WashU vs Mayo MN

Started by yeahbaby
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yeahbaby

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Okay all I am pulling my hair out, I really need some help deciding which program to put #1 and which to put #2, The choices are WashU and Mayo, does anyone know how they compare as programs in and of themselves and what have you heard about them.

By the way both said they were ranking me within the appropriate number range so that I will rank there, but i'm not holding my breath.

Please, Please help if you have any real info or insight!
 
I'd say those are probably the two best programs in the Midwest. I canceled my interview at both these programs purely based on location so this is all hearsay but:

Mayo is better know among the general public and patients getting VIPs. As such they have multiple $200,000 paintings on the walls, $200,000 painos for patients to play etc. It seems more teaching oriented as the attendings really want to teach. Big downside, obviosly is a city whose major highlight is underground tunnels. of course i'd be packed in there like a rat w/ -21 degree temperature. i heard the tunnels are pretty nice but that is the only attraction. i sure hope you are married w/ children for this city.

I have yet to read anything bad about Wash U. They seem to be more research and academically oriented. UCSF aside, Wash U is head and shoulders above the rest in NIH funding: http://grants.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/anesthesiology04.htm

So in conclusion if you can handle Rochester and want an awesome clinical education go to Mayo. If you want to do research or academia or like st. loius, then go there.
 
maybe I'm out of loop, but I didn't even know Wash U was on the map for anesthesiology. I've never heard anyone talk about it. Still, I bet living in St Louis would kick a$$ all over living in Crotchester.
 
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When you go to an interview dinner and residents paint a bad picture of a program that's a big fat red flag not to go to a program. Afterall I don't think anyone wants to cut down their own program since they chose to go there. That's why I chose not to rank WashU. But...Rochester is in a terrible location, so it's choosing between the lesser of two evils.
 
Seemore Crack said:
When you go to an interview dinner and residents paint a bad picture of a program that's a big fat red flag not to go to a program. Afterall I don't think anyone wants to cut down their own program since they chose to go there. That's why I chose not to rank WashU. But...Rochester is in a terrible location, so it's choosing between the lesser of two evils.
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Please elaborate... Did Wash U residents paint a bad picture of the program? If so what were their complaints? I'm thinking about ranking them highly, so I would love to get the scoop. Thanks.
 
Basically the residents believe that the department has a big favoritism toward the CRNAs. They said they feel like the department only cares about making the CRNAs happy. Its obvious that your going to be overworked at WashU. And what it comes down due is that if I'm going to be staring at a gas machine all night to make some CRNA happy then Im not going to train there. At Mayo, which isn't going to be high on my list either, the CRNAs work to get the residents out on time and for any didactics they have. Thats not the case for WashU. Look... your going to get adequate training anywhere. All this bull**** about this programs better than this one based NIH research or whatever is crap. The two main things someone should look at is #1 location, #2 are the residents happy. Mayo fails #1 and WashU fails #2. Another huge downfall of WashU is the internship. They are easily working over 80 hours a week there doing crap floor work.
 
Seemore Crack said:
When you go to an interview dinner and residents paint a bad picture of a program that's a big fat red flag not to go to a program. Afterall I don't think anyone wants to cut down their own program since they chose to go there. That's why I chose not to rank WashU. But...Rochester is in a terrible location, so it's choosing between the lesser of two evils.
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Thanks for your input, when I went to WashU nobody said or indicated anything bad, so I went back to check out the rumors and still didn't find out much but I didn't talk to a whole lot of residents, just a few. Has anyone else heard anything from a resident?

Thanks
 
yeahbaby said:
Thanks for your input, when I went to WashU nobody said or indicated anything bad, so I went back to check out the rumors and still didn't find out much but I didn't talk to a whole lot of residents, just a few. Has anyone else heard anything from a resident?

Thanks
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I have a friend who is currently a resident there and has no reason to lie to me. He's very happy, and has never mentioned the CRNA thing to me, but I also haven't asked. This is the first I've heard of it. He said his intern year was hell - 10 call months. But for next year, it'll be only 8 according to the PD (if the changes go through, which he said was very likely). He works about 60 - 70 hours a week as a CA-1 which isn't all that bad, especially when you look at it as "you get what you pay for." You're going to get outstanding training there, no doubt. I also talked to another resident who was equally happy (a CA-3). I'm sure there are unhappy people in their program, but that's not exclusive to Wash U. Overall, they do work harded, but I got the feeling that they were also sort of proud of that. Just my impressions. Any input from other would be great!
 
I did my intern year at Wash U in the 4 year program and I did not violate the 80 hour work week-I also don't sense much tension/dissention with the CRNA's-they are both prestigious programs-location is a big issue I would say...
 
Mayo is a world renown institution located in a small town (< 80K) with an incredibly low cost of living. Most institutions of this caliber are located in expensive metropolises. My 2 cents.
 
fuzzy_wuzzy said:
i sure hope you are married w/ children for this city.
QUOTE]

I currently work at the Mayo Clinic with many CRNA's and Anes residents. Mayo does a good job at making sure that you don't work more than 80 hrs a week. Also the CRNA's do a good job at making sure that you are out of the OR.

However, Rochester is a very boring town. If you have a family, it is a great place with many opportunities as for child care (which Mayo will pay for) and housing in a nice suburban area. Also, you can finance anything through Mayo Credit Union without stellar credit scores.

If you are single and want an exciting town to visit, Rochester is not the location for you.

Just my 2 cents.
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I interviewed at WashU late in the season. I didn't get the impression that there was this CRNA proritization. . .of course these can be things that are kept under wraps, but I actually brought up the question about relationship with CRNAs to the residents and I didn't sense any bitterness coming from the residents. Maybe I got an inaccurate impression at WashU, but I thought some of the east coast programs worked harder (which I personally dont mind, but if that's an issue for you. . .). Also, I seem to have gotten a very favorable impression of the built in intern year. There were 2 current interns at dinner and they were all very very happy with it. A couple of the upper-level residents had done it too and they were saying the intern year there is a "must-do". I also know a medicine intern at WashU right now and he loves it there. I may be wrong, but my impression from the brief interview day was that the environment there is generally supportive and collegial. But please correct me if i was totally oblivious to the warning signs.
 
chicamedica said:
I interviewed at WashU late in the season. I didn't get the impression that there was this CRNA proritization. . .of course these can be things that are kept under wraps, but I actually brought up the question about relationship with CRNAs to the residents and I didn't sense any bitterness coming from the residents. Maybe I got an inaccurate impression at WashU, but I thought some of the east coast programs worked harder (which I personally dont mind, but if that's an issue for you. . .). Also, I seem to have gotten a very favorable impression of the built in intern year. There were 2 current interns at dinner and they were all very very happy with it. A couple of the upper-level residents had done it too and they were saying the intern year there is a "must-do". I also know a medicine intern at WashU right now and he loves it there. I may be wrong, but my impression from the brief interview day was that the environment there is generally supportive and collegial. But please correct me if i was totally oblivious to the warning signs.
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Not sure who you talked to but the intern year is brutal. You will learn a ton but will work like a dog.
 
ear-ache said:
Mayo is a world renown institution located in a small town (< 80K) with an incredibly low cost of living. Most institutions of this caliber are located in expensive metropolises. My 2 cents.
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Saint Louis is also dirt cheap.
 
DrRobert said:
Not sure who you talked to but the intern year is brutal. You will learn a ton but will work like a dog.
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Well obviously it's not gonna be chill like some community programs, but the interns thought it was great in that they get plenty of teaching and the environment is supportive, despite the work. Some people dont mind working a little harder and actually learn something. I actually admire that about them.

P.s. To the OP, I should also mention that I liked Mayo as well. Awesome, awesome place, not just for patient care, but for research too. Actually, I'd say the research is what I'm more impressed by at Mayo, than patient care. the patient diversity isn't quite what I was looking for there, since in the long run I'd like to end up in one of the major east or west coast cities. I also dont like the idea of treating celebrities with more service than a layperson. I think every patient should be a VIP. I dont know whether the VIPs are actually given preferential treatment, but we actually got shown a VIP room on the tour, and everyone kept talking about how this VIP or that VIP had been treated here. So I left with that feeling. This would prob be more of an issue on the floors or in the ICU, though. The anesthesia program seemed very very supportive and pretty well structured. Extremely high tech.

BTW, the intern year at Mayo is also a lot of work.
 
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chicamedica said:
I also dont like the idea of treating celebrities with more service than a layperson. I think every patient should be a VIP. I dont know whether the VIPs are actually given preferential treatment, but we actually got shown a VIP room on the tour, and everyone kept talking about how this VIP or that VIP had been treated here. So I left with that feeling. This would prob be more of an issue on the floors or in the ICU, though.
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Mayo does take care of VIPs from all over the place, but they also are a referral area for southern MN and northern Iowa, so you get your fair share of old farmer dudes and other types of non-VIPs.

I'm not a Mayo student but I did a month of gas and also spent a few days on some of the surgical services. I've also known many people who have been patients there. We rotate at some "nice hospitals" at my medical school, but I am impressed by the focus on patient care at Mayo. It seems to be a pervasive part of the culture among all providers/caregivers (docs, nurses medical assistants, etc. etc.) and is applied to all patients, not just VIPs.
 
j fizz said:
Mayo does take care of VIPs from all over the place, but they also are a referral area for southern MN and northern Iowa, so you get your fare share of old farmer dudes and other types of non-VIPs.

I'm not a Mayo student but I did a month of gas and also spent a few days on some of the surgical services. I've also known many people who have been patients there. We rotate at some "nice hospitals" at my medical school, but I am impressed by the focus on patient care at Mayo. It seems to be a pervasive part of the culture among all providers/caregivers (docs, nurses medical assistants, etc. etc.) and is applied to all patients, not just VIPs.
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cool, i'm glad to hear that. 👍
 
toxic-megacolon said:
Saint Louis is also dirt cheap.
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True, true! Especially when you compare St. Louis to Boston, NYC, SF, ect. But St. Louis is a large city that is rated as the most dangerous city (of its size of 100,000 to 499,999 people) and the 3rd most dangerous city overall (Camden was #1 and Detroit #2). Rochester's crime rate is miniscule compared to St. Louis. Admittedly, I was a paramedic in St. Louis in the early 90's, so my previous experiences may be coloring my opinions.

And not to split hairs, but Rochester's cost-of-living is 7% less than St. Louis.
http://www.morganquitno.com/cit06pop.htm#25

... and concerning the prelim year at mayo;
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=254454
 
I volunteered at the Mayo Clinic Hospital in Phoenix for 18 months from 2002-2004 in outpatient admitting. I was actually quite surprised to see the variety of patients. Although you get different demographics than perhaps NYC, I would never have applied the "VIP" label after all of the interaction I had during my experience there. I only saw a few "celebrities" in all my time there. If I were to imagine a downside, it would be the lack of pediatric exposure. From what I have read, Mayo anesthesia residents rotate at affiliated hospitals to get their peds experience.

My observations and experiences may differ from even the other Mayo campuses (Rochester or Jacksonville).
 
ear-ache said:
True, true! Especially when you compare St. Louis to Boston, NYC, SF, ect. But St. Louis is a large city that is rated as the most dangerous city (of its size of 100,000 to 499,999 people) and the 3rd most dangerous city overall (Camden was #1 and Detroit #2). Rochester's crime rate is miniscule compared to St. Louis. Admittedly, I was a paramedic in St. Louis in the early 90's, so my previous experiences may be coloring my opinions.

And not to split hairs, but Rochester's cost-of-living is 7% less than St. Louis.
http://www.morganquitno.com/cit06pop.htm#25

... and concerning the prelim year at mayo;
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=254454
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I'm not disagreeing with you. St. Louis continues to be one of the scariest (and segregated) cities in the country.
 
Wash. U. was the sole American institution picked to be on the cover of [IAnesthesiology[/I] this month.
 
There are great neighborhoods in STL, and not so great neighborhoods. Clayton, LaDue, the CWE to a lesser degree, Webster Groves, Kirkwood, Crestwood are all pretty nice. If you want slightly less safe, but with great restaurants, the South Grand is a great neighborhood too. If you want to live in the Mogadishu of north america, then East St Louis in Illinois might suit you.
 
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