We are under assault

[lonelobo]

I love how it is always assumed that there's absolutely NO WAY, that enforcing the actual laws we have against illegal immigration could EVER possibly be considered. "That's so radical, man ."

The same people that feel this way also NEVER suggest actually changing immigration laws to say that anyone can come to America, anytime, with any criminal record, un-vaccinated, with any communicable disease, buy a false social security number on the internet, get a drivers license, register to vote, and start collecting government benefits while working under the table for cash and avoiding income tax payments. If that's what you want, MAKE IT LEGAL! What the h--l are you waiting for?

We don't want to build a wall, we don't want to send anyone back, we want to allow tens of millions to enter the country unchecked but somehow strangely, no one ever suggests re-writing the laws to explicitly make all this legal. Make what's going on legal, and if what's going on isn't a problem, the problem is fixed.

Bizarre, that the people that want to block any toughening of enforcement of illegal immigration laws haven't proposed such a thing, don't you think?

No, its not at all bizarre, because that would draw immediate attention to how bat s--t insane it is to allow what's happening to keep happening.

My God, we're screwed up in this country.

I am all for enforcing the law, never said otherwise.
Just love it when people say send them all back.....like that is a practical solution.

Do you think building a wall is really the solution?
I live in this part of the country and the logistics and required funding of actually doing it are incredible.
So we build a wall( either real or virtual) at Mexican Border who is going to fund this Trillion dollar government project?
What do you do about the other 23% of illegal immigrants that come from Asia, Europe, Africa, etc? do we build a wall around Canadian border and all our Coastline

Is illegal immigration a problem?...yes Does the problem get amplified when our economy
is down?....yes

With all the talk about the problem you might be surprised at this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203518404577094722741385882.html

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[stim4u]

nicely stated.

illegals obtain free care, free elementray education, college tuition assistance in my state, and so forth. more entitlements for people that pay nothing. THis does not pertain to illegals that have tax ID numbers, pay taxes, and seek higher education legitamately.

 

[emd123]

I am all for enforcing the law, never said otherwise.
Just love it when people say send them all back.....like that is a practical solution.

Do you think building a wall is really the solution?
I live in this part of the country and the logistics and required funding of actually doing it are incredible.
So we build a wall( either real or virtual) at Mexican Border who is going to fund this Trillion dollar government project?
What do you do about the other 23% of illegal immigrants that come from Asia, Europe, Africa, etc? do we build a wall around Canadian border and all our Coastline

Is illegal immigration a problem?...yes Does the problem get amplified when our economy
is down?....yes

With all the talk about the problem you might be surprised at this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203518404577094722741385882.html

Of all the thiings our government pi--es money away on, I think we could afford "a whole lot of brick". God knows we've got enough cheap labor to build the damn thing

 

[SSdoc33]

I love how it is always assumed that there's absolutely NO WAY, that enforcing the actual laws we have against illegal immigration could EVER possibly be considered. "That's so radical, man ."

The same people that feel this way also NEVER suggest actually changing immigration laws to say that anyone can come to America, anytime, with any criminal record, un-vaccinated, with any communicable disease, buy a false social security number on the internet, get a drivers license, register to vote, and start collecting government benefits while working under the table for cash and avoiding income tax payments. If that's what you want, MAKE IT LEGAL! What the h--l are you waiting for?

We don't want to build a wall, we don't want to send anyone back, we want to allow tens of millions to enter the country unchecked but somehow strangely, no one ever suggests re-writing the laws to explicitly make all this legal. Make what's going on legal, and if what's going on isn't a problem, the problem is fixed.

Bizarre, that the people that want to block any toughening of enforcement of illegal immigration laws haven't proposed such a thing, don't you think?

No, its not at all bizarre, because that would draw immediate attention to how bat s--t insane it is to allow what's happening to keep happening.

My God, we're screwed up in this country.

there are too many interests with too much skin in the game to allow enforcement of the laws or changing of the laws. once again, it all boild down to the allmighty dollar. the public ends up paying for the illegals in taxes, welfare, medical care, etc. big agriculture gets slave labor and huge profits.

what bothers me most is that illegal immigration is simply not fair. it is unfair to use american resources if you didnt get here through a legal route. there are plenty of engineers, scientists, businessmen etc, who would love to immigrate to america, but can because of the existing laws on immigration. but, if you sneak thru a gate in cattle country, you are better off.

 

[emd123]

there are too many interests with too much skin in the game to allow enforcement of the laws or changing of the laws. once again, it all boild down to the allmighty dollar. the public ends up paying for the illegals in taxes, welfare, medical care, etc. big agriculture gets slave labor and huge profits.

what bothers me most is that illegal immigration is simply not fair. it is unfair to use american resources if you didnt get here through a legal route. there are plenty of engineers, scientists, businessmen etc, who would love to immigrate to america, but can because of the existing laws on immigration. but, if you sneak thru a gate in cattle country, you are better off.

Thaaaats right!

Liberals want the status quo: larger Hispanic population = more votes for them = power = money

Conservatives want the status quo: large illegal immigrant population = cheap labor = profits for big business = votes = power = money

There is no shortage of Hippocrates to go around, that's for sure.

 

[lonelobo]

Thaaaats right!

Liberals want the status quo: larger Hispanic population = more votes for them = power = money

Conservatives want the status quo: large illegal immigrant population = cheap labor = profits for big business = votes = power = money

There is no shortage of Hippocrates to go around, that's for sure.

I have no argument with above

I am about to emigrate to Mexico for a week and sip a couple maragaritas on the beach

 

[emd123]

I have no argument with above

I am about to emigrate to Mexico for a week and sip a couple maragaritas on the beach

Now you're talkin...

 

[Ligament]

Considering the billions, if not trillions of "aide" money we give to central and south american countries, I'd say we have plenty of money to round up and ship the illegals out of this country. No more aide money for any of these countries, particularly Mexico, until we get all of their ILLEGAL occupiers out of our country, and then it is up to the country of ORIGIN to keep their citizens out of OUR country, or no more aide money.

I think it is hilarious how the Mexican government points their fingers at US as the cause of their problems. Gun problems? Oh, its the USA's fault, give us more money! Immigration problems? Oh, its not the Mexican governments fault for failing to control their own borders, give us more money Mr. USA. Drug cartel problems? Oh, its not the Mexican people's fault for fostering this, its your fault USA! Jesus, Mexico in particular, acts like it is a 6 year old child with no responsibility whatsoever with an always external nexus of blame and control in parent USA.

I know lots of physicians, people with masters and PhD degrees, who are LEGAL immigrants who cannot, for the life of them, get a greencard or citizenship. Those are the people we should be welcoming with open arms.

 

[hyperalgesia]

If we stop paying Americans to NOT work, they will have no choice but to take whatever jobs are available. Even if they consider the job below them.

US unemployement would plummet and immigrants would have no reason to come here because there are no low paying jobs for them. Americans finally get off their asses, swallow their pride, and work for a living.

Some of the immigrants are just desperate hard working people doing what they have to to get by. But at least we don't need to reward and entice them.

 

[facets]

If we stop paying Americans to NOT work, they will have no choice but to take whatever jobs are available. Even if they consider the job below them.

US unemployement would plummet and immigrants would have no reason to come here because there are no low paying jobs for them. Americans finally get off their asses, swallow their pride, and work for a living.

That was my point. The only reasons illegals take these jobs is because Americans get the same amount in disincintives to work, disability, disincentives for woman to marry their baby daddies, disincentives for men to support their children. Everyone has become a government ward with a few suckers like us paying the bills

 

[Apollyon]

I am all for enforcing the law, never said otherwise.
Just love it when people say send them all back.....like that is a practical solution.

Do you think building a wall is really the solution?
I live in this part of the country and the logistics and required funding of actually doing it are incredible.
So we build a wall( either real or virtual) at Mexican Border who is going to fund this Trillion dollar government project?
What do you do about the other 23% of illegal immigrants that come from Asia, Europe, Africa, etc? do we build a wall around Canadian border and all our Coastline

Is illegal immigration a problem?...yes Does the problem get amplified when our economy
is down?....yes

With all the talk about the problem you might be surprised at this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203518404577094722741385882.html

I don't know how many illegal immigrants there are from Canada. Seriously?

And the WSJ link needs a subscription to view. No thanks.

 

[facets]

Too many and I'm tired of it! Driving around in their Volvos speaking perfect English and looking all white and crap.
Seriously, the problem with Canada is --everything
Seriously, the problem is terroists (like docshark, lonelobo and ssdoc) coming across the border with the very lax us/canadian checking points

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

I had to smile to myself yesterday. I had a hispanic patient who spoke little English, in to see me for shoulder pain. Dx: calcific tendinitis. He is on Medicaid.

His main interest is being able to continue working.

His job - he builds fences.

 

[facets]

yes, they are currently building the us mexican fence, hows that for irony. I guess after the last brick is placed-they take a step south

 

[Jcm800]

exactly no illegal immigration started before January 2009

Yeah it's weird. Before 2009 we did not have ANY problems...not just the illegal alien issue. Man did he wreck this place in 3 years

 

[101N]

IMO immigration - as discussed here - and social issues are a worthless side show. The big issues are debt and our ability to compete with China, South Korea, India, and now S. America (globalization).

Ultimately, we need a painful rebuilding. Money needs to be taken from the boomers - SS, Disability, and Medicare - and invested in the young. I don't have confidence in Obama's ability/willingness to lead out out of morass of national debt or to 'redistribute wealth' from the middle-aged and old to the young.
The quote below is from David Brooks column in today's NYT:

As a survey of nearly 10,000 Harvard Business School grads by Michael Porter and Jan Rivkin makes clear, to get companies to locate their plants in the U.S., Obama is going to have to simplify the tax code, cut corporate rates, streamline regulations, make immigration policy more flexible and balance the budget over the long term.

To ensure there's skilled labor for those plants, Obama would have to champion different policies: successful training programs like Job Corps, better coordination between colleges and employers, better treatment for superstar teachers, more child care options and better early childhood education.

This agenda is libertarian in the capitalist sector and activist in the human capital sector. Don't triangulate meekly toward the center; select bold policies from both ends. That's what would help Maddie Parlier and millions like her.

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

IMO immigration - as discussed here - and social issues are a worthless side show. The big issues are debt and our ability to compete with China, South Korea, India, and now S. America (globalization).

Ultimately, we need a painful rebuilding. Money needs to be taken from the boomers - SS, Disability, and Medicare - and invested in the young. I don't have confidence in Obama's ability/willingness to lead out out of morass of national debt or to 'redistribute wealth' from the middle-aged and old to the young.
The quote below is from David Brooks column in today's NYT:

As a survey of nearly 10,000 Harvard Business School grads by Michael Porter and Jan Rivkin makes clear, to get companies to locate their plants in the U.S., Obama is going to have to simplify the tax code, cut corporate rates, streamline regulations, make immigration policy more flexible and balance the budget over the long term.

To ensure there’s skilled labor for those plants, Obama would have to champion different policies: successful training programs like Job Corps, better coordination between colleges and employers, better treatment for superstar teachers, more child care options and better early childhood education.

This agenda is libertarian in the capitalist sector and activist in the human capital sector. Don’t triangulate meekly toward the center; select bold policies from both ends. That’s what would help Maddie Parlier and millions like her.

Too much common sense, too much that angers special interests and too much money at stake. It'll never happen.

 

[Doctodd]

im all for it, except the child care and teaching portion EXCEPT for Job Corps, which is for kids who are not in school. I dont think the Federal Govt should meddle in it......more power should be given to the states, but Washington Politicians have mortgages too.

 

[Aether2000]

Jay Leno stated a couple of years ago that he went to Mexico City for a vacation. He asked, "Have you been to Mexico lately? There is no one there......"

 

[deleted300432]

You're kidding yourself.

Here's the point: they can and will change the rules to whatever they want, to NOT PAY.

That can say in 2013, everyone must have a Pain score of 2 or we're not paying. In 2014, they make it 1/10. Then in 2015, they'll say you've got to get everyone to zero. Then once all your charts say "patient has zero pain", they refuse to pay because they don't have pain anymore! It's a lot easier for them to play the game when they're writing the rules.

It doesn't have to be possible or make any sense.

Also, unlike EM, specialties like Pain can opt out of Medicaid currently. Expect the government to apply EMTALA (all patients must be treated regardless of ability to pay) to all specialties. They will make Medicaid, Medicare and ObamaCare participation a requirement to medical licensure and a DEA license. They really can't achieve their grand plan of universal coverage without it.

Don't think it can't happen. Unless we all wake up and fight, it will.

Shhhhhhhhh! Don't give them ideas!

 

[michaelrack]

and world war I. and the franco-prussian war. but hey, lets not split hairs.

what's wrong with the 1870 War? Without it, there wouldn't be a Germany today to bail out the rest of Europe.