WashU vs. Colorado

[soporspelare]

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Can't seem to decide between these two - I think the key difference here comes down to a slight prestige boost (?) vs. a better location (?) I enjoy hiking, skiing, and skateboarding, so overall I think Colorado has a better location for me, but I'm not sure on the finer points of how Aurora vs. St. Louis compare weather-wise and city-wise. I've heard both campuses are gorgeous, and WashU pointed out nature accessibility on my interview day, so I'm not sure how much Colorado is actually beating WashU here.

I also don't want to close any doors regarding possibly gunning for more competitive specialties down the line (specifically surgical subspecialties like NSGY, plastics, ortho, hate to be cliche haha), but I also want to prioritize my happiness and quality of life as best I can. I'm not particularly interested in high-powered academics - running a lab and writing grants sounds like my idea of hell. For now I see myself going into medicine to be a clinician, so I'm not sure how much WashU vs. Colorado's prestige matters for me, but also I've heard that Step 1 going P/F means school prestige might matter more in match.

I'm also possibly interested in matching back into CA - I grew up in SoCal and would like to return to the state for residency if possible. I have no financial aid package info yet, but I am lucky in that my parents have offered some financial assistance so I'm not prioritizing tuition as a factor here. From what I've heard though WashU typically gives more aid than CUSOM, so I would estimate the total cost to be lower there...

Colorado (CUSOM)
Pros

• 1-year P/F preclinical (seems to free up more time for research, away rotations, electives, etc.)
• Beautiful campus, hospitals/rotations within walking distance
• Denver Health is a huge safety net with a diverse and underserved patient population
• Great regional reputation - not sure if this applies nationally?
• Only med school in the state - would this meaningfully increase opportunities?
• Some matching back into CA
• Denver is a super fun city with lots to do, touring artists come through often
• 300 days of sunshine, winters would probably be less bitterly cold than in St. Louis
• Amazing hiking, skiing, and camping in the area - though most stuff is an hour drive or more out of Aurora, and I'm not sure if I'll have as much time for this stuff during school?
• Medical Spanish opportunities are plentiful, between Hispanic population and school's programs like SABES
• NIH funded - from my impression, their research is not as strong overall as WashU's but might be 'good enough' to get me where I need
• Students seem to be pretty happy and well-adjusted, but I'm not sure how much of this is because interview days are elaborate advertisements by the schools...

Cons

• Relatively new and untested curriculum
• Internal ranking + AOA
• Seems to match highly into primary care
• Clinical years are H/HP/P/F
• Not as prestigious (?) as WashU
• I've heard Aurora can be sketchy in some areas
• Steep OOS tuition / higher COL overall

WashU
Pros

• Reliably matches competitive surgical subspecialties more than average (NSGY, ortho, plastics, etc.) Specifically I've heard their neurosurgery research and residency program are both very strong.
• 1.5 year P/F preclinical (again, frees up more time for ECs, away rotations, etc.)
• NIH funded world-class research, top 10 prestige (could help regarding connections / matching?)
• Beautiful campus, most hospitals close by (walking or short driving distance)
• Barnes-Jewish and St. Louis Children's are excellent training sites, nationally regarded
• Some nature in the area - probably not as much as CO though, but how much does this matter?
• Overall seems to have more people match into specialties proportionately
• Smaller class size of 104 - how much would this even matter though? Colorado has 155 students.
• Likely lower cost of living, as well as lower tuition overall.

Cons

• Possible gunner culture? Not sure how true this is since the Gateway Curriculum started.
• Relatively new and untested curriculum
• Clinical years are H/HP/P/F
• No idea if they match back to CA well - worse / better than Colorado?
• St. Louis seems to get a worse / less "exciting" vibe than Denver
• I've heard St. Louis can be sketchy - possibly worse than Aurora? But also students have said if you stick to campus / the better parts downtown you'll be alright?
• Worse winters than Colorado (?), possibly more humid summers than CO as well (?)

Summary: I am a chronic overthinker looking for insight on what really matters in choosing between these medical schools.

 

[chilly_md]

You’re not from Colorado, but it is important to go somewhere you’ll be happy at. I think St Louis still has a lot to offer as a large city and I saw they have some kind of skiing at Hidden Valley. You should probably go to WashU. Matching is mostly on you and they certainly would be viewed as well as anybody else when you try to get back to CA.

The humidity thing is definitely true from what I’ve heard.

 

[ihoop24]

If WashU is cheaper, I would go there. Prestige + research opportunities are better, although Colorado definitely has what you need if you decide to go there. We have mild winters here in CO and there is hardly any humidity. I would say CO wins in terms of nature and Aurora is not that far from most hiking, skiing, etc. It just depends how important those factors are in your decision.

 

[MDMechEngr]

"Colorado tuition - 83K/yr without aid"

My best friend goes to CO. The 2021 tuition is $67K and the year before was the same. So, your source is incorrect.

 

[whenthelightsgo_OUT]

Colorado... 1 year pre-clinical easily.

If you are 100% you want to go back to CA then go to Washu.

But with a 79 LizzyM... *shudders* You will be successful anywhere.

 

[MDMechEngr]

School of Medicine

See the cost of tuition and various fees required to attend the School of Medicine.

www.cuanschutz.edu

From the school of medicine website directly. 83K for non residents vs. 67K for residents with asterisks for when it applies. My friend was offered tuition of ~80K two years ago coming from OOS and declined them, regardless of what their policy was.

Even with similar tuitions, I opt WashU

If you read the explanation under **

"**Medical MD Non-Resident Rate - "This will only be charged if the non-resident student voluntarily chooses to withdraw from medical school after completing the first year for any reason other than medical disability. The student will be obligated to pay the School of Medicine the difference between the non-resident tuition that would have been assessed and the tuition and accountable student support fee."

Another words: What they bill OOS students and what OOS pay every year is $67K. if OOS drop out for reason stated above, they are billed the difference ($83-$67). This was explained to my friend when they received the financial details from CU. It kind a gives you an incentive to not flunk out. Not sure why CU does not explain it better because this tuition info is not clear at all. All accepted OOS students on the pre-med CU thread are aware of this.

 

[girlwithagoal]

I

If you read the explanation under **

"**Medical MD Non-Resident Rate - "This will only be charged if the non-resident student voluntarily chooses to withdraw from medical school after completing the first year for any reason other than medical disability. The student will be obligated to pay the School of Medicine the difference between the non-resident tuition that would have been assessed and the tuition and accountable student support fee."

Another words: What they bill OOS students and what OOS pay every year is $67K. if OOS drop out for reason stated above, they are billed the difference ($83-$67). This was explained to my friend when they received the financial details from CU. It kind a gives you an incentive to not flunk out. Not sure why CU does not explain it better because this tuition info is not clear at all. All accepted OOS students on the pre-med CU thread are aware of this.

If you keep reading on that same page, and click on "School of Medicine" in the last table on the page, it says the below. Out of state CU students are paying this extra $26k/year already, it's not assessed later on. The 1 year preclin curriculum at CU is amazing but at this cost, OP is better off going to WashU.

Students in professional health care programs at the Anschutz Medical Campus that are nonresidents at the time of their enrollment participate in the Accountable Student Program and sign a contract to pay this support fee. The program applies to both nonresident and resident students who started the program as nonresidents. This fee is split between Fall and Spring.

 

[MDMechEngr]

I

If you keep reading on that same page, and click on "School of Medicine" in the last table on the page, it says the below. Out of state CU students are paying this extra $26k/year already, it's not assessed later on. The 1 year preclin curriculum at CU is amazing but at this cost, OP is better off going to WashU.

Students in professional health care programs at the Anschutz Medical Campus that are nonresidents at the time of their enrollment participate in the Accountable Student Program and sign a contract to pay this support fee. The program applies to both nonresident and resident students who started the program as nonresidents. This fee is split between Fall and Spring.

Agree OP should attend WashU, but you do not know what you are talking about. if an OOS drop out than they are accountable under the contract to pay the OSS assessment as stated. yes, the suuport fee are paid, but they are rolled into the 67K. LOL. Bottom line: OOS pay 67K for tuition each year, not 83K.

 

[efle]

WashU, given your interest in matching CA and/or surgical specialties. If you hold up recent match lists side by side in things like ortho, plastics, neurosurg I think you'll see a big difference

 

[soporspelare]

Thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts so far - I've been hellishly busy with work so I've only had time to lurk the thread. I really appreciate the time everyone has taken to answer.

With regards to where I'm at decision-wise, I should offer some more context here. I've been attempting to decide whether or not to write WashU a letter of intent while I wait from a decision from them, as I interviewed a while ago. I've read almost every thread that comes up on SDN's and reddit's search when it comes to LOIs and I understand the debate over whether or not they meaningfully increase application chances, but regardless I wanted the peace of mind in knowing that I did everything I did to get to the best place for me. Some additional context here - I interviewed at UCSF, my dream school, on their first interview day early in September, and while I was waiting for a decision I took the advice of those who said a pre-decision LOI meant little, and I proceeded to get rejected in December. In addition, Dean Ratts (the admissions dean for WashU) explicitly said on WashU's interview day that "we want to know if we're your #1", so I figured a letter of intent was at least worth a shot. I really wanted to feel 100% sure about committing to WashU if I was writing them an intent letter, and avoid the possibility of burning a bridge and effectively lying, so I originally posted this thread to really see I felt comfortable with that decision.

Based on all the feedback here, I decided to send the letter of intent a few days ago and be OK with whatever the outcome ends up being. I'm honestly still not sure which school I would prefer at this point - I've continued to agonize over how much I truly value the prestige vs. the projected cost difference vs. the weather, etc. I was able to speak with a couple of current CU and WashU med students, who both reiterated all the amazing and incredible opportunities at both of their programs, and who all essentially reassured me that there was no wrong choice here, and that the work I put in during med school will play a much larger role in my future specialty chances than the specific name of the institution I attend. So with that I think I'm just going to try and enjoy the rest of my gap year before the wild ride begins, and whether or not I get the WashU A I'll probably be able to find ways to succeed in the environment I end up in.

 

[efle]

Thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts so far - I've been hellishly busy with work so I've only had time to lurk the thread. I really appreciate the time everyone has taken to answer.

With regards to where I'm at decision-wise, I should offer some more context here. I've been attempting to decide whether or not to write WashU a letter of intent while I wait from a decision from them, as I interviewed a while ago. I've read almost every thread that comes up on SDN's and reddit's search when it comes to LOIs and I understand the debate over whether or not they meaningfully increase application chances, but regardless I wanted the peace of mind in knowing that I did everything I did to get to the best place for me. Some additional context here - I interviewed at UCSF, my dream school, on their first interview day early in September, and while I was waiting for a decision I took the advice of those who said a pre-decision LOI meant little, and I proceeded to get rejected in December. In addition, Dean Ratts (the admissions dean for WashU) explicitly said on WashU's interview day that "we want to know if we're your #1", so I figured a letter of intent was at least worth a shot. I really wanted to feel 100% sure about committing to WashU if I was writing them an intent letter, and avoid the possibility of burning a bridge and effectively lying, so I originally posted this thread to really see I felt comfortable with that decision.

Based on all the feedback here, I decided to send the letter of intent a few days ago and be OK with whatever the outcome ends up being. I'm honestly still not sure which school I would prefer at this point - I've continued to agonize over how much I truly value the prestige vs. the projected cost difference vs. the weather, etc. I was able to speak with a couple of current CU and WashU med students, who both reiterated all the amazing and incredible opportunities at both of their programs, and who all essentially reassured me that there was no wrong choice here, and that the work I put in during med school will play a much larger role in my future specialty chances than the specific name of the institution I attend. So with that I think I'm just going to try and enjoy the rest of my gap year before the wild ride begins, and whether or not I get the WashU A I'll probably be able to find ways to succeed in the environment I end up in.

Given your stats and LOI, I will be very surprised if you don't get admitted at WUSTL SOM. Good luck, correct decision!