    Votes: 51 39.2%
  • University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine

    Votes: 79 60.8%

  • Total voters
    130

mouseprinter

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WashU or UPenn? I can't decide. 😕

WashU has better residency programs.
Penn is has a better location.

Penn has 1.5 years preclinical; therefore less time to learn+prep for Step 1, b/c you start clinical early and have to study for it.
Wash U has 2 years preclinical.

WashU is 1 year pass/fail.
Penn is 0.5 year pass/fail.

WashU has recently slipped.
Penn rose one rank this year.

and the list goes on...
 
As of 4:54pm ET, the vote stands at WashU 2, UPenn 6.
Could you explain why you picked one or the other? It would be very helpful. Thanks!
 
Go Wash U. Pass/Fail? Yes. Cool students (especially MD/PhDers)? Yes. Location: access to an underserved community? Yes. Plus, living in Missouri is cheaper. Go St. Louis. My $.02
 
Who cares about the rankings? Egad! Let's look for schools that complement our work and study ethics. Forget about the rankings. They are not even scientific. In the end, if a student gets into a great school and hates it, performance will show just how great that school really was for that individual. Go where you think you will do well, be happy, have a life in addition to being a medical student, and where you have a chance at making friendships. No silly rankings. (Harvard is #1 almost every year. Would you want to go there? Not me!)
 
I thought the students at UPenn were great - very mature, diverse, and nice. 🙂 Also,the program was impressive. Plus, I'd rather live in Philly. WashU is awesome, but I didn't feel I clicked with the students there. Also, St. Louis seemed kind of drab. But, I almost went there. Let me say this, you can't go wrong!!! I think both schools are AMAZING. Congratulations on your dilemma. 👍
 
BozoSparky said:
I thought the students at UPenn were great - very mature, diverse, and nice. 🙂 Also,the program was impressive. Plus, I'd rather live in Philly. WashU is awesome, but I didn't feel I clicked with the students there. Also, St. Louis seemed kind of drab. But, I almost went there. Let me say this, you can't go wrong!!! I think both schools are AMAZING. Congratulations on your dilemma. 👍


I agree with what you say about Penn students - they're wonderful (especially me 😀 )

Seriously, you must have skipped Penn Preview if you don't already have an apartment reserved in Philly. I fell in love six years ago and haven't looked back 😍

I would comment on Wash U vs Penn, but I ended up not even finishing the secondary app for Wash U. Maybe it was because St. Louis people are always mean to me (or maybe because the app was cumbersome, I was lazy back then :laugh: )

Congrats!
 
I'd go to Penn, mostly because I like Philly vs. St. Louis, but the curriculum makes more sense to me as well. I also like that the Penn undergrad is nearby to the med school. Talk to Neronix (sp) about Penn, though.
 
dajimmers said:
I'd go to Penn, mostly because I like Philly vs. St. Louis, but the curriculum makes more sense to me as well. I also like that the Penn undergrad is nearby to the med school. Talk to Neronix (sp) about Penn, though.

1. The Penn curriculum makes more sense to you... how so?
Since UPenn's preclinical curriculum is 1.5 yr (0.5 yr less than norm), wouldn't that give me less time to study for Step 1? Since I start clinicals early, my first rotation would be spent juggling clinical studies with reviewing preclinic stuff for Step 1, i think.
2. Why would having an undergrad near the med school be advantageous?
🙂 Thanks for referring Neronix, I will go look him/her up.
 
I'm actually leaving Philly to go to Wash U. From what I saw, the cost of living is DEFINITELY lower there. I was blown away by the apartment options.... cheap, large, great location, well maintained. 🙂 Anyhow... both schools are great, so you can't really go wrong. If you don't feel terribly strongly about either school/city, I say flip a coin and end the agony of decision making.
 
mouseprinter said:
1. The Penn curriculum makes more sense to you... how so?
Since UPenn's preclinical curriculum is 1.5 yr (0.5 yr less than norm), wouldn't that give me less time to study for Step 1? Since I start clinicals early, my first rotation would be spent juggling clinical studies with reviewing preclinic stuff for Step 1, i think.
2. Why would having an undergrad near the med school be advantageous?
🙂 Thanks for referring Neronix, I will go look him/her up.
I think Penn students take step 1 after their third year, giving them more clinical experience before they take the test. I've heard Penn has great board scores that validate this method. Having the ugrad nearby is useful if you want to take any non-medical courses. You can do a dual-degree at one of the other schools, audit a philosophy class or something like that, etc. Also, I think it helps make the medical school less single-mindedly focused on only medicine (i.e. basic science with no sociocultural concerns).

I can't remember how well Penn utilized the undergrad and other adjacent schools, but it seems like a big plus to me. I liked Duke, Michigan, and Chicago for the same reason.
 
Both schools will prepare you for success on the boards and beyond. Go where you'll be happy. For me, that was Penn. I was in the same boat as the original poster: It was down to WashU and Penn because of $ issues. I ultimately chose the city that was better and the location that was closer to home. Having gone back to WashU for ophtho residency interviews, I am convinced I made the right decision for me. But everyone is different. I'm a real city person. The only downside is that Philly is more expensive than St. Louis. But there is also a lot more to do and the city is more fun and walkable.

I take issue with your statement that WashU's residencies are better than Penn's. Both are national leaders in numerous fields. In some cases, WashU has a better reputation. In others, Penn does. It depends on what specifically you're interested in.

I posted this on the pre-allo website regarding your question about studying for step 1:

1) According to our Dean, Penn's mean and median Step 1 scores have frequently been #1 in the country. (I am sure that Wash U's are similar, especially considering that the schools have relatively similar accepted applicant profiles.)

2) We actually have MORE experience before taking Step 1. Why? Because we don't take it until after the 1.5 yrs of preclinical + an additional year of clinical work. (We usually take it at the end of January or begining of February of our 3rd year). You have no other academic committments at that time and you can theoretically take as long as you want to study. Now I can hear some of you thinking, "won't you forget biochemistry after doing clinical work for a year"? Trust me when I tell you that you forget biochemistry the minute you hand in your exam. Everyone has to review it, Penn students no more than any others.

3) You will have the experience of taking multiple national shelf exams on clinical material prior to taking the boards. This is great for developing test-taking skills. Also, more and more questions on Step 1 are being presented in the form of clinical vignettes. You get really good at reading these and parsing out the key details when you take the shelf exams.

4) I can't underestimate just how much having some clinical experience helped me on Step 1. Even though in theory it is supposed to test preclinical subjects, the knowledge base that you develop and solidify while in the clinics really helps you out on the exam. You become much more comfortable with microbiology, side effects of drugs, physiology and pathophysiology, etc. when you actually are responsible for patient care. There were many instances where there were patient description and after a few sentences, I thought to myself something like, "oh, that's ascending cholangitis...duh." I never would have been that comfortable after just preclinical work.

I think that if you ask any Penn student, we are incredibly happy that we took Step 1 after our core rotations. And 1.5 yrs of preclinical is more than enough. And don't even get me started on the extra time we had for electives, away rotations, travel, etc.

But the take-home message is that both schools are great. I'm sure I would've been happy at WashU but I've been very happy at Penn.

I'd be happy to discuss how I made my decision (back in the day) over the phone if you PM me.
 
Ah the typical East-coast elitist hogwash 😉

We like St. Louis, its a well-kept secret. If you're prejudiced against the midwest, don't crowd our fair city 😎

Honestly I think they're both great. I love it here in St. Louis but you really can't go wrong either way. Just go with whatever your gut reaction was.
 
Pastrami King said:
1) According to our Dean, Penn's mean and median Step 1 scores have frequently been #1 in the country. (I am sure that Wash U's are similar, especially considering that the schools have relatively similar accepted applicant profiles.)

haha, our dean tell us that too! I'll bet there are at least 20 deans across the country that use that line.

I'm sure Upenn does very well on Step1...then again we usually have the highest average MCAT and that correlates well with USMLE scores...
 
You should at least feel priviliged to be accepted by two top-tier schools.
 
I just finished my first year at Wash U and you should come. St. Louis is fine, much better than I expected, the teaching is excellent, the hospitals are fabulous, and the school itself is nice. I mean, essentially med school is med school but but I highly recommend Wash U. If you want more info on wash u, you can email me at [email protected].
 
UPENN! are you crazy, ivy league all the way.
 
Neuronix said:
I'd say to come to Penn too 😉 Who wants to live in St. Louis?!

I like STL WAY more than Philly. Philly is a crap hole ala New Haven...Of course most places in Cali own them all..
 
LADoc00 said:
I like STL WAY more than Philly. Philly is a crap hole ala New Haven...Of course most places in Cali own them all..


If Philly is a crap hole like you said, I can only imagine what Saint Louis would be. Waiting a few minutes at the airport doesn't count as seeing Philly.
 
infiniti said:
If Philly is a crap hole like you said, I can only imagine what Saint Louis would be. Waiting a few minutes at the airport doesn't count as seeing Philly.

Ah good point, and the experience you're using to judge St. Louis is.... 😉
 
velo said:
Ah good point, and the experience you're using to judge St. Louis is.... ACTUALLY KNOWING THE PLACE!
 
infiniti said:
velo said:
Ah good point, and the experience you're using to judge St. Louis is.... ACTUALLY KNOWING THE PLACE!

jebus, ok. I was just wondering if you wanted to qualify that or just make a vague reference to what you could "only imagine" St. Louis would be for someone who found philly ****ty.

After living here for two years I just don't see what's not to like, other than the weather of course. Anyway you shouldn't judge a place without knowing it, that's what they do in Russia.
 
BozoSparky said:
I thought the students at UPenn were great - very mature, diverse, and nice. 🙂 Also,the program was impressive. Plus, I'd rather live in Philly. WashU is awesome, but I didn't feel I clicked with the students there. Also, St. Louis seemed kind of drab. But, I almost went there. Let me say this, you can't go wrong!!! I think both schools are AMAZING. Congratulations on your dilemma. 👍


👍
 
Velo, I am not trying to say STL is horrible (But if Philly is a **** hole, ST. Louis would be much worse to the point where I can't even imagine what to call it). What I was trying to say is that you really can't compare saint louis to philly. In terms of things to do, size of city, population, public transportation (accessiblity), liveliness e.t.c, Philly clearly trumps STL.

To say Philly is a **** hole is also pretty stupid. As most people who know philly will tell you, it is a city of micro-neighborhoods. You do have to explore several of the neighborhoods to understand what I am saying.

That being said, STL is undergoing some changes and you never know what could happen in a couple of decades.
 
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