How would you rank the following programs in terms of reputation of AP/CP resident training?
UCLA, Stanford, UCSF, UCSD, University of Washington
UCLA, Stanford, UCSF, UCSD, University of Washington
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This might be helpful if the reputation of a Pathology training program actually mattered. I will spare you the suspense: it doesnt.
Urologist1: Did you know Leonard, our new Podlab Pathologist, trained at UCSF?
Urologist2: Yeah I think I saw him at a department holiday party once wearing a bowtie, what a dork!
Urologist1: Well, should we pay him more the standard 50 cents on the dollar we are giving that dude from India?
Urologist2: No! I said I saw him at a department holiday party once, we aren't best friends...
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12-03-2010, 04:10 PM <!-- / status icon and date --></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1px solid" class=thead align=right>#6 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1px solid" class=alt2 width=175>LADoc00<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_10357742", true); </SCRIPT>
híppos khlōrós
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<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cccccc; COLOR: #cccccc" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Crud, it is time again for my "It Matters Not Where You Train, Only That You are Not a Biz-Idiot" post?
There is a total disconnect between lifelong success and the perceived quality of the training program you happened to spend a passing 4-5 years in...
1.) Pick an accredited program, any program
2.) Don't be a drama lama, keep a low profile
3.) Get board certified
4.) Profit
most people fail somewhere on steps 2-4 Ive found...
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When are all the docs and premeds who voted for Nancy Pelosi and Obama getting their 30 pieces of silver in the mail?? Or has it arrived already?
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híppos khlōrós
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<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cccccc; COLOR: #cccccc" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Crud, it is time again for my "It Matters Not Where You Train, Only That You are Not a Biz-Idiot" post?
There is a total disconnect between lifelong success and the perceived quality of the training program you happened to spend a passing 4-5 years in...
1.) Pick an accredited program, any program
2.) Don't be a drama lama, keep a low profile
3.) Get board certified
4.) Profit
most people fail somewhere on steps 2-4 Ive found...
<!-- / message --><!-- SDNCODE: one sig per thread --><!-- /SDNCODE: one sig per thread --><!-- sig -->__________________
When are all the docs and premeds who voted for Nancy Pelosi and Obama getting their 30 pieces of silver in the mail?? Or has it arrived already?
<!-- / sig -->
</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1px solid" class=alt2>
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I like how LA's list doesn't include anything about "actually learn some pathology" - yet I know he's right about those being the most important things to attaining success in private practice pathology. And before people chime in, I will argue that passing the boards and actually learning some pathology are two entirely separate things.
So keeping a low profile, passing boards and profiting are how you succeed in private practice? You make it sound like a mindless job
Sorry, I misspoke a bit. I meant to imply that doing those things in residency are what helps most in getting a first job in private practice pathology. I actually have no idea what it takes to do well after getting that first job.
That said, based on the way I saw a handful of attendings practice in residency, I would argue some pathologist do practice mindlessly.
For %#! sake...yes LEARNING actual pathology is part of the schematic...its assumed.
Although I and other posters on this forum know full well of certain individuals who literally couldnt sign out a surgical specimen to save their life yet are the among the most "successful pathologists" on the West Coast...
Although I and other posters on this forum know full well of certain individuals who literally couldnt sign out a surgical specimen to save their life yet are the among the most "successful pathologists" on the West Coast...
All of the programs listed provide you with the training and material to adequately learn pathology. How you use them is up to you. None of them will provide you with any major advantage in your future career unless perhaps you want to work for one of them after training also. So ultimately it comes down to which one you like and which one has a training style that fits you. ANd where you want to live for 4+ years, of course.
So LADoc is right it really doesn't matter which one you pick if these are your five choices.
1) Competence
2) Spending time outside your office
3) Social skills
4) Confidence in your abilities (provided you are competent)
5) Some sense of the business of pathology and medicine in general.
I would also be interested to hear more opinions on the OP's original question.
I interviewed at Stanford and UCSF. I was really impressed by both programs, although personally I think I liked Stanford a little bit more. I connected better with the residents there and they seemed more effusive about their program than the UCSF residents that I met, although those residents also had great things to say. The one concern I have about Stanford is that they currently do not have a GI fellowship, which is what I think I want to pursue, although who knows, circumstances can change (I came into med school thinking I would go into neurology for example). Both of these programs clearly have outstanding reputations and would provide excellent training. Ultimately, it is difficult to make an informed decision after interviewing at each program for just one day and only meeting a small representation of the residents/faculty.
Does anyone else on this forum, especially residents at either program, have any further information about the relative merits of training at either one of these programs? Have there been any recent changes at either of these places that may affect new trainees (e.g. anyone retiring or leaving?). Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I interviewed at Stanford and UCSF. I was really impressed by both programs, although personally I think I liked Stanford a little bit more. I connected better with the residents there and they seemed more effusive about their program than the UCSF residents that I met, although those residents also had great things to say. The one concern I have about Stanford is that they currently do not have a GI fellowship, which is what I think I want to pursue, although who knows, circumstances can change (I came into med school thinking I would go into neurology for example). Both of these programs clearly have outstanding reputations and would provide excellent training. Ultimately, it is difficult to make an informed decision after interviewing at each program for just one day and only meeting a small representation of the residents/faculty.
Does anyone else on this forum, especially residents at either program, have any further information about the relative merits of training at either one of these programs? Have there been any recent changes at either of these places that may affect new trainees (e.g. anyone retiring or leaving?). Any input would be greatly appreciated.
D
deleted314957
it does not matter where you do your residency as long as it is a symbiotic relationship.
Do you think it matters more where you do your residency if you plan on staying in academics? Some people have told me that "pedigree" matters more in academics vs. private practice. Or perhaps would that only matter if you train at one of a few very select programs, otherwise it doesn't matter much? Thanks!
Probably. That being said, there are plenty of academic physicians who trained in mid-tier residency programs. In 2011 at least, I think a lot of folks would say that where you do your fellowship matters more than where you do your residency.
UCSF doesnt really have a GI fellowship as its a vast majority of consult medical liver.
I would definitely not call that a GI fellowship in the sense UCLA used to have one (famous GI guy whose name Im blanking on...) or Haggitt's former UW program.
I dont know of many good GI programs, probably UMich is the best still I would imagine. Maybe JHU, BWH.
other good ones: sloan kettering and cornell (combined fellowship at both institutions), mount sinai, maybe mayo clinic and cleveland clinic. im an east coaster. I don't know about the ones at cedars sinai and ucla besides the fact that they exist...
This is a great vid on the university conspiracy and why Im very disillusioned with education in America (education at all levels from preschool to medical fellowship):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VpZtX32sKVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VpZtX32sKVE
I think most residents who actually go to UCSF or Stanford would say the most important factor is where you want to live/spend most of your free time. In the city (UCSF). Near Palo Alto (Stanford). I think the programs seem to attract these two different types of personalities.
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Very interesting watch. Kinda reminded me of the film Inside Job about how the whole housing bubble burst. So just as college degrees are become worthless because everyone is getting one and many cant find jobs, so goes pathology fellowships...eerie similarity. But wait a minute thats not supposed to happen in a free market! Grrr, more training ahead .
You are thinking of Klaus Lewin, for whom the fellowship is now named after.
UCLA will give you great training and exposure to pretty much all of GI path, both bread and butter (polyps, gastritis, r/o sprue, r/o Barrett's, r/o dysplasia, IBD, r/o microscopic colitis, did I miss anything) and more obscure (infections like worms, giardia, spirochetosis, AIDS patient biopsies, Small bowel transplant, GVHD, cellcept toxicity, GAVE etc.) You will also get plenty of pancreatic biopsies, liver biopsies (transplant and medical), big GI and liver, etc. The faculty are not big names but they aren't junior faculty either.
