Watchout!! Here comes foreign labor

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Oh my goodness all the UK folks who told me that they attended 2 yrs of kindergarten between 4-6 were all lying to me! And about 1/4 of my med school classmates who claimed they finished their degrees in 3 yrs or under were also lying to me!

Thank goodness that we have smart intellectuals such as yourself to point this out. I am truly speechless! :laugh:
Hell if I know. What school do you go to? The MSAR should quickly verify that only 75% of your classmates had bachelor's degrees upon matriculation.

And if all your UK pals did go to kindergarten, why'd you leave it out?
 
I never heard of this moral responsibility before..or is this something you are stating as some kind of assumed truth? If I don't pay taxes (like most medical students for example), does the government have no moral responsibility toward me? How about a foreign medical student vs. an American born Welfare resipient...who gets the moral jackpot from the government? I'm just trying to sort through this notion that if one pays taxes, then one is deserving of the goverment's responsibilty to be looked after before those who don't pay taxes...I think there are a boat load of tax-paying folks in New Orleans who feel they are more deserving of the goverment's largesse then say people who want a new government building in Baghdad...okay, even I can recognize that I'm so far off subject that I should now shut up....so, how about that Match?

In a bid to avoid using too many keystrokes to respond to what could be the most overt and unfortunate display of a lack of understanding of what taxes are, let me tell you that you probably payed taxes today if you purchased anything(including food).
 
Hell if I know. What school do you go to? The MSAR should quickly verify that only 75% of your classmates had bachelor's degrees upon matriculation.

And if all your UK pals did go to kindergarten, why'd you leave it out?

Did I say "attended colleges for 3 yrs or under" or did I say "finished their degrees in 3 yrs or under"? I think reading carefully before answering a question will be a good skill to have. :laugh:

Did I say "all" the UK pals I know went to 2 yrs kindergarten classes or did I say "all the UK folks who told me ..."? Anyway I don't consider kindergarten to be significant education. Maybe you do but then you should tell us if you have attended pre-kindergarten day-care too :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Oh, btw, if number of years is so important to you, UK also has both 4 and 5 yr post-bachelor's medical degree programs. So will those programs produce better doctors than ours? I don't think so.
 
I'm new to this thread, so maybe this has been said already, but it is more likely that percentage of US citizens in US residencies will increase in the near future, not decrease, despite increases in foreign applications. The number of Medicare funded residency positions was capped in 1997 by the BBA; with an increasing number of US medical graduates (including MD, but primarily DO), and an institutional bias in favor of American graduates, a greater percentage of residency slots will be filled by US grads. This is a good thing for the population, as this will not push out quality American medical graduates from US residencies, but will push out the weakest of applicants (that is, crappy US grads will find it tough to get slots, and will have to settle for the least desirable residency slots). While not likely good for the future of family medicine as a specialty, I would argue this is good for the US at large.
 
Did I say "attended colleges for 3 yrs or under" or did I say "finished their degrees in 3 yrs or under"? I think reading carefully before answering a question will be a good skill to have. :laugh:

Did I say "all" the UK pals I know went to 2 yrs kindergarten classes or did I say "all the UK folks who told me ..."? Anyway I don't consider kindergarten to be significant education. Maybe you do but then you should tell us if you have attended pre-kindergarten day-care too :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Oh, btw, if number of years is so important to you, UK also has both 4 and 5 yr post-bachelor's medical degree programs. So will those programs produce better doctors than ours? I don't think so.
Damn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentive
 
None of my friends in dental school seem to have this bend over and take it mentality

Exactly. You dont see dentists giving up their scope of practice to assistants. You dont see dentists rallying for universal dental care. You dont see dentists bowing to insurance companies.


and consequently I predict that in 20 years, general practice dentists will be making FAR MORE than general practice docs

YOu dont have to wait 20 years, thats happening RIGHT NOW. the average dentist salary has been higher than the average medical GP salary for 2-5 years now.

pharmacists making more than GP physicians sometime down the road either.

Its no coincidence that pharmacists are trying to move in on our turf. They want insurance reimbursement for drug counseling. Hell some of them are trying to start up their own clinics for blood pressure checks. As more and more non-doctors try to capture those Medicare dollars, that means less of it will go to docs and overall reimbursement will decline to pay for these outsiders.
 
Exactly. You dont see dentists giving up their scope of practice to assistants. You dont see dentists rallying for universal dental care. You dont see dentists bowing to insurance companies.

You also don't see a lot of life threatening dental emergencies. Therein lies the difference.
 
Interesting thread. I must say at first glance, the OP's assertion that US grads are in danger of losing out on competetive specialty residencies because of FMGs seemed pretty far-fetched, and the numbers from the match seem to bear this out. I do however feel a little conflicted on the broader issue of immigration ploicy--I have always admired the socialized systems of countries like Denmark where both medical education and healthcare are subsidized entirely by the government, but the fact is, such a system would never work here unless the US adopted a similarly restrictive immigration policy. All of these countries that have such liberal systems have accepted the basic truth that the only way to pay for it is to take care of citizens first and therefore it is very difficult to become a citizen of most European countries. You cannot have the government footing the bill for such large expenditures and at the same time throwing its doors open to all comers. So while I love the idea of living in a country where all have access to healthcare and education without regard to economic status, I really see no way this could be economically feasible unless the US drastically reduced the numbers of immigrants. Our open immigration policy, however, as others have pointed out, is one of the things that has always made our country great and allowed a level of intellectual and industrial acheivement that otherwise would not have been possible. I suspect I am not the only person with such ambivalence towards the immigration issue and perhaps that is part of the reason it is such a fractious one in our society.
 
In a bid to avoid using too many keystrokes to respond to what could be the most overt and unfortunate display of a lack of understanding of what taxes are, let me tell you that you probably payed taxes today if you purchased anything(including food).

well, but any IMG on her 45th interview or over here doing a clinical is also paying Sales taxes...I'm not sure what this adds to the moral high ground of the American student...
 
.... Rather than discriminating according to nationality (just as bad as racism IMHO) raise the standards of your medical education....

Over and out.

And lower the tuition.
 
Now when I said the same thing in regards to research funding, many folks in the MD/PhD were highly upset!

Here's the deal. I'm sure there are others who agree but are too afraid of not being politically correct.

The two situations arent exactly alike as FMG have finished their basic training and are applying for positions as residents here so that they can stay and practice here. Foreign doc students often want to complete their training here and return to their home countries.

I didnt read that thread but I dont see a problem with US citizens/residents being favored for grants. I do think that foreign students who express a desire, and commit to, staying in the US for a certain amount of time and perhaps teaching, should be viewed on an equal footing. JMO.

Personally I dont have a problem with foreign students or residents because immigration has been America's greatest assets. Too many people complain about the unskilled masses immigrating but here we have skilled, potential tax paying, educated people who want to come here. We should not be turning them away.
 
Point taken on the first part. I am a believer that state schools have a right to give preference to people who show a commitment to work in the state if they are using state money to cover the program (which is typically true). As for private schools, they can do whatever they want with private funds IMO.

Even private schools receive a lot of government funding. Thats not even taking into consideration PGY training.
 
Oh, actual facts have never swayed alarmists from their pet cause...

For those who didn't read the actual pdf:

"Despite (a 9 percent increase) in the number of international medical graduates (IMGs) applying to U.S. residency programs through the Match...the success rate for U.S. students, about 94 percent, has remained unchanged for the past 25 years."
 
I heard the number of applicants in the last match almost doubled because of an increase in foreign doctors applying. This was due to the tightening of work requirements by U.K and Australia forcing them to turn to the U.S.

Erm. Australia is actively recruiting foreign docs because they have a shortage.

http://www.doctorconnect.gov.au/

👍

Plus I don't know WHY any physician in his/her right mind wouldn't want to work in what is possibly the closest thing to paradise this world has (except maybe Switzerland). Just watch out for the poisonous beasties. I hear those cane toads are a real problem.
 
Erm. Australia is actively recruiting foreign docs because they have a shortage.

http://www.doctorconnect.gov.au/

👍

Plus I don't know WHY any physician in his/her right mind wouldn't want to work in what is possibly the closest thing to paradise this world has (except maybe Switzerland). Just watch out for the poisonous beasties. I hear those cane toads are a real problem.

The problem is it is very difficult to get a long term unrestricted license. They actively recruit doctors to work a year or so in a rural area and then leave.

The only real path I've uncovered wasn't instituted until recently. If you are a general practitioner (think FM) then you can apply for a position and then while working in a rural area on a probationary licence you have to pass a series of Aussie exams. Then after 5 years in the same rural area (no moving states now . . . the clock starts all over) you might qualify for an unrestricted licence.

Forget about a residency position. Forget about specialty training being accepted (Australia has a system where you do two years of general medicine before specializing, and therefore any foriegn physicians need to have completed the two general medicine years in addition to their residency training. They use this as a way to squeeze cheap labor from their newly graduated physicians, who by and large, did a combined 6 year undergrad/med program.) Some schools have started offering a 4 year postbac med degree, but thus far it doesn't seem to be as respected as the tradition 6 years straight through.
 
(Helpful Info)

Hmm. Good to know. I'd love to go back down there but I'm not sure how the rules would apply for a US-trained Aussie citizen. . . 😕 I e-mailed the organization to ask but they basically said "Um. Bother us later when you're closer to graduation".

I have nothing else to add to this thread. Carry on. 😳
 
Hmm. Good to know. I'd love to go back down there but I'm not sure how the rules would apply for a US-trained Aussie citizen. . . 😕 I e-mailed the organization to ask but they basically said "Um. Bother us later when you're closer to graduation".

I have nothing else to add to this thread. Carry on. 😳

I imagine they would be friendlier to an Aussie citizen. I entertained thoughts of Oz or NZ for a time, and did a lot of research on how to get a position and ultimately came away frusterated. It's entirely possible there are easier ways to do this that aren't publicized (NZ for instance basically reserves the right to accredit anyone they want, following an examination of credentials, etc I suppose so if a respected surgeon etc wants to teach at a university they could). Also there hasn't been much interest by US trained physicians in making a long term move. If that changes it is possible a more accomodating pathway could open (or not, who knows?).
 
This trnd is not only a problem for USA, developing countries face serious shortages of qualified medical personell cos all of them migrate, mostly to Aust and NZ from Fiji. Yes they have toughened their immigration policies, but it still does not even slow them down in taking the best people in the medical field from here, to do work that their own people dont want to, such as working in the middle of the outback.. The government is trying to solve this by only allowing govt sponsored student to do MBBS and then having them serve a 6 year bond, but after that, most still migrate!🙁 Ahh well, the pull of the almighty dollar!
 
This assertion that "foreign labor" is taking over in medicine is total bs, and is baseless. According to the 2007 match stats, FMG's in the match went down in almost EVERY field, and this has been the trend for YEARS. This includes both american FMG's as well as non citizen FMG's. Also, there was a statement about medicine becoming all about customer service and how patients complain about accents, not delay in diagnosing a murmur. This is also completely untrue, as one of the leading reasons for medical lawsuits is now delay in diagnosis. People in this thread need to read more and base their assertions on facts.
Personally I don't care if FMGs were to get better spots if they were truly competitive. If they can learn medicine in a tongue that is not their own and practice it well, then we need them because they are the cream of the crop. The US government subsidizes about $10k/year per resident for salary, and it is a well spent investment on both citizens as well as guests to the states, as they give back way more.

sscooterguy
 
hey all, i did a search for my sn hoping to find my posts and this forum popped up, and now i feel compelled to throw my two cents in, tho i havent read much of this thread

first off - i think american medical schools do have strengths that foreign medical schools may lack. i'm not saying this is true across the board, but it cannot be overlooked that foreign medical students spend significantly more time studying for an exam of medical knowledge (usmle) and don't do quite as well as Americans. and i'm not sure if the language barrier is a sufficient argument.

second, most foreign medical students will willingly admit that american medical students work much harder than their foreign counterparts, especially when on rotations. the number of hours put in, on the floor, time spent learning, doesn't quite compare.

third, i feel the best students should get residency training. training is an effort of an institution, not a nation. as such, if school X believes that the foreign grad is superior to their american applicant, they can certainly go foriegn. however, it seems to me that foreigners are at a distinct disadvantage - lower board scores, possible problems with communication (unable to speak english), fewer hours of training in medical school, age difference (many don't apply till later), which brings the trend towards american students. its all part of the competitive process; medicine is a competitive field, and should be kept that way. if the majority of funds to train that individual are derived from national sources (ie taxes) then efforts should be made to give preference to american graduates. i believe there is not a dearth of qualified american medical graduates.

in the end, a foreign graduate coming to america and training here, in all likelihood, will stay here, pay taxes here, and put in the necessary effort. if one doesn't like the concept of competition, it brings to question what he/she is doing in medicine, but should also be pleased to note that foreign students are undeniably at a disadvantage, and few successfully compete anyway.

i say this confidently because in my culture, it is common to have very large families. as such, i have many cousins who go to medical school in australia, germany, england, and canada. none seem to compare to american medical school standards. then again, they get kicked out on a whim whereas american schools tend to graduate their kids. then again, i feel that's an artifact of the four years of undergrad and strict, extremely competitive process to get in in the first place, which doesnt happen in england.

that is all
 
This thread seems to have slightly varied ideas. However, most of you, deep down, seem to really believe that Americans are the best, so screw the rest of the world and pass judgement on people from other countries blindly. You, who have little to no knowledge of living or studying medicine in another country are so quick to jump to conclusions. A doctor in America is the same as a doctor in Germany. Americans are too big headed for their own good and have to learn how to be more accepting of 'foreigners'. The world would still go on without America's existence. Heck, it might even be a hell of a lot better.

I don't disagree that Americans can be bull-headed at times, but to suggest that America is not accepting of foreigners is just plain wrong. Many americans are fighting to allow people to cross our borders ILLEGALLY in order to "have a better life". And the numbers do NOT support your blind accusations. If you so wish I'll get the post for you from the CNN website, but try to defend american's hatred of foreigners after the following: In 2006 the US issued more than 2,000,000 VISAs or varied types to "foreigners". These included work visas, student visas, etc. That is more than the entire european union and russia COMBINED. Now I do not like the idea of illegal immigration, I think that the US corporations have become addicted to cheap foreign labor that only offers a real benefit to the executives. And I don't like the argument that people should be allowed to just waltz accross the border because of hardships (there are extenuating circumstances, for example Darfur because of the mass genocide). However, the idea that someone from mexico sneaks across the border in the middle of the night so that they can send money earned back to their family in mexico hurts the US people and economy. We have to ask ourselves, "Does desire trump the law?". If I really want a new suit for med interviews, and it's far nicer than the one that I have, can I just take it because I wanted it, because I thought I needed it?

Sorry for the tangent, bottom line, the US population may not be supporters of illegal foreigners but the numbers don't lie and no other 1st world country is more supportive to legal foreigners.

And i'm out.
 
Joining this debate late on, I thought I would mention one thing I haven't seen yet. I spent half a year in India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka and found that their educational system allows them to start medical school w/o college. They call college what we call junior/senior years of high school. Medicine is then a 4 (sometimes 5) year degree, awarding a Medical Bachelors. Do they then apply to US residencies?
 
What about foreigners who go into US medical schools? USMG or FMG? I believe around 1% of US med students are not US citizen.
 
Well all you guys getting insecure about FMG"S taking US slots being an FMG I can tell you my experience so that it can addresss your concerns and insecurities. Getting into residency is so hard for an FMG you guys do not realize, and i am talking about IM, FM, psych not surgery, or other big money making stuff. in order to apply i did one year research fellowship in prestigious university without pay, so that i can get the recomendation letters from US physicians, as previous year i was unsuccessful in getting any interview. i applied for probably the least cometitive speciality in usa.
"Oh yes I have the least amount of accent and well versed in english".

Frankly from my country only those people come to usa who wants training in medicine and allied specialities. doctors already know that in USA you can not get surgical or allied residencies so they dont even bother to come. friend of mine was only able to get priliminary surgery so he decided to go back instead staying in USA. so this perception that foreign doctors" are running "amok" to come to usa and take away " American Jobs" is not true, at least in case of my country(south Asian).
out of my class of 160, to my knowledge 7 to 8 people came to USA.

FMG's are part of US medicine for over 40 years and past decade has been the most difficult for getting into residency and things will get tougher in future so do not worry you will be in good shape because no matter how brilliant or exceptional an FMG be he will never be given prefrence over AMG, that is the fact and it applies in all residencies competitive or non competitive alike.do not look at FMG's applications, only 30 to 40 % are able to get a slot and rest go home or do reasearch activities to improve their standings in next match(not to mention Visa odds)

Reason for accepting FMG's in residencies in very simple, it is not purely altrustic or out of love to help people from "3rd world countries". USA produce less med students and have more residency slots mostly in prim care or psych. so AMG's get to choose and compete among all the specilities.left over are competed among fmg's .
After residency We are allowed to remain in USA and practice medicine if we are to work in underserved areas for 3 to 5 years to be eligible for "applying" for green card or permanent resident card.
so you get best and the brightest around the world serving the most underserved people of USA. just to let you guys know even in those underserved areas US physicians are given prefrences and employers have to prove to INS that they are unable to attract AMG's for this job , so that they can sponsor FMG a visa to work.It requires periodic advertisement and paperwork. this whole process is so lengthy and cumbersome it takes 8 to 10 months to complete.

I know USA is increasing the number of medical schools and if the residency slots are not increased then expect the same level of competition and frustration among AMG's to compete for even less competitive residencies.

I think i tried to explain in detail about my understanding how this process works, and i think we all benefit from it, USA gets the best around the world to work in most needed areas, AMG's get to choose what they want and above all pt's in undersevred areas gets much needed healthcare.

"there is only one looser in this whole system which are our native countries, who spent tones of money educating us and later found us leaving them for better prospects"
 
If you read every last post on this thread you will notice that you are the first to imply that foriegners are percieved as less intelligent. all I am sayiing is that American jobs should go to qualified Americans before anyone else. That is what every country does worldwide.
👍
 
The situation in the UK will obviously mean more IMGs apply for jobs in the US, if they don't want to stay at home, which it seems they don't, they are obviously going to find somewhere else to go.

As for saying the UK has closed it's doors to foreign doctors, that's not exactly true. Anyone from the EU can apply for jobs here, it's only those outside the EU that are affected. The reason for this is because, unlike in the US, we have more than enough graduates every year to fill every post so allowing loads of foreign doctors to apply would mean some of our doctors couldn't get jobs at all! If we don't get a job, we don't get full registration with the GMC so aren't even really a fully registered doctor. In the US, you rely on IMGs, you don't have enough doctors so don't knock them. Also, unlike you, up until recently, foreign doctors coming to the UK have applied on an equal footing with UK grads, and now, EU students still do. If a foreign grad in the UK is better than a UK grad, the foreign grad gets the job, they aren't the last priority here like they are in the US. We want the best doctors we can get and if they are willing to come to help us out then we aren't going to bitch about them. We wouldn't have a healthcare system if it wasn't for foreign grads coming over in the beginning and you wouldn't have much of one either if it wasn't for foreign grads. I know it is annoying thinking of US jobs going to non US grads but that isn't really the situation, you all know how hard it is for an IMG to get a decent job in the US so really you don't have anything to worry about.
 
This is not entirely accurate:

In the UK at least, students have to go thru one additional year of secondary school before they can be considered for a 6 yr medical degree program. In the US, lot of medical schools will consider students without a bachelor's degree. So in the case of number of years of education it is
UK : 13 + 6 = 19
US : 12 + 3 + 4 = 19

Of course our 19 beats their 19 :laugh:

This isn't exactly right, in the UK we actually do 14 years of general school, and 5 or 6 years of med school = 19-20. Now we have a lot of people doing med post grad so instead it's 14 years of school, 3-4 years of degree, then 4 or 5 years of medical school = 21-23.
 
second, most foreign medical students will willingly admit that american medical students work much harder than their foreign counterparts, especially when on rotations. the number of hours put in, on the floor, time spent learning, doesn't quite compare.

That's probably because in most countries med school lasts 5-6 years instead of 4 so students can afford to spread things out more and do a bit less each day.
 
Everyone does know that we have more residency spots than applicants and that virtually EVERY AMG without the types of red flags that make everyone question whether you should be a doctor gets preference. More FMGs hurts the other FMGs, as there are more competing for leftover spots. It does nothing to AMGs.
 
Everyone does know that we have more residency spots than applicants and that virtually EVERY AMG without the types of red flags that make everyone question whether you should be a doctor gets preference. More FMGs hurts the other FMGs, as there are more competing for leftover spots. It does nothing to AMGs.

Based on what some poster's rant against foreign labor, I think this point was lost on them.
 
Medicine is still such a upper(ish) class, pedrigree focused professional field, FMGs arent so much competition as they are masses which are actively lowering pay in some microenvironments.

For example, if you are in a primary care field working for the State of California, and getting paid 200K/yr, IF there are 20 FMG applicants with US residencies willing to work for 150K and the state is in a financial crisis..which it is now...you might see a pay cut.

So its not so much they are directly competing for jobs as lowering salaries, almost as bad tho.

Regardless, most affluent private hospitals either take no FMGs on FT staff or severely limit them so for some of us it really is immaterial.
 
Medicine is still such a upper(ish) class, pedrigree focused professional field, FMGs arent so much competition as they are masses which are actively lowering pay in some microenvironments.

For example, if you are in a primary care field working for the State of California, and getting paid 200K/yr, IF there are 20 FMG applicants with US residencies willing to work for 150K and the state is in a financial crisis..which it is now...you might see a pay cut.

So its not so much they are directly competing for jobs as lowering salaries, almost as bad tho.

Regardless, most affluent private hospitals either take no FMGs on FT staff or severely limit them so for some of us it really is immaterial.

i don't agree with your notion of fmg's as massess. FMG's are allowed to work in underserved areas which aready are short of doctors so pays are high , no AMG is competing for those spots. once you get the ever elusive "green card" , then you are at level playing field, no longer bound to visa restrictions. i can negotiate my salary, do my own private practice so if you think i will sacrifice pay just to get a job is not true. if FMG's are the ones responsible for lowering pays then harvard, massgeneral or other university hospital wont be paying miserly salaries to physicians, there is no competition from FMG's in these so called top calss institutes.

It is very unfortunate to hear these misinformed and almost ignorant comments from AMG's. get you facts , before making any assumptions.
 
i don't agree with your notion of fmg's as massess. FMG's are allowed to work in underserved areas which aready are short of doctors so pays are high , no AMG is competing for those spots. once you get the ever elusive "green card" , then you are at level playing field, no longer bound to visa restrictions. i can negotiate my salary, do my own private practice so if you think i will sacrifice pay just to get a job is not true. if FMG's are the ones responsible for lowering pays then harvard, massgeneral or other university hospital wont be paying miserly salaries to physicians, there is no competition from FMG's in these so called top calss institutes.

It is very unfortunate to hear these misinformed and almost ignorant comments from AMG's. get you facts , before making any assumptions.

LMAO..are you for real? University medical centers are the uber FMG HAVENS!

Take a look at any academic roster.

Because Im calling FMGs the masses doesnt reflect on the quality of their skill but the fact there are TONS of them wanting to come to the US.

I have the facts. Facts>all.
Facts ftw. I am a Factoid Nobel Laureate winner. I eat facts with my Wheaties in the morning.
 
LMAO..are you for real? University medical centers are the uber FMG HAVENS!

Take a look at any academic roster.

Because Im calling FMGs the masses doesnt reflect on the quality of their skill but the fact there are TONS of them wanting to come to the US.

I have the facts. Facts>all.
Facts ftw. I am a Factoid Nobel Laureate winner. I eat facts with my Wheaties in the morning.

I do not doubt that there are fmg's in academic institutions, but you can not relate them to lower pays for AMG's and by no means their numbers exceeds AMG's.

If tons of the physicians want to come to usa, until they get into residency they are useless and no threat to physicians job market. Residency slots are determined by AMA. if you replace all FMG's with AMG's for today's residency slots then you still be having the same amount of physicians competing in job market so, the end result will be same. current immigration laws practically excludes FMG's from competing directly with AMG's, no matter where the job is located at. for the concerns of cheap labor it is law that physicians on visa's be guaranteed the same prevailing wage offered to a US citizen, to decrease the lure by employers to hire FMG's.

paying shedule for physicians is determined by insurance companies and Medicare/Medicaid so physicians supply and demand has noting to do with it. except state/govt hospitals.

If your concern is excessive supply of doctors then residency slots should be cut to match the number of graduate from medical schools and let the pt's in most undeserved areas be on lord's mercy . the fancy slogans of "serving humanity", "wants to do good for people" will go down in the drain.
it gives the impression AMG's are more concerned about monetary aspects, rather serving the pts.
 
...If your concern is excessive supply of doctors then residency slots should be cut to match the number of graduate from medical schools and let the pt's in most undeserved areas be on lord's mercy . the fancy slogans of "serving humanity", "wants to do good for people" will go down in the drain.
it gives the impression AMG's are more concerned about monetary aspects, rather serving the pts.

What motivates all the FMG's coming to the US of A? They want to care for the down-trodden among the greedy, lazy, whiney Americans? If they want to truly help people, they would need to start at home. I find it funny that people pretend to think India, Pakistan, etc., have surpluses of doctors and nurses.

And three hundred million people in the US isn't enough to get the work done? Yeah... The people in the US who promote this immigration, people like Bill Gates, the meat packing plant managers, hospital admins. and the rest don't want foreign labor because they are altruistic, but because they are out to increase their profits.
 
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LMAO..are you for real? University medical centers are the uber FMG HAVENS!

Take a look at any academic roster.

Because Im calling FMGs the masses doesnt reflect on the quality of their skill but the fact there are TONS of them wanting to come to the US.

I have the facts. Facts>all.
Facts ftw. I am a Factoid Nobel Laureate winner. I eat facts with my Wheaties in the morning.

FMGs don't lower pay DIRECTLY. It's lowered by the FMG sweat shop residency programs that go for FMG well-trained-non-complaining labor. The number of residencies+spots control the number of graduates which accounts for the competition and pay. Cut some sweat shops down and you'll see the pay rise until another specialty covers the gap by overextending its scope or a midlevel enroaches into the system with the label "underserved".
 
It's entirely possible there are easier ways to do this that aren't publicized (NZ for instance basically reserves the right to accredit anyone they want, following an examination of credentials, etc I suppose so if a respected surgeon etc wants to teach at a university they could). Also there hasn't been much interest by US trained physicians in making a long term move. If that changes it is possible a more accomodating pathway could open (or not, who knows?).

Check out this guy. 🙂
 
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