Weird class: Lab or non-lab in AMCAS?

[trillianMcMillan]

I'm having trouble classifying one of my science courses as lab+lecture vs. just lecture, curious how others would list it. This was a neuroscience course with 2 sessions a week, including 1 lecture session, and 1 session in our neuro lab. In the lab section we learned and performed various techniques (including injecting animal subjects, running them through behavioral assays, perfusion, staining & taking slices of brain tissue, histological analysis) in the context of a study, which we eventually wrote up as if for publication. To me this is the definition of a lecture + lab course. However, the official course description on my school's website (below) doesn't mention the lab aspect at all, and the transcript name doesn't indicate anything about it being a research or lab course. Is there any chance they'd ding me for listing it as a lab class?

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[KnightDoc]

I'm having trouble classifying one of my science courses as lab+lecture vs. just lecture, curious how others would list it. This was a neuroscience course with 2 sessions a week, including 1 lecture session, and 1 session in our neuro lab. In the lab section we learned and performed various techniques (including injecting animal subjects, running them through behavioral assays, perfusion, staining & taking slices of brain tissue, histological analysis) in the context of a study, which we eventually wrote up as if for publication. To me this is the definition of a lecture + lab course. However, the official course description on my school's website (below) doesn't mention the lab aspect at all, and the transcript name doesn't indicate anything about it being a research or lab course. Is there any chance they'd ding me for listing it as a lab class?

"A multidisciplinary approach to the methods, issues, empirical findings and neuroscience and behavior literature. The course explores selected topics from a variety of theoretical and empirical models, from behavioral, evolutionary, social/environmental, physiological and cellular/molecular levels of analysis. The ways in which the different methods of analysis inform each other are a focus of the course. Neuroscience and Behavior faculty."

What's the advantage of listing it as lecture+lab? I honestly don't see any, and think you're just asking for trouble if your classification doesn't correspond to your transcript. Unless the benefit outweighs the very real possibility of a verification delay, there is no reason to do this, regardless of how inaccurate you think your school's official course description is. JMHO, but I don't see the upside for you.

 

[trillianMcMillan]

What's the advantage of listing it as lecture+lab? I honestly don't see any, and think you're just asking for trouble if your classification doesn't correspond to your transcript. Unless the benefit outweighs the very real possibility of a verification delay, there is no reason to do this, regardless of how inaccurate you think your school's official course description is. JMHO, but I don't see the upside for you.

That's a great question, I honestly didn't think about it -- I do think this class should be counted as BCPM, and I thought they might be more likely to agree with me listing a neuro class in the Bio category if it contains a lab, vs. reclassifying it as Behavioral? But you're right, not listing it as lab sounds like the safer/smarter option

 

[KnightDoc]

That's a great question, I honestly didn't think about it -- I do think this class should be counted as BCPM, and I thought they might be more likely to agree with me listing a neuro class in the Bio category if it contains a lab, vs. reclassifying it as Behavioral? But you're right, not listing it as lab sounds like the safer/smarter option

What is the name of the course? You are correct about it being BCPM, and, if it's a Neuro course, it will be classified as BIOL automatically. They are not even going to know it's an interdisciplinary course, let alone freak out thinking it's misclassified because they don't know about the lab.

I definitely think you are overthinking it and worrying about nothing. You're totally going to be fine with this. I'm just going to copy every single item verbatim from my transcript, and not sweat BCPM vs. AO. I'm just going to go by whatever department the course number falls within (e.g., Neuro 101 = BIOL = BCPM).

 

[Deltasidearm]

What's the advantage of listing it as lecture+lab?

Only for meeting pre-reqs which have separate credit requirements for lectures and labs.

OP, in situations like this, the course syllabus matters a lot more than the course name. The syllabus should be what would be used to determine its identity under review, as it serves as the approved official course description. Typically, lecture + lab combinations are worth more credits than normal courses (i.e. 4 credits for one course as opposed to 3 for lecture and 1 for lab) so that may help you decide. It sounds to me like a lecture and a lab, since it contains a significant portion of laboratory work and learning as a component.

 

[trillianMcMillan]

What is the name of the course? You are correct about it being BCPM, and, if it's a Neuro course, it will be classified as BIOL automatically. They are not even going to know it's an interdisciplinary course, let alone freak out thinking it's misclassified because they don't know about the lab.

I definitely think you are overthinking it and worrying about nothing. You're totally going to be fine with this. I'm just going to copy every single item verbatim from my transcript, and not sweat BCPM vs. AO. I'm just going to go by whatever department the course number falls within (e.g., Neuro 101 = BIOL = BCPM).

Course title is "Models and Systems" (what an informative title lol)- but it is NEUR-201, so guessing they'll put it under BCPM. I appreciate the advice, thank you! I won't sweat over it

 

[trillianMcMillan]

Only for meeting pre-reqs which have separate credit requirements for lectures and labs.

OP, in situations like this, the course syllabus matters a lot more than the course name. The syllabus should be what would be used to determine its identity under review, as it serves as the approved official course description. Typically, lecture + lab combinations are worth more credits than normal courses (i.e. 4 credits for one course as opposed to 3 for lecture and 1 for lab) so that may help you decide. It sounds to me like a lecture and a lab, since it contains a significant portion of laboratory work and learning as a component.

that makes sense, thanks. I'm still curious if they actually find & evaluate the syllabus for a class (which isn't on our website), vs. just using the course catalog description on my college website, since these are often very different at my undergrad -- I'll probably lean towards classifying based on the publicly-available course description just in case

 

[KnightDoc]

that makes sense, thanks. I'm still curious if they actually find & evaluate the syllabus for a class (which isn't on our website), vs. just using the course catalog description on my college website, since these are often very different at my undergrad -- I'll probably lean towards classifying based on the publicly-available course description just in case

No one has time to hunt down a course syllabus. Never going to happen. You'll be fine if you stick to the 4 corners of your transcript. This way, there will be no exception to clear, and consequently no delay in being verified.

By the way, is it a 4 credit class? If so, you can probably get away with saying lecture+lab with no question, if for any reason you need the lab credit. If it's a 3 credit class, that probably wouldn't fly. JMHO.

 

[trillianMcMillan]

No one has time to hunt down a course syllabus. Never going to happen. You'll be fine if you stick to the 4 corners of your transcript. This way, there will be no exception to clear, and consequently no delay in being verified.

By the way, is it a 4 credit class? If so, you can probably get away with saying lecture+lab with no question, if for any reason you need the lab credit. If it's a 3 credit class, that probably wouldn't fly. JMHO.

Nice, makes sense!
And my school is weird, our classes are all either 1.0 or 0.5 credits (0.5 is rare), with no difference in credit hours for lab vs. non-lab courses (my orgo + lab, for example, is all just 1.0 credits combined), with our website saying 1.0 credits = 3.75 semester hours, which isn't particularly helpful. frankly I have no idea how AMCAS weighs our lab classes, but I'd hope they add some weight to lab courses.

 

[KnightDoc]

Nice, makes sense!
And my school is weird, our classes are all either 1.0 or 0.5 credits (0.5 is rare), with no difference in credit hours for lab vs. non-lab courses (my orgo + lab, for example, is all just 1.0 credits combined), with our website saying 1.0 credits = 3.75 semester hours, which isn't particularly helpful. frankly I have no idea how AMCAS weighs our lab classes, but I'd hope they add some weight to lab courses.

Yes, weird. AMCAS doesn't weigh anything, and, frankly, doesn't care. They are just compiling, verifying and sending on to schools for them to do whatever they want with it. The bottom line is, unless you have some lab prereq requirement at some school that you need this class to fulfill, all of this is a lot of worry about nothing, because schools won't care one way or the other.

Just for my own curiosity, do any of your 1.0 credit classes have less semester hours, such as 3.0? If so, that might imply there IS a lab component here, but, going back to your OP, I think you might be asking for trouble going there, since your school didn't break it out with its own 0.5 credit class, or even making the NEUR class 1.5 credits, including lab.

 

[trillianMcMillan]

Yes, weird. AMCAS doesn't weigh anything, and, frankly, doesn't care. They are just compiling, verifying and sending on to schools for them to do whatever they want with it. The bottom line is, unless you have some lab prereq requirement at some school that you need this class to fulfill, all of this is a lot of worry about nothing, because schools won't care one way or the other.

Just for my own curiosity, do any of your 1.0 credit classes have less semester hours, such as 3.0? If so, that might imply there IS a lab component here, but, going back to your OP, I think you might be asking for trouble going there, since your school didn't break it out with its own 0.5 credit class, or even making the NEUR class 1.5 credits, including lab.

The actual hours of each class varied in a way not reflected by credits -- my 1.0 credit Seminar was just one 2-hr lecture weekly, whereas my 1.0 credit Orgo 1 was 2.5hrs lecture + one 4-hour lab weekly. No idea what the semester hours are, aside from our website's stating that 1.0 School credits = 3.75 semester credits.

 

[Deltasidearm]

No one has time to hunt down a course syllabus. Never going to happen. You'll be fine if you stick to the 4 corners of your transcript. This way, there will be no exception to clear, and consequently no delay in being verified.

It would be easier and quicker than you think. At least in my state, the university is required by law to collect and compile all syllabi for all classes every semester. All someone has to do to verify is send a request with the course numbers and it will get sent over.

 

[KnightDoc]

It would be easier and quicker than you think. At least in my state, the university is required by law to collect and compile all syllabi for all classes every semester. All someone has to do to verify is send a request with the course numbers and it will get sent over.

Okay. 60,000 +/- applicants. 40 +/- classes for each, at least, before any post-baccs.

Just how many syllabi is AAMC hunting down to verify a transcript, particularly when our entry exactly matches the official transcript? What is there is to be gained subjecting ourselves to this? An acknowledgement or denial that a single class had a lab component?

Seems like an extreme amount of squeeze for a tiny amount of juice to me.

 

[KnightDoc]

The actual hours of each class varied in a way not reflected by credits -- my 1.0 credit Seminar was just one 2-hr lecture weekly, whereas my 1.0 credit Orgo 1 was 2.5hrs lecture + one 4-hour lab weekly. No idea what the semester hours are, aside from our website's stating that 1.0 School credits = 3.75 semester credits.

Right -- my question was whether the website description varied by class (e.g., one class saying 1.0 credits = 3.75 hours while another saying it = 3.0 hours)? If so, that might mean something. If not, not. Again, if you don't need this class to fulfill someone's lab requirement, there is no reason to go here.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

OP, I think there's a good chance from your description that you go to my alma mater - personally I think you'd be safe categorizing it as "lecture + lab", from what I can tell AMCAS mostly just cares that your entries match your transcript. I had some independent research credits with random names that don't even have a course description. I had multiple courses where lab wasn't mentioned in the course title but they did have a lab component so I listed it on AMCAS (though it was mentioned in the course description). I had no issues getting verified.

Where it matters more is on individual secondaries where many schools ask what specific courses you took to meet their prerequisites. As long as you meet the lab requirements by other courses i don't know that it matters what you put, but if you need it for a lab credit and you have a syllabus that describes the lab component you would probably be fine (some schools will ask to verify courses via description/syllabus to see if they meet their prerequisites if it's not obvious from the title)

the fact that the course description mentions "methods" of neuroscience research honestly suggests a lab or research component anyway imo even if it's vague