Weed out pharmacy programs

[jersey9000]

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Anyone hear of any weed out pharmacy programs??

 

[evilolive]

There's a couple of them but if I identify them people are going to get offended.

 

[jersey9000]

There's a couple of them but if I identify them people are going to get offended.

please do, you will save people time and money

 

[deleted205891]

Many 0-6 programs sort of try to weed people out, but if you think you should've gotten in in the first place, then you're fine.

 

[alenadoma]

Sorry, can you guys explain what you mean by weed out programs? Do you mean schools you should not bother applying to?

 

[jersey9000]

Sorry, can you guys explain what you mean by weed out programs? Do you mean schools you should not bother applying to?

For instance if a school accepts 300 students in there professionals phase and graduates only 150, thus 150 were "weeded out".
Some schools take way to many students in, knowing that they all will not graduated, make the tests way to hard, fail them out either their P-1 to P-2 years, by the time is all said and done, you have gave certain schools 2 years of tuition and you are 2 years in tuition debt and nothing to show for it.

 

[alenadoma]

For instance if a school accepts 300 students in there professionals phase and graduates only 150, thus 150 were "weeded out".
Some schools take way to many students in, knowing that they all will not graduated, make the tests way to hard, fail them out either their P-1 to P-2 years, by the time is all said and done, you have gave certain schools 2 years of tuition and you are 2 years in tuition debt and nothing to show for it.

Wow...seriously!? I had no idea. Can someone list some of these schools? How do you know which school they are???

 

[Kirbypuff]

Wow...seriously!? I had no idea. Can someone list some of these schools? How do you know which school they are???

LIU is a weed out school. They've accepted 244 students into the 3rd year, and they're only allowed to graduate 200 students. They've also increased the minimum graduating gpa requirement fro 2.0 to 2.3 to screw over the bottom 44.

 

[confettiflyer]

Jesus Christ, if I have read another thread that claims that certain schools are contractually constrained in the # of degrees they can confer, I'm gonna choke a bitch.

Anyway...weed out program, EVERY program will have a certain % of people who will fail. Not everyone is cut out for grad school. Not everyone is smart enough.

 

[jyw003]

lol...don't all programs weed out...haha...

 

[jersey9000]

lol...don't all programs weed out...haha...

some more than others. some schools 5-10, others schools 50-100, so there is a difference.

 

[evilolive]

Jesus Christ, if I have read another thread that claims that certain schools are contractually constrained in the # of degrees they can confer, I'm gonna choke a bitch.

Anyway...weed out program, EVERY program will have a certain % of people who will fail. Not everyone is cut out for grad school. Not everyone is smart enough.

I think they're constrained by law/funding.

 

[confettiflyer]

I think they're constrained by law/funding.

Ugh, law, that's what I'm talking about. Why do people keep thinking the # of pharm. graduates is constrained by law? What are we? Communist??

Man, stop making **** up everyone!


(socialist maybe, with the way markets are going).

 

[Sparda29]

LIU is a weed out school. They've accepted 244 students into the 3rd year, and they're only allowed to graduate 200 students. They've also increased the minimum graduating gpa requirement fro 2.0 to 2.3 to screw over the bottom 44.

I know quite a bit of people who failed out of LIU after P1.

I know even more people who got into LIU as Pre-Pharmers and didn't make it into the P1 year. A lot of people also didn't make it through the pre-pharmacy program.

 

[jmnj06]

i agree that every pharmacy school has a % that fail out, but some pharmacy schools has a much larger % that fail out as well.

 

[RxWildcat]

I think they're constrained by law/funding.

funding? maybe, but definitely not by law.

 

[confettiflyer]

I remember my major as an undergrad (biology) saw something like a 50% drop out rate by the end of 2nd year. It would make sense for a 6 year program to see a high attrition rate within its first 2-3 years, which essentially mimic the first few years of undergrad.

Big mental check for everyone, just because someone gets into college doesn't mean they can finish. They might have squeaked in on a sob story in their personal statement, via affirmative action and not academics, or claiming a bajillion clubs and "leadership" experience.

I'm totally off topic, but the OP hits on this topic a little by asking about weeding out schools. I really think that if you're "weeded out," which school you are at had no bearing on this fact (ie you would have flunked out at another said institution).

 

[evilolive]

funding? maybe, but definitely not by law.

I think what I was confusing it was the number of out of state students allowed by certain public institutions such as Wisconsin. They were capped at 10% OOS when I went to interview.

 

[FishoutWater]

LIU is a weed out school. They've accepted 244 students into the 3rd year, and they're only allowed to graduate 200 students. They've also increased the minimum graduating gpa requirement fro 2.0 to 2.3 to screw over the bottom 44.

Wow, that's harsh for the bottom 44.😱

 

[kbv]

I remember my major as an undergrad (biology) saw something like a 50% drop out rate by the end of 2nd year. It would make sense for a 6 year program to see a high attrition rate within its first 2-3 years, which essentially mimic the first few years of undergrad.

Big mental check for everyone, just because someone gets into college doesn't mean they can finish. They might have squeaked in on a sob story in their personal statement, via affirmative action and not academics, or claiming a bajillion clubs and "leadership" experience.

I'm totally off topic, but the OP hits on this topic a little by asking about weeding out schools. I really think that if you're "weeded out," which school you are at had no bearing on this fact (ie you would have flunked out at another said institution).

It's ok if the high %age of the drop-out rate happens in undergrad. However, once accepted into a professional program, esp. with all of the pre-requirements, screening, interview...you name them, that high %age is unacceptable and unexcusable. The school has every tool in the world to select its most qualified candidates.

In every professional school, now I specifically refer to dental and pharmacy schools which I know better than the rest of the healthcare majors, the only acceptable %age of the drop-out rate is 5% or less for the whole class, not just for every professional year. That means if 100% get accepted, by the time of the graduation, there should be at least 95% of them left attending the ceremony. If not, sthing is going on here in the school.

Don't blame it entiredly on the students. I believe once accepted into the program, more than 95% of them all thrive as best as they can. Thus, it is very important for the whole class to show their solidarity if things like this happen; for example, the class representative comes and talks to the Chair of the Department and the Dean.

Problems are often 2-sided. The high drop-out rate reveals the quality of both teaching and learning. Class discussions with the Chair and the Dean not only help yourself but also your school's reputation.

To summarize, yeah, beware of those "weed-outs".

 

[jersey9000]

It's ok if the high %age of the drop-out rate happens in undergrad. However, once accepted into a professional program, esp. with all of the pre-requirements, screening, interview...you name them, that high %age is unacceptable and unexcusable. The school has every tool in the world to select its most qualified candidates.

In every professional school, now I specifically refer to dental and pharmacy schools which I know better than the rest of the healthcare majors, the only acceptable %age of the drop-out rate is 5% or less for the whole class, not just for every professional year. That means if 100% get accepted, by the time of the graduation, there should be at least 95% of them left attending the ceremony. If not, sthing is going on here in the school.

Don't blame it entiredly on the students. I believe once accepted into the program, more than 95% of them all thrive as best as they can. Thus, it is very important for the whole class to show their solidarity if things like this happen; for example, the class representative comes and talks to the Chair of the Department and the Dean.

Problems are often 2-sided. The high drop-out rate reveals the quality of both teaching and learning. Class discussions with the Chair and the Dean not only help yourself but also your school's reputation.

To summarize, yeah, beware of those "weed-outs".

Wonderfully said kbv

 

[confettiflyer]

^^agreed, but I think the issue is a supposed codified "weed out" vs. one that occurs naturally through attrition at about the 5% rate.

Also, with respect to 6 year programs...you've got kids coming right out of high school who don't know how to play the game, so I don't even consider them professional school students until their 3rd year. To consider them as such would be a joke IMO.

 

[alenadoma]

It's ok if the high %age of the drop-out rate happens in undergrad. However, once accepted into a professional program, esp. with all of the pre-requirements, screening, interview...you name them, that high %age is unacceptable and unexcusable. The school has every tool in the world to select its most qualified candidates.

In every professional school, now I specifically refer to dental and pharmacy schools which I know better than the rest of the healthcare majors, the only acceptable %age of the drop-out rate is 5% or less for the whole class, not just for every professional year. That means if 100% get accepted, by the time of the graduation, there should be at least 95% of them left attending the ceremony. If not, sthing is going on here in the school.

Don't blame it entiredly on the students. I believe once accepted into the program, more than 95% of them all thrive as best as they can. Thus, it is very important for the whole class to show their solidarity if things like this happen; for example, the class representative comes and talks to the Chair of the Department and the Dean.

Problems are often 2-sided. The high drop-out rate reveals the quality of both teaching and learning. Class discussions with the Chair and the Dean not only help yourself but also your school's reputation.

To summarize, yeah, beware of those "weed-outs".

Does anyone know which schools are known for this? I guess people apply thinking they would "never be one of those people."

 

[kbv]

^^agreed, but I think the issue is a supposed codified "weed out" vs. one that occurs naturally through attrition at about the 5% rate.

Also, with respect to 6 year programs...you've got kids coming right out of high school who don't know how to play the game, so I don't even consider them professional school students until their 3rd year. To consider them as such would be a joke IMO.

I should have been more detailed on this:

Yes, I meant P1 to P4, not freshman or junior for pharmacy.

No, once in the program, it's more about "weed-out" than "natural". Isn't "natural" human nature thus the tests and quizzes are there to kick in?

 

[confettiflyer]

I should have been more detailed on this:

Yes, I meant P1 to P4, not freshman or junior for pharmacy.

No, once in the program, it's more about "weed-out" than "natural". Isn't "natural" human nature thus the tests and quizzes are there to kick in?

Yeah...I meant that no school is going to make a formal code kicking out a set number of bottom feeding students per year; instead, students themselves will do it on their own (ie fail these tests/quizzes) and fall below standard minimum values. This is where your argument about teaching quality and student quality comes in.

And I think people on here are asking about schools that "don't weed out" are looking for "easy" programs. The closest thing I can think of are schools that require a 2.0 to advance vs. a 3.0.

 

[jmnj06]

Yeah...I meant that no school is going to make a formal code kicking out a set number of bottom feeding students per year; instead, students themselves will do it on their own (ie fail these tests/quizzes) and fall below standard minimum values. This is where your argument about teaching quality and student quality comes in.

And I think people on here are asking about schools that "don't weed out" are looking for "easy" programs. The closest thing I can think of are schools that require a 2.0 to advance vs. a 3.0.

what happend to "C's get degrees"

 

[confettiflyer]

what happend to "C's get degrees"

depends on the program. I know USC and my own pharmacy program (JSP) are B's = degrees. There's a bunch more out there.

 

[Kirbypuff]

Anyone hear of any weed out pharmacy programs??

I just remembered another school I am very familiar with. St. John's University boasts an attrition rate of 2%.

So the 2 schools I can provide to help answer your question are St. John's and LIU. (I'm from NYC) St. John's is not a "weed out" school and LIU is a "weed out" school temporarily for the next 2 years. Starting this year, LIU is no longer bound to accept pre-professional students with a minimum of 3.0 GPAs. Which means they can take exactly 200 students instead of 244, and try to keep the attrition rate low.

 

[meso]

This is a cause for concern considering schools often boast about their >95% NAPLEX pass rates. I have yet to hear any school talk about their attrition rate.

Do the schools publish their attrition rates?
Is there a list of attrition rates available?

 

[Kirbypuff]

No school in their right mind will advertise their attrition rate. I ask on interviews about the attrition rates of the school if applicable.

 

[meso]

No school in their right mind will advertise their attrition rate. I ask on interviews about the attrition rates of the school if applicable.

lol...no, I guess they wouldn't. I was hoping we could find a list with the attrition rates like on acpe or something.

I have seen somewhere one or two attrition rates but they both favorably highlighted the schools.

 

[confettiflyer]

I usually asked students directly for the approximate attrition rate, I remember doing that for USC. I think it's a function of admissions standards. As you start letting in more sub 3.0 students (regardless of PCAT) or no BS/BA students, you'll in general see more dropping out vs. a more established program.

That's not to say that sub 3 and no BS/BA students can't hack it...for every "hardship" case genius you get, you'll get someone who just scraped by, charmed the adcom, and will get creamed in grad school.

I don't think attrition rate is too important unless it's grossly abused, so in that respect, it's worth asking around.

 

[Maestrojo]

For instance if a school accepts 300 students in there professionals phase and graduates only 150, thus 150 were "weeded out".
Some schools take way to many students in, knowing that they all will not graduated, make the tests way to hard, fail them out either their P-1 to P-2 years, by the time is all said and done, you have gave certain schools 2 years of tuition and you are 2 years in tuition debt and nothing to show for it.

Oh Really?

If thats the case, then bring it on. Since its my last years of schooling I may as well make it count.

Harder exams will make me a better Pharmacist anyway.

 

[fhx06]

Wouldn't the whole "weeding out" thing be against some ethical code? I can't imagine a professional school accepting students only to try to kick them out after they've been paid $10k to $20k of tuition. I mean, if someone flunk out because said person didn't bother to study or take the education seriously... that's, well, just stupid. Seriously, from what I've been told most schools try to do their best to help the students learn the material.

 

[Sparda29]

depends on the program. I know USC and my own pharmacy program (JSP) are B's = degrees. There's a bunch more out there.

That's insane dude.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's not too bad...I had a 3.5+ last semester, so I can technically go sub-3 this semester and still be okay. Our requirements stipulate you need a 3.0 by the end of P-3 going into rotations or you can't go on them. An F in any course = automatic dismissal from the program. A C- to D- can be made up using a "2nd chance comprehensive final exam" to raise that to a C for passing.

I think that's it....I didn't really pay attention to the details.

 

[missy1984]

Temple University 😱