PhD/PsyD Weekly Neuropsych Productivity Expectations

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

Hey everyone,

I’m a 2nd year neuropsych post-doc unfortunately on the job hunt during a pretty rough job market. I had multiple possible hospital opportunities prior to the pandemic, and those clearly fell flat given my state was hit pretty hard.

In looking for positions, I came across a part-time gig expecting 6 patients/week for “12 hours of work”. That would be 1 hour interview, 1 hour report writing per patient - a psychometrician would administer tests.

I’m a naive post-doc and pretty green to the private practice world. Am I wrong to consider this to be a bit lofty of an expectation? I reviewed Jerry Sweet’s practice survey and I suspect this is the case. Knowing my own productivity I would have trouble churning out anything but subpar work in this situation.

Regardless, I’m also more curious about typical patient loads/week for neuropsychologists who use psychometricians.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

People always warn about predatory practices out there...but 6 patients/wk and "12 hours of work" per week is literally the worst I've ever heard. I would personally tell them to F' off if they made that offer to me bc it is CLEARLY predatory.

 

[futureapppsy2]

People always warn about predatory practices out there...but 6 patients/wk and "12 hours of work" per week is literally the worst I've ever heard. I would personally tell them to F' off if they made that offer to me bc it is CLEARLY predatory.

Yep. Pretty much the only way that's feasible is if you print out the autogenerated score report and call it your report, and that's obviously not something you should do,

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'd also likely out the person and their "offer" so our "local colleagues" knew to avoid them and warn off ECPs from falling for the predatory offer.

I know this isn't where you are at being new to the job market from fellowship, but I post it to demonstrate how toxic that kind of offer is for the field. You need to find an opportunity that works for you, but considering we are in the middle of a pandemic....it makes it that much worse.

 

[PsyDr]

This is the most BS job offer I have ever heard of.

Keep in mind, that the psychometrician bills under YOUR license and is covered by your malpractice. In essence, the psychometricians can only be there because of YOU.

 

[psych.meout]

Wow. Obviously, I'm at a lower level of training, but I've done 2 patients per 12 hours of work, including interview, testing, feedback, and report writing, but not including supervision. This is just crazy.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

Thanks for the reality testing. Obviously I can tell from the outset that this is a very out-there offer, but I wasn’t sure if I was just viewing it through the lens of the (relatively) protective bubble of post-doc.

But I agree, this is miles away from any practice I had seen before, even from what I’ve been familiar with in private practices. Based on what I can tell about the practice, I had many apprehensions (let’s just say less-than evidence based treatments) before I even heard this news.

There’s no way I can feasibly make a passable work product in those time expectations.

 

[psych.meout]

Thanks for the reality testing. Obviously I can tell from the outset that this is a very out-there offer, but I wasn’t sure if I was just viewing it through the lens of the (relatively) protective bubble of post-doc.

But I agree, this is miles away from any practice I had seen before, even from what I’ve been familiar with in private practices. Based on what I can tell about the practice, I had many apprehensions (let’s just say less-than evidence based treatments) before I even heard this news.

There’s no way I can feasibly make a passable work product in those time expectations.

Geez, I don't envy their patients. Well, good luck on your job search. Hope you find a good spot deserving of your skills.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mostly-unfounded leap of logic: sounds like the practice is just a report farm and churning them out in questionably large numbers. Good on you for questioning early and looking elsewhere.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Umm. So, from their view a full time neuropsych load would be 20 patients a week? Lol. yeah. F off is the appropriate response.

But man, imagine the billables! Nevermind that the report is probably a one-page regurgitation of the results without any useful impression or recommendations.

 

[PsyDr]

Umm. So, from their view a full time neuropsych load would be 20 patients a week? Lol. yeah. F off is the appropriate response.

Pay a neuropsychologist for 40hrs of work. Then bill another 100-200 hrs of tech time.

Offer a 70/30 split with the neuropsych for the two clinical hours. Let’s say that pays $75/hr.

At the upper ends, the clinic is pulling in$10,000/week just in tech time. Maybe paying $4k to techs ($20/hr). If they’re pure scum, they’re throwing in some of that billables as interpretation by neuropsych instead of tech to get more money (ie, fraud). As everything is billed under the neuropsych license, and all liability is under the neuropsych license, the clinic can do whatever. Cms shows that there was inadequate supervision because the regulations require you to be physically on site? Neuropsych is the one in trouble. Lawsuit because tech did something wrong ? Neuropsych is liable. Guess whose signature is on everything written?

 

[Sanman]

Umm. So, from their view a full time neuropsych load would be 20 patients a week? Lol. yeah. F off is the appropriate response.

This seems in line with most large geriatric companies....so yeah

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This seems in line with most large geriatric companies....so yeah

To be fair, the average ALF/SNF eval is probably going to be a good bit shorter than the average PP-based outpatient neuropsych eval. But all that's not to say I haven't had pretty poor experiences with companies contracting for nursing home assessment work.

 

[Sanman]

To be fair, the average ALF/SNF eval is probably going to be a good bit shorter than the average PP-based outpatient neuropsych eval. But all that's not to say I haven't had pretty poor experiences with companies contracting for nursing home assessment work.

Yeah, it is. However, I know of at least one company asking for 8 units of testing day to make $80k/yr + rather poor benefits, interested? You could opt for 12 psychotherapy clients a day instead if that appeals.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

But man, imagine the billables! Nevermind that the report is probably a one-page regurgitation of the results without any useful impression or recommendations.

Someone did this w NFL "CTE" cases....super unethical and likely broke some laws.