Wasn't able to honor psych -- how many doors have I closed?

[Monocles]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently an M3 at a state school in the midwest and we got our shelf score back today. Unfortunately despite my best efforts in studying I only managed to get a 50th percentile. Our school requires both honors on the shelf (defined as 85th percentile and above) as well as clinical honors (defined as 50% of evals have to be honors) in order to get overall honors.

I did well on the rotation and got unanimous honors eval from every single resident and attending that I've worked with. However with the way that our grades are set up, the only grade that shows up overall will be a "pass". The comments from my evaluators will still show up on the MSPE but I've heard that most program directors only look at your class rank from that letter.

Can someone please help me put things into perspective on how much of a setback this is? I'm assuming that most of the top programs in psych are now out of reach. In terms of other factors, I have a very mediocre step 1 score but I am doing psychiatry research with the faculty.

Thanks for your time.

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[OldPsychDoc]

It will only matter for the programs that screen for that. I don't even have time to get to poring over transcripts--I 1) make sure Boards look ok; 2) skim the PS and CV for indications of true interest in psych; and 3) zero in on the LORs, especially from psych. So at least at one program, the door is still open... 😉

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

For the vast majority of programs this will move your rank position from ridiculously reachable to very reachable. A split second after match day, your shelf test performance will completely cease to make any difference to anybody including you.

 

[vistaril]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently an M3 at a state school in the midwest and we got our shelf score back today. Unfortunately despite my best efforts in studying I only managed to get a 50th percentile. Our school requires both honors on the shelf (defined as 85th percentile and above) as well as clinical honors (defined as 50% of evals have to be honors) in order to get overall honors.

I did well on the rotation and got unanimous honors eval from every single resident and attending that I've worked with. However with the way that our grades are set up, the only grade that shows up overall will be a "pass". The comments from my evaluators will still show up on the MSPE but I've heard that most program directors only look at your class rank from that letter.

Can someone please help me put things into perspective on how much of a setback this is? I'm assuming that most of the top programs in psych are now out of reach. In terms of other factors, I have a very mediocre step 1 score but I am doing psychiatry research with the faculty.

Thanks for your time.

is this poster serious?

This ranks right up there with the guy trying to buy a house who has a 790 credit score, makes 450k a year, has 2 million in liquid assets, and is worried about his ability to get a mortgage because he was 5 days late on a credit card payment one time....and he is looking for a 75,000 mortgage.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

I used to think I was an extensible (or collapsible I guess) piece of male anatomy until you came around Vistaril.

Not only is this poster serious, but the poster's anxiety is both totally valid and understandable given the pressure cooker environment of medical school.

That said, the poster's concerns are unfounded. You don't have much to worry about. As psychiatrists most of us understand the utter BS often involved in clerkship grades so don't pay much attention to it. We care more about what people have to say about you, demonstrated interest in psych, and your overall competence. Besides 50% of all US Allos means you did at least average in a highly selected group. Kind of like being an 'average starting running back' in the NFL. Still not too shabby lol.

 

[TexasPhysician]

No doors closed

 

[Monocles]

OldPsychDoc, may I ask which region of the country is your program is in? 🙂

MacDonaldTriad and masterofmonkeys, thank you. This makes me feel a lot better about things.

Vistaril, sorry if my post came off as ridiculous, but I was legitimately concerned at the time. The reason I posted this is because there's a substantial amount of conflicting information on the necessity of getting "honors" in the 3rd year psych rotation. For example, the search function brought up the following quotes:

i can assure you that you stand a good chance of getting invites to all of those programs as long as you have honors/HPs in psych and medicine. good pubs won't hurt either. - See more at: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...re-for-top-residencies.1062821/#post-15074149

Regarding how to impress--A 250 on step 1 doesn't hurt. Publications and a sincere interest in research are top flight stuff. AOA would be awesome. A pure string clinical honors as well. All the stuff that impresses PD's the world over.

Shoot for 10-15 points above average on the steps for top programs. It's not a rule or something anyone will state, just common sense. If you don't make that goal you are by no means out of the running for those programs.

Who you are, as has been said above is probably more important in psych than it is elsewhere. - See more at: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...y-chances-thread.1009730/page-5#post-14978203

 

[OldPsychDoc]

OldPsychDoc, may I ask which region of the country is your program is in? 🙂

Midwest.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Regarding "what people want to see," one of the things that became apparent to me in going through the application and match process is that more so than for college and medical school admissions, individual people, with their own opinions, biases, and preferences, read applications and thus offer interviews. One program director might not care at all about an MS3 psych clerkship grade (insofar as it is passing), whereas another might over-value it. That said, many medical schools are trending towards straight pass/fail for the third year. I earned an "A" in my MS3 psych clerkship (my medical school still gives letter grades), but only one interviewer brought it up.

 

[Extralong]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently an M3 at a state school in the midwest and we got our shelf score back today. Unfortunately despite my best efforts in studying I only managed to get a 50th percentile. Our school requires both honors on the shelf (defined as 85th percentile and above) as well as clinical honors (defined as 50% of evals have to be honors) in order to get overall honors.

I did well on the rotation and got unanimous honors eval from every single resident and attending that I've worked with. However with the way that our grades are set up, the only grade that shows up overall will be a "pass". The comments from my evaluators will still show up on the MSPE but I've heard that most program directors only look at your class rank from that letter.

Can someone please help me put things into perspective on how much of a setback this is? I'm assuming that most of the top programs in psych are now out of reach. In terms of other factors, I have a very mediocre step 1 score but I am doing psychiatry research with the faculty.

Thanks for your time.

You did not close any metaphorical doors, just take seat on a metaphorical couch and relax. During my interview days, I don't remember a single person bringing up my clerkship scores. At some interviews it was obvious that they didn't even read my application, even better, one interviewer picked up the wrong chart and started asking me questions about another interviewer's info. Hilarious!

 

[notdeadyet]

Very little of this process boils down to one thing.

Programs like to see that you've honored your psychiatry clerkship. They also like to see you've honored other clerkships. They like to see passing all board exams on the first go. They also like to see high scores. They like to see good letters of recommendation from people who know you. Even better if they know the person writing the letter of recommendation.

The applicants that are AOA, went to a top tier med school, honored every clerkship, scored >240 on their steps, published first authors in good journals, and have slobbering LORs from biggies in the field are very, very rare animals. In fact, I would reckon that in any given year there are probably 10-20 of them.

The rest of us are humans. Some didn't honor psych but got great letters because they performed well otherwise. Some have a poor Step 1 but had great clerkship reports because they're just bad test takers. Some folks went to a DO program no one has ever heard of because they lacked a great medical school application due to wild college years, but tore the place up through talent and hard work.

There are lots of places to falter in the process and most of us have areas of our application we wish were better. This will not limit you from likely matching into a program that has the capacity to make you an amazing psychiatrist if you are willing to keep an open mind, apply broadly, and work hard when you get there.