Weird Situation

[bingutothetop]

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I am about to be a third year undergrad student at a public ivy. After starting out college with a 2.7 after freshman year, Ive rebounded to a 3.20, which hopefully can reach 3.35-3.4 by the end of junior year. I am able to graduate after my third year. I don't want to stay an extra year, mainly because I don't think that spending the money to raise my gpa by .18 max assuming i get 2 consecutive 4.0s is worth it. At this point I am debating either SMPs or hopefully DO schools. If I do poorly on the MCATs, I may look at DO smps.
I have extensive cancer research with a DO who has strong ties to PCOM. Ive also shadowed over 150 hours and started a student run policy initiative chapter club that has 80+ chapters nationwide.
Am I being foolish leaving early? I know theres no rush on things but...

 

[WedgeDawg]

I don't understand why you think it's not worth the money to stay an extra year but yet is worth spending large amounts of money on an SMP. Also upward trends look very good.

 

[bingutothetop]

Well because an SMP, as I understand it, is a fresh start big risk big reward type deal. I don't think that a 3.35-3.4 to a 3.5 gpa will make a lot of headway in my application, and I would feel that I wasted a years worth of tuition and time on a result that may have happened on its own (if I were given a DO acceptance). There is a good chance that even raising it to a 3.5, that I would still need an SMP.

 

[WedgeDawg]

What is your GPA if you exclude your freshman year?

 

[bingutothetop]

I would say around a 3.62 ish.

 

[bingutothetop]

Ive taken some summer and winter classes.

 

[WedgeDawg]

What's your breakdown by year? Is it something like 2.7 3.9 3.9?

 

[bingutothetop]

Its a 3.3, 3.6, and 3.9(the 3.9 being the 4 classes I have taken in the winter and summer)

 

[GrapesofRath]

Well because an SMP, as I understand it, is a fresh start big risk big reward type deal. I don't think that a 3.35-3.4 to a 3.5 gpa will make a lot of headway in my application, and I would feel that I wasted a years worth of tuition and time on a result that may have happened on its own (if I were given a DO acceptance). There is a good chance that even raising it to a 3.5, that I would still need an SMP.

If you can go from a 3.37 after junior year to say a 3.52 or something if you stay a senior year it is absolutely worth staying an extra year. A 3.37 really isn't particularly competitive for MD schools barring a truly exceptional MCAT score(and even then meh). A 3.52 with an 85th+percentile on the MCAT can certainly be with a broad list, particularly if you are in a good state. You absolutely would not need an SMP with a 3.5. Hell I don't really recommend the idea of doing an SMP with any GPA above a 3.3. If you were a graduating senior with a 3.35 I would think a post-bac is probably a smarter move. For you now in particular it's even clearer a decision.

Note if you are also content with DO schools you can apply after next year with a 3.35 and do fine with the right MCAT score. SMPs are a far riskier proposition than is often made out to be. Beating out the majority of medical students in a class is far more difficult than acing undergrad classes and the risk if you don't do well is your hopes, MD or DO, go to hell.

 

[bingutothetop]

the 2.7 was all of freshman year

 

[WedgeDawg]

If you can go from a 3.37 after junior year to say a 3.52 or something if you stay a senior year it is absolutely worth staying an extra year. A 3.37 really isn't particularly competitive for MD schools barring a truly exceptional MCAT score(and even then meh). A 3.52 with an 85th+percentile on the MCAT can certainly be with a broad list, particularly if you are in a good state.

Note if you are also content with DO schools you can apply after next year with a 3.35 and do fine with the right MCAT score. SMPs are a far riskier proposition than is often made out to be. Beating out the majority of medical students in a class is far more difficult than acing undergrad classes and the risk if you don't do well is your hopes, MD or DO, go to hell.

Yeah, agree with this.

Schools see your breakdown by year, will see an upward trend, and will just assume you had a bad freshman year and bounced back. You'll be fine at the majority of MD schools, assuming everything else is up to scruff.

 

[bingutothetop]

For me to jump from a 3.37 to a 3.52, I would have to get a 4.0, and I predict that taking bull**** classes will be see through and ineffective. After getting a hypothetical 4.0, I would have to score in the 85th percentile on the MCAT.
Im all for believing and acing it all, but college doesn't come cheap.

 

[bingutothetop]

I just can't shape the feeling that I will graduate with a 3.52 after senior year and still go to a DO school...I would have to make MD school to make it seem worth it....

 

[bingutothetop]

After all the gpa for PCOM is a 3.46....not like Im way over in my best case scenario

 

[GrapesofRath]

For me to jump from a 3.37 to a 3.52, I would have to get a 4.0, and I predict that taking bull**** classes will be see through and ineffective. After getting a hypothetical 4.0, I would have to score in the 85th percentile on the MCAT.
Im all for believing and acing it all, but college doesn't come cheap.

The numerical values be it 3.48 vs 3.52 or whatever isn't that important. It's the upward trend that matters. Having a 2 year upward trend vs a 1 year if you graduate after next year is a HUGE HUGE difference. And a 3.38 after junior year vs a 3.48 or whatever it would be if you have a 3.75 senior year does make a difference even from a numerical GPA perspective. Look at 3.4 as the floor really for GPAs that can suffice for MD admission.

 

[GrapesofRath]

After all the gpa for PCOM is a 3.46....not like Im way over in my best case scenario

Like I said if DO is something you are open to pursuing applying after next year with a 3.35 and a solid MCAT score will likely net you a number of II's.

 

[WedgeDawg]

For me to jump from a 3.37 to a 3.52, I would have to get a 4.0, and I predict that taking bull**** classes will be see through and ineffective. After getting a hypothetical 4.0, I would have to score in the 85th percentile on the MCAT.
Im all for believing and acing it all, but college doesn't come cheap.

SMPs are more expensive and you're far likely to do worse there, and they come with far higher risk.

 

[bingutothetop]

I was also looking at Temple's ACMS program, they offer guaranteed acceptance given you perform at a 3.5 or higher, however almost every student does. The average GPA is 3.55 however, so I don't know if my upward trend can make up for it enough...
And to be honest, I want the MD after my name. But I think that its foolish on my part, who knows how long I would have to wait, risk, spend, etc on an MD acceptance that would most likely not be a career changer over a DO school acceptance I may be able to get before. I don't have any acceptances at this point anyway

 

[bingutothetop]

If I were to stay, what would be my course of action? Do I graduate a semester early? Do I study abroad? Do I space out the classes I was planning on taking to graduate with easier classes?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Do what you can to keep your GPA at a 3.9+ for the remainder of your schooling.

 

[GrapesofRath]

If I were to stay, what would be my course of action? Do I graduate a semester early? Do I study abroad? Do I space out the classes I was planning on taking to graduate with easier classes?

Just take as many upper level science classes as you can handle and get A's in them. Easier classes that aren't upper level science classes will get snuffed out. That said, every school has upper level classes that are easier due to the professor; you just have to find them. This is one of a million reasons why I recommend this over an SMP; your schedule is flexible, classes are far easier to do well in, and you can pick the classes you want and are most likely to get A's in. If you have a 3.2 now and get a 3.75 the last 2 years of college you graduate with around a 3.48 and have a nice upward trend. I think you can be a competitive MD applicant with the appropriate MCAT score in that case and a broad list.

 

[bingutothetop]

For the next two years essentially. This is a decision I would have to make before the start of my semester, in order to space out the classes that I am taking now since Im in full gear to graduate early.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Keep in mind, the advice we're giving you right now is essentially the same whether you would go DO or MD. It's your best shot for both.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Keep in mind, the advice we're giving you right now is essentially the same whether you would go DO or MD. It's your best shot for both.

OP is fine for DO if they ace this year and apply next cycle with a 3.35 and have a solid MCAT score.

 

[WedgeDawg]

OP is fine for DO if they ace this year and apply next cycle with a 3.35 and have a solid MCAT score.

The solid MCAT score remains to be seen though.

 

[GrapesofRath]

The solid MCAT score remains to be seen though.

True but a solid MCAT score for DO standards is far lower than for MD standards and is needed regardless of whether the OP stays 4 years or 3. A 60th+ percentile MCAT score combined with that upward trend 3.35 GPA and I think the OP is in favorable position DO wise.

 

[bingutothetop]

Furthermore I'm working for an alumni from PCOM with strong ties to the school. I've been working in philly as well.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Furthermore I'm working for an alumni from PCOM with strong ties to the school. I've been working in philly as well.

This question really boils down to how bad you are boning for the MD vs DO. A strong showing this year and you can apply DO as is. If you are boning for the MD it really is a good idea to stay 2 more years in school.

 

[bingutothetop]

@GrapesofRath , since you are pre-medical, do you have reservations about DO school yourself. It seems to me that all the work I would be doing would be to prevent what perhaps is the inevitable. Despite this of course there are things to think about

 

[WedgeDawg]

True but a solid MCAT score for DO standards is far lower than for MD standards and is needed regardless of whether the OP stays 4 years or 3. A 60th+ percentile MCAT score combined with that upward trend 3.35 GPA and I think the OP is in favorable position DO wise.

It's possible if all the "if conditions" are met (maintaining a 3.9+ third year + acceptable MCAT). The chances of this happening if OP decided to study during the school year would be lower, as it's more likely then that either the GPA or MCAT will suffer. Thus, if OP decides to space them out and take the MCAT in the summer, why not just do the last year and raise the GPA to the point where they are a shoe-in for DO?

I digress, however. Too many hypotheticals here to be of any real use.

 

[GrapesofRath]

@GrapesofRath , since you are pre-medical, do you have reservations about DO school yourself. It seems to me that all the work I would be doing would be to prevent what perhaps is the inevitable. Despite this of course there are things to think about

You go to a medical school that accepts you. Whether you are willing to take this extra effort to try and get an MD is a decision only you can make. But like @WedgeDawg there are about 6 million hypotheticals here. None of this means jack-squat if you don't do well this year. Do well this year then let's see. I will say to Wedge though that the DO application cycle is later. It's feasible to graduate, study 3 months take the MCAT early August then apply DO. But like you said, enough with the hypotheticals.

 

[JustaDO]

And to be honest, I want the MD after my name. But I think that its foolish on my part, who knows how long I would have to wait, risk, spend, etc on an MD acceptance that would most likely not be a career changer over a DO school acceptance I may be able to get before. I don't have any acceptances at this point anyway

I had a friend say the same thing to me, so she decided to go to the Caribbeans. Aftermath now, is she will now never be a doctor.

Also, there is nothing weird about your situation, its pretty standard.

 

[bingutothetop]

I had a friend say the same thing to me, so she decided to go to the Caribbeans. Aftermath now, is she will now never be a doctor.

Also, there is nothing weird about your situation, its pretty standard.

This is a question of staying another year, not going to the carib. And you're right, I should have titled it "Pretty Standard Situation".