Western or USC ???

[Polarbear85]

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Hi all,

I just got accepted into western dental scool. I have an interview at USC this friday. I read about the PBL style and is not a fan of it. I want suggestions if I should attend the USC interview or is western a better choice? I also have a couple interviews next month in arizona; those I am planning on attending. But not sure about USC...
Thanks guys and good luck to all.

 

[DrReo]

Hi all,

I just got accepted into western dental scool. I have an interview at USC this friday. I read about the PBL style and is not a fan of it. I want suggestions if I should attend the USC interview or is western a better choice? I also have a couple interviews next month in arizona; those I am planning on attending. But not sure about USC...
Thanks guys and good luck to all.

It never hurts to check out the school and to see your other options. PBL is helpful for some, but not others. If you're interviewing at Midwestern, you'll love it!

 

[yakuza]

Do you know how many more interviews and acceptances Western will hand out?

 

[206127]

Go to Western... you just got an interview to USC, it doesn't mean you will get in. And even if you did get in I would still say Western, seems like they will have a great program. From what I keep on reading on here USC is falling apart...

I got into Western and got an interview at USC. Had I not been accepted to Marquette, I would go to Western without even thinking about going to the USC interview.

 

[mkkang]

When was your interview at WesternU? I had my interview on Jan 20 and still waiting.

 

[Doc Ock]

Now the bird in the hand is worth more than in the bush...but if things were equal (acceptances at both schools) why would you pick a school with no track record at all and no clinic at all over a functioning school that does have a solid record for passing WREBs?

Going to a brand new school can be exciting, setting new traditions, possibly innovative instruction, having no upper classmen so more experience to underclassmen, etc.

But REALLY...if you are accepted at an established program why would you necessarily pick a school that has absolutely no clinical track record AT ALL? Does Western even have clinical faculty on staff now? Who are the fixed prosth, operative, oral surgery faculty? Will your first year instruction include clinical dental subjects or is it all basic sciences so that can use their medical school faculty? If the school is wanting you to complete Part I of National Boards by the end of the first year, then they are just using their medical faculty to teach all the basic sciences because they have no clinic(stuffing the 1st year with basic science that in other programs would be over 2 or 1 1/2 years). Obviously futuredentist picked an established program over an embryonic program. Who is to say that the embryonic program won't have clinical nightmares? Especially since there is no clinic, no ancillary staff, no clinical faculty, and no patients to evaluate. I don't get it.

Of course this discussion is moot as you have not been accepted at USC.

You should do fine at Western if that is your only option, but I certainly would not burn all your other options at established programs you never know...

 

[iJackTeeth]

everyone will have a seat in westerns clinic which will be part of a patient care center that will have a pharmacy, optometry care, podiatry care, and medical care, all provided by the students at western.

Patient flow should not be a problem, with that said, students also have to spend 100 days in rotations, in private practices and clinics around the area, which means that there should be no problems in attaining the requirements for graduation.

 

[Polarbear85]

Thanks for your suggestions guys.
My interview was also on Jan 20th and I think they are still interviewing. I was told on the day of my interview that about half of the class is filled and they had no waitlist so far. I agree with you guys that western is brand new and even though USC is well established -- what I hear about USC is not too positive. First, being the most expensive school, and then no patients, students fighting over patients and I don't learn by PBL. If PBL constitutes a part of the whole curriculum - I will be fine with that. But there are no lectures at all. Their graduation rate was 18% (I read all of this info on studentdoctor forums). Haivng said that-- ther is obviously no doubt that USC has produced very talented dentists. I think I should atleast check out the school but on the other side I want somebody else to have my spot and have an interview there if I dont go there.
Anyways, thanks guys and good luck to all.

 

[DrReo]

Thanks for your suggestions guys.
My interview was also on Jan 20th and I think they are still interviewing. I was told on the day of my interview that about half of the class is filled and they had no waitlist so far. I agree with you guys that western is brand new and even though USC is well established -- what I hear about USC is not too positive. First, being the most expensive school, and then no patients, students fighting over patients and I don't learn by PBL. If PBL constitutes a part of the whole curriculum - I will be fine with that. But there are no lectures at all. Their graduation rate was 18% (I read all of this info on studentdoctor forums). Haivng said that-- ther is obviously no doubt that USC has produced very talented dentists. I think I should atleast check out the school but on the other side I want somebody else to have my spot and have an interview there if I dont go there.
Anyways, thanks guys and good luck to all.

You should start righting for the Journal of Education at this rate.

 

[idealisstical]

Western will also have som PBL.. not 100% but it is integrated into the curriculum, so you won't avoid PBL by choosing Western

 

[Ranelar]

If all it will cost you is a tank of gas, go to the interview, you might be impressed. It worked the other way around for me. I was psyched about getting into USC (I live in LA), and I almost canceled my interviews at Tufts and UNLV, but on my parents' advice I went anyway, and I was vastly impressed by both of them. I've deposited at Tufts now.

Besides having an established curriculum and clinic, USC is also in a much more exciting area (not the IMMEDIATE area...but you know...a couple miles out 😛) than Western. Pomona seemed like a ghost town to me. USC is lively with a spirited undergraduate population to keep things interesting.

 

[FOCUS785]

Hi everyone,
I must say that I prefer having my instructors all to my self and giving them feedback, helping the school make a name for its self and knowing that I was a part of it!
There are pros and cons but after having dental assisting experience and being in the field, I have seen too many dentists competing with each other and you may think differently, but I choose to change that prospective. I think that the school that teaches students to work together is much better than a school that makes you fight. What type of dentist will you be if you are always competing with everyone up the street and do not work with each other? most importantly, your true colors will always come out in front of your patients! if you work with other dentists, they see that you are always trying to make dentistry better!
I am sure that some may not agree with my prospective, but even if you are not thinking about the future, you may want to think about this: do you want to compete with your classmates and be mad all the time? or would you rather work together and be happy? trust me, there is a lot of psychology in a dental chair!!

 

[FOCUS785]

Thats just my opinion!

 

[206127]

Hi everyone,
I must say that I prefer having my instructors all to my self and giving them feedback, helping the school make a name for its self and knowing that I was a part of it!
There are pros and cons but after having dental assisting experience and being in the field, I have seen too many dentists competing with each other and you may think differently, but I choose to change that prospective. I think that the school that teaches students to work together is much better than a school that makes you fight. What type of dentist will you be if you are always competing with everyone up the street and do not work with each other? most importantly, your true colors will always come out in front of your patients! if you work with other dentists, they see that you are always trying to make dentistry better!
I am sure that some may not agree with my prospective, but even if you are not thinking about the future, you may want to think about this: do you want to compete with your classmates and be mad all the time? or would you rather work together and be happy? trust me, there is a lot of psychology in a dental chair!!

Hey I agree with you, but if you can why not go to a well established program that you know does this already? Also this is only a vision they have a Western, it could just as easily turn out to be a very competitive school.

 

[Doc Ock]

I read all of this info on studentdoctor forums

You are right. You will fail miserably at PBL. PBL requires you to do research on your own to figure out the answer to the problem. If your extent of research on USC is all of the mis information on SDN, then good luck to you in your future endeavours. Stay very far away from a PBL format and stick to a spoon fed lecture system.

Be aware that graduate programs are very much PBL, especially grad OMS except that the problem is a real problem on a real patient. And if PBL scares you off now...

FYI USC is NOT the most expensive D School. UPenn is.

Well, it seems USC overestimates living expenses and UPenn underestimates living expenses. So let us look only at what they say is education expense.

USC=74418+73017+71296+47963= 266694

UPenn=68163+68076+70554+69291=276084

So UPenn is more expensive than USC in education expense by $9390

So UPenn wins the title of the most expensive DSchool in the nation!

Good Luck to you buddy, but do more research than repeating inaccuratcies that you read on this forum.

 

[sl2obel2ts]

heard western will be part-pbl too at the interview... am i wrong?

 

[Polarbear85]

Doc Ock,

Ok fine, I may be wrong on that USC is the most expensive school but the other things that I was mentioning are not wrong. what about lack of patients and a competition among students? I agree with Focus, I don't think I can learn well in such an environment. That is what's going on at USC and this type of info won't appear on their website and I dont know anybody who's going to USC so that's why I was trusting studentdoc posts and a lot (I didn't say ALLL) of people seem to agree.

 

[Doc Ock]

Polarbear: First off...congrats on getting into Western. Having a ride ...any ride...is wonderful ...you worked hard and you deserve it.

Second...All I am saying is that you probably ought to go down to USC and see for yourself. Challenge the students there and ask em about problems with the clinic or problems with PBL. Go look at the clinics yourself and see. Especially if you have a interview invite (hey congrats on that too!)

Third...folks here on SDN are quick to jump on USC but give other schools a free ride (like for example no one has come forward and says why UPenn got rid of their Dean...but are quick to deride USC for getting rid of theirs). There are 4 viable candidates for the new dean at USC...1. The Chairman of UIC Restorative Dept 2. The Chairman of Pediatric Dentistry at UW 3. The Dean of Clinical Affairs from Case (Case is PBL by the way) and 4. The Executive Associate Dean from the University of Texas Houston Branch. New leadership and direction is coming to that school.

Anyone who tells you to pass on a interview invite to an established school is not looking out for your best interest. Go see it in the flesh, be as adversarial and probing as you want with the staff and students you see there. Don't just take on bad faith from SDN. That's my time on the soapbox. (Hey...don't sweat you already got a ticket to the dance anyhow)

 

[iJackTeeth]

From my understanding, there will only be one class that is PBL, and that would be the inter-professional class (consisting of 1 student from each college), and thats 2 hrs per week. The rest of the classes are lecture/lab which will be taken with DO students.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Go to USC for the name and prestige. I personally don't believe too many well-established dentists will be hiring Western graduates simply because the school is new and not really known to be excellent in any category. This is unlike USC which is very saturated with usc alumni. Apparently, USC's 2008 graduatation rate was ~90% which is higher than the national average of ~80%.

 

[Dentalpack86]

congrats on the admissions...n i have a question..how was the interview at western. I have an interview in feb n i have no idea wat to expect...any help?

 

[hsia2]

the dean that got fired from USC is now the dean at UBC dentistry (vancouver, canada)..
funny thing is , i am kind of screwed..
USC and UBC are the only 2 schools that i have a chance to get into (for this year)..
great, go to either one of them= i am screwed

 

[JessD]

I have not heard any positive thing about USC. If Western is cheaper, and they offer lectures then go to Western. When USC students post a thread and say "Don't Go to USC" then it is very risky to go there. I recommed to go and visit USC if you live in California. There are many unhappy students and they tell you to take other choices if you have any option.

PS. USC tuition for next year is 300,000 and not 266,000. See paperwrok given at interview by financial aid office!!

 

[Polarbear85]

THanks guys,

Yes USC is def expensive. If I don't get anywhere else I will choose western over USC.
Dental pack 86 look at the interview feedback section, I have written a detailed explanation there. It is very relaxing - don't get nervous, be confident- you will do fine!

 

[JennDDS]

THanks guys,

Yes USC is def expensive. If I don't get anywhere else I will choose western over USC.
Dental pack 86 look at the interview feedback section, I have written a detailed explanation there. It is very relaxing - don't get nervous, be confident- you will do fine!

Good decision. USC is not worth of 300K tuition. Good luck at Western and be proud of yourself as the first generation who graduate from Western.

 

[PDizzle]

THanks guys,

Yes USC is def expensive. If I don't get anywhere else I will choose western over USC. Dental pack 86 look at the interview feedback section, I have written a detailed explanation there. It is very relaxing - don't get nervous, be confident- you will do fine!

You answered your own question....don't go to the interview.

...unless you wanna walk around campus and see some pretty hot girls!

 

[Doc Ock]

http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=912&linkidentifier=id&itemid=912&menu_id=258

USC EDUCATIONAL expense for 2008-2009 IS $266,694

Go to the website and add it up yourselves.

The EDUCATIONAL expense (tuition, fees) not living is that figure.

You guys need to work on your quantitative reasoning.

$266,696 < $300,000

UPenn is MORE Expensive than USC in Educational expense.
UPenn lists only $13,900 for room and board. If you look carefully this is an estimate for only 9 months.

Anyone can go to USC's website and see. It is pricey but not as expensive as UPenn. AND UPenn lost their Dean too! How come?

Again, if you take what you read on SDN as gospel...then stay very far away from PBL...very far away...

 

[Hysteria24]

the dean that got fired from USC is now the dean at UBC dentistry (vancouver, canada)..
funny thing is , i am kind of screwed..
USC and UBC are the only 2 schools that i have a chance to get into (for this year)..
great, go to either one of them= i am screwed

More false info... (and so the USC misinformation continues).

Our most recent dean (stepped down last fall) is currently making his transition back to our research facility where he will once again continue his work as a researcher.

The current dean at UBC used to be the head of that research facility before leaving to pursue that opportunity.

 

[youngmc27]

USC is a good school that has been given a a bad rap by people who don't even go their or a few who are disgruntled. I love it here and I am excited for what the new Dean will bring. There are problems the building is old and a new should be built and the clinic is smaller than needs be for the class size. I am a second year at USC and I would recommend to come here to anyone that asked me. I think PBL is good but it does make learning difficult if you are not motivated. Good luck on your choice.

 

[youngmc27]

One more thing go to the interview and ask the student anything and most will tell you the truth. At least consider it, don't rely on hearsay from SDN.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

I don't understand the negative rap USC gets on this board. Every dentist I know understands USC is one the better clinical schools and the reputation especially in southern california is EXTREMELY good. Also USC dentists tend to only hire usc grads so be careful choosing western just because you want to have lectures and no pbl...think about where you want to practice. BTW, at western you will lecture with 300+ students, have no clinic, no sim-lab ready by fall and be uncertain what your education will be like.

 

[iJackTeeth]

I don't understand the negative rap USC gets on this board. Every dentist I know understands USC is one the better clinical schools and the reputation especially in southern california is EXTREMELY good. Also USC dentists tend to only hire usc grads so be careful choosing western just because you want to have lectures and no pbl...think about where you want to practice. BTW, at western you will lecture with 300+ students, have no clinic, no sim-lab ready by fall and be uncertain what your education will be like.

westerns sim lab will be off campus for the first semester, and if I remember correctly D1's will be assisting faculty in the clinic by the second semester. Some schools dont even let you see the clinic until your 3rd year

 

[armorshell]

Go to USC for the name and prestige. I personally don't believe too many well-established dentists will be hiring Western graduates simply because the school is new and not really known to be excellent in any category. This is unlike USC which is very saturated with usc alumni. Apparently, USC's 2008 graduatation rate was ~90% which is higher than the national average of ~80%.

You have some bizarre ideas about what actual dentists look for. Also, I dare you to show me where it says the national average graduation rate is anywhere near ~80%.