Western Pod Program

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JEWmongous

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Anyone apply to Western on these forums?

Since they are not part of the application service, one must apply through their own website. I believe they started taking applications in June/July. I'm planning to apply at the same time the universal application opens.
 
what am i missing here?? i thought you decided to go to scholl...
 
Anyone apply to Western on these forums?

Since they are not part of the application service, one must apply through their own website. I believe they started taking applications in June/July. I'm planning to apply at the same time the universal application opens.

I thought you already started.
 
Brother bear Jewmongous....what is going on with thee?
 
Very odd, please explain 😕😕
 
It is interesting that Western University advertises on the curriculum page for the Podiatry progrm that Podiatry students are eligible to sit for COMLEX and USMLE, in addition, to NBPME. Based on the current guidelines, DPM students are not eligible to sit for the USMLE or COMLEX exam since they are not enrolled in osteopathic medical school or allopathic medical school. USMLE requires the student be enrolled in an accredited school that leads to MD or DO degree. COMLEX requires the student be in good standing and currently enrolled in an approved osteopathic medical school. I thought that they were still in the testing phase for this and was planning to do this with a few Scholl students via sponsorship from Chicago Medical School.
 
I am applying to Western as we speak. Mailing my application to them in about an hour!! WoOHoOo....Western has some great programs running under them right now and their D.O. school is top knotch, so I am guessing their podiatry program should be in suite to follow
 
how many students will Western take 1st year? Seems like we're gonna need some more residencies fast, especially with the shortage already predicted. . .
 
how many students will Western take 1st year? Seems like we're gonna need some more residencies fast, especially with the shortage already predicted. . .

They will accept around 50 students for their first class. The Dean is really awesome, but he's totally against doing conditional acceptances. That might change, though, depending on the persuading powers of the recruiting officer, Andrea.
 
wont the first few classes be restricted until accreditation?
 
how many students will Western take 1st year? Seems like we're gonna need some more residencies fast, especially with the shortage already predicted. . .
Creating more residency spots and more pods is not the answer. A few of the good residency programs are already getting pressure to expand, and their per-resident surgical numbers will become watered down.

IMHO (so take this all with a sizable grain of salt): Yes, we need a few more good pods to adjust with population increases, but mostly, our profession need a lot less bad pods to accomplish parity, etc.

The pod schools which are graduating a class of with a sizable amount of poor students need to have their enrollment cap reduced - especially the one or two schools that are currently accepting way over their enrollment cap without penalty. I could care less if the schools accept students who did marginal in undergrad/MCAT for whatever reason, but actually letting bad students GRADUATE really is what hurts our profession. A "poor student" can be in either a clinical or academic sense, they usually go hand in hand. If you ask around, it's not hard to read between the lines and know who they are.

/soapbox 😀
 
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Creating more residency spots and more pods is not the answer. A few of the good residency programs are already getting pressure to expand, and their per-resident surgical numbers will become watered down.

IMHO (so take this all with a sizable grain of salt): Yes, we need a few more good pods to adjust with population increases, but mostly, our profession need a lot less bad pods to accomplish parity, etc.

The pod schools which are graduating a class of with a sizable amount of poor students need to have their enrollment cap reduced - especially the one or two schools that are currently accepting way over their enrollment cap without penalty. I could care less if the schools accept students who did marginal in undergrad/MCAT for whatever reason, but actually letting bad students really is what hurts our profession. A "poor student" can be in either a clinical or academic sense, they usually go hand in hand. If you ask around, it's not hard to read between the lines and know who they are.

/soapbox 😀

i agree with a lot of what you said, however it goes even further than that. besides blaming schools, why should "poor students" be able to pass Steps I, II and III? why aren't boards designed to weed out incompetent students?
 
I believe OCPM is one of the schools way over the limit. Just because they move to new facilities does not mean they can have an entering class of 125 students 😱 The bigger the class size, the more dinks you have (ie bad for the profession).
 
I believe OCPM is one of the schools way over the limit. Just because they move to new facilities does not mean they can have an entering class of 125 students 😱 The bigger the class size, the more dinks you have (ie bad for the profession).

can you prove that the actual class is 125 students? or does that include students on the 5yr program accepted in the trailing class?
 
can you prove that the actual class is 125 students? or does that include students on the 5yr program accepted in the trailing class?

I'm pretty positive its 125 new students (4 and 5 year) and not including trailing students. The 4 and 5 year students start off with very similar schedules and I believe the only difference is that the 5 year trackers do not take gross anatomy in the fall.
 
I'm pretty positive its 125 new students (4 and 5 year) and not including trailing students. The 4 and 5 year students start off with very similar schedules and I believe the only difference is that the 5 year trackers do not take gross anatomy in the fall.
so the class of 2012, lets say, would be about 110 new students entering, plus the fifth years from the year before which might be about 6 or 8 people for a grand total of ~118? what is the limit?

also, what source are you using to find factual numbers?
 
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so the class of 2012, lets say would be 110 about? what is the limit?

Not sure exactly, but you need to include the 5 year kids graduating with them too. I think your number is probably right.

One thing to remember is they may start with 125, but they sure as hell don't end with that number. All of the pod schools lose students, but some more than others.
 
I believe OCPM is one of the schools way over the limit. Just because they move to new facilities does not mean they can have an entering class of 125 students 😱 The bigger the class size, the more dinks you have (ie bad for the profession).
You read between the lines pretty well. 😉

Great students come from the over limit school(s) just like any other school, but you can't accept anyone... and graduate them. It sets ppl up for failure.

i agree with a lot of what you said, however it goes even further than that. besides blaming schools, why should "poor students" be able to pass Steps I, II and III? why aren't boards designed to weed out incompetent students?
Some of the pod schools don't have pt1 as a grad requirement; I think that's pretty crazy. It sets those ppl up for failure.

Some of the schools do a great job of only churning out 90+ percent high quality grads. As a failsafe, ABPS has the board exams that are the real gatekeepers to prevent unqualified DPM foot surgeons. That said, the pods who can't pass ABPS (or choose not to try) can still be non-surgical pods and provide very useful services that will improve the quality of life for many patients (primary foot care, derm, diabetic exams and wound care, etc).
 
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so the class of 2012, lets say, would be about 110 new students entering, plus the fifth years from the year before which might be about 6 or 8 people for a grand total of ~118? what is the limit?

also, what source are you using to find factual numbers?

You don't get it really, you have the 4 and 5 year track students taking classes TOGETHER when they begin at OCPM. The only difference is the 5 year peeps don't do gross anatomy (so the other lectures minus Gross should have about 125 students in them).

I am not certain if the past 5th years will be taking gross with the newbies. They may do gross in the summer or something.

I got the info from the OCPM July newsletter - direct from the OCPM website. It says 125 entering students.
 
...I got the info from the OCPM July newsletter - direct from the OCPM website. It says 125 entering students.
Yup^
...and chances are that the newsletter conveniently failed to mention their pt1 pass rate.

Those tuition checks are tough to turn down. 😕
 
Yup^
...and chances are that the newsletter conveniently failed to mention their pt1 pass rate.

Those tuition checks are tough to turn down. 😕

Hey, an independent pod school has to make its dough somehow, right? :laugh:
 
Anyone apply to Western on these forums?

Since they are not part of the application service, one must apply through their own website. I believe they started taking applications in June/July. I'm planning to apply at the same time the universal application opens.

what is going on here😱. i thought you are at scholl and searching everyday for you in the school library🙂
 
allright, so lets say 125 people in a class. how many do you think will really graduate?
 
I got the info from the OCPM July newsletter - direct from the OCPM website. It says 125 entering students.

Did you happen to notice the word approximately directly preceding the number 125?
 
Did you happen to notice the word approximately directly preceding the number 125?

What's the problem guy? Yea, it may not exactly be 125 but I'm sure very close to it. Overall, their pod class size is enormous and the need is not there. Mind you, it is the largest class size of ALL the podiatry schools. They moved to new facilities which is good, but definitely about time because the old building was a hole.

Where is the benefit of increasing the size of the student body besides giving more cash to OCPM? You end up accepting more dinks who shouldn't even be there in the first place and end up failing out. The ones who fail out will most likely end up bad mouthing the profession on Network.54. Ohio should worry about increasing the first time pass rate of the part 1 boards before bringing in more students. This is one reason why I am against independent pod schools, solely tuition driven.
 
Ohio should worry about increasing the first time pass rate of the part 1 boards before bringing in more students. This is one reason why I am against independent pod schools, solely tuition driven.

its easy to point fingers, maybe you should worry about passing your first class before you start pulling your hair out.
 
Did you happen to notice the word approximately directly preceding the number 125?
I've talked to upper level (even chief) residents who went to the residency fair there. They said it was a ton of students, especially first years, and it was overcrowded. They were told by first years that there were 120+. I believe them.

Out of curiousity, what is their CPME or AACPM enrollment cap? Do you know? Is it 125? I don't think it could be.

allright, so lets say 125 people in a class. how many do you think will really graduate?
Well, you are right. Not all will graduate.

The major problem I have is that a large chunk of the faculty are CWRU part-timers using mostly old exams. The school may be unaware, or they may be turning a blind eye to that since the students are passing, moving on in the program, and therefore continuing to pay tuition that feeds the machine. So, there could potentially be some "resourceful" old test collecting students who not only graduate, but sneak by the NBPME boards and graduate with a fairly high gpa by mostly just memorization of old exams. Minimal effort could lead to high gpa and marginal knowledge in a setting like that. The accepting of too many also means graduating too many, and that makes the residency shortage worse.

A school's greed and accepting enrollment far over its limit CAN and WILL hurt all pod students by possibly causing a residency shortage. It could also let some poor students "slip through the cracks" and graduate, get a residency, rep our profession, etc. THAT is what I see as the big problem. I'm not saying that all pod/med/pharm/dent/etc schools don't have a few bad apples getting a diploma every year - that is unavoidable. BUT I am saying that accepting 125 per year, disregarding the residency balance, and jeopardizing the reputation and credibility of our profession just to cash tuition checks is a bit crazy. Agreed?
 
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I've talked to upper level (even chief) residents who went to the residency fair there. They said it was a ton of students, especially first years, and it was overcrowded. They were told by first years that there were 120+. I believe them.

Out of curiousity, what is their CPME or AACPM enrollment cap? Do you know? Is it 125? I don't think it could be.

Well, you are right. Not all will graduate.

The major problem I have is that a large chunk of the faculty are CWRU part-timers using mostly old exams. The school may be unaware, or they may be turning a blind eye to that since the students are passing, moving on in the program, and therefore continuing to pay tuition that feeds the machine. So, there could potentially be some "resourceful" old test collecting students who not only graduate, but sneak by the NBPME boards and graduate with a fairly high gpa by mostly just memorization of old exams. Minimal effort could lead to high gpa and marginal knowledge in a setting like that. The accepting of too many also means graduating too many, and that makes the residency shortage worse.

A school's greed and accepting enrollment far over its limit CAN and WILL hurt all pod students by possibly causing a residency shortage. It could also let some poor students "slip through the cracks" and graduate, get a residency, rep our profession, etc. THAT is what I see as the big problem. I'm not saying that all pod/med/pharm/dent/etc schools don't have a few bad apples getting a diploma every year - that is unavoidable. BUT I am saying that accepting 125 per year, disregarding the residency balance, and jeopardizing the reputation and credibility of our profession just to cash tuition checks is a bit crazy. Agreed?

other than the old exam part, i agree with you.
 
allright, so lets say 125 people in a class. how many do you think will really graduate?

During my internship at OCPM I had the chance to talk to several 4th years and I think they said their class size was down to about 70ish. I would say only 50% of the original class end up graduating. 👎 🙁
 
During my internship at OCPM I had the chance to talk to several 4th years and I think they said their class size was down to about 70ish. I would say only 50% of the original class end up graduating. 👎 🙁

keep in mind the 4th year class size was no where near 125 or even 100 to begin with
 
keep in mind the 4th year class size was no where near 125 or even 100 to begin with

i was under the impression they were (from the students I talked to)...I guess I was mistaken, my bad. I still think its a great school and everyone has different reasons for leaving. 🙂
 
During my internship at OCPM I had the chance to talk to several 4th years and I think they said their class size was down to about 70ish. I would say only 50% of the original class end up graduating. 👎 🙁

I also had an opportunity to speak with an OCPM student, and he revealed to me that his MCAT was a 14 and that a score like that wasn't uncommon in the school. When you combine those stats with the limited clinical training they get, how do they compete for top residency spots? Also, do you think their preclinical science faculty is easier on them so that they can pass their classes?
 
I also had an opportunity to speak with an OCPM student, and he revealed to me that his MCAT was a 14 and that a score like that wasn't uncommon in the school. When you combine those stats with the limited clinical training they get, how do they compete for top residency spots? Also, do you think their preclinical science faculty is easier on them so that they can pass their classes?

Last year, an admin told me that OCPM accepts 85-90 percent of applicants. Furthermore, they used to accept so many admissions tests (GRE, PCAT, OAT, DAT, MCAT). One dude I did the internship with got accepted with taking the pharmacy admissions test. I believe they changed to solely MCAT (or MCAT/DAT) but this was quite recent.

One thing I noticed while interning at ohio was a scholarship for the 1st year students. The kids with the highest GPA would receive a half tuition scholarship (or something to that extent). It seemed weird cause a few kids had 4.0's and others very close to that. I thought it was quite rare to see those GPA's in podiatric medical school.
 
I am sorry but I have to address some of the issues brought up here. I am a first year attending OCPM, and granted, I think that they do accept too many students to "get the tuition check" but there have been several claims that have been made on here that aren't true.

My class has 119 students I was told. 5th years take all classes with us but gross, and last years 5th years take gross with us. I don't think the school is "overcrowded' except maybe at lunch. Otherwise, 3rd years are here rarely, except in the late evening/night and then it is just the 1st and 2nd years. Each class has it's own lecture hall and there is plenty of room in the school to study.

The class that just took the boards had 10 people that needed to re-take I heard, and their class has around 75 people in it.

It is true that some of the professors for our basic sciences work at CWRU, but as for old tests floating around, there aren't. There are like 2 or 3 tests from the 90's and early 2000's from the dental school (for anatomy & biochem) that EVERYONE has because they are in a public folder on the school computers that everyone can access. Other than that I have not seen any other exams. In fact, the school has a severely strict policy on how we take our exams, so that cheating and copying of the test is not allowed.

I don't think that an MCAT score of 14 is very common to be honest. I have met a lot of people who are very intelligent and hard-working. Our professors do not "water down" information so we can pass our classes. On thursday, we were given a 200 slide lecture in anatomy and are expected to know most everything in it (including any notes, verbal or written she gave). Most of us are studying after school for 3-4 hours at school and for another hour or 2 at home later during the week. This does not even include the weekend. And it is necessary if you want to keep up with the material. I have taken all these classes in undergrad, and if I felt they were easy or watered down, the extensive amount of studying would not be necessary.

I am not sure what you mean by "limited clinical training". Students go into the clinic starting their second year. I am not sure how the schedule works, but they start doing H&P's and basic exams from what I understand. In the third year, you are in the clinic 3x/week.



The half tuition scholarship is not given out to first year students. It is only given out to 2nd,3rd and 4th years. They must receive 4.0. In last year's class (now 2nd years) I heard there was only 5 who had 4.0 after the summer session, when they reward the scholarship.

As I stated before, I think that OCPM does take too many applicants, some that probably shouldn't be here, or maybe should be in the 5 year program, but I have also seen a lot of my classmates work very hard these past 3 weeks. Our first exams are coming up so we'll see how well everyone is REALLY doing. I already know some people who I think will be leaving if they don't make some drastic changes. But who's place is it to say that they should not have been accepted. I think that it is ultimately the student's choice when they are accepted by a school like OCPM. If they were a borderline applicant then they should be making an extra effort to study and pass their classes. They should know what it will take for THEM to be able to graduate. I don't think that one can necessarily place ALL the blame on the school, some blame has to be placed on the student if he/she fails out because ultimately they applied with the intentions of succeeding/finishing school and something went awry. (In addition, OCPM offers many chances to redeem oneself before you fail out of the school). If people can keep up with the work and produce good grades and eventually become good clinicians I believe they deserve to be here, whether or not the school accepts too many people.


(my caveat: I don't think OCPM is the most best, greatest pod school ever, but I came here because it was the best school for me. I think that what they do have to offer is pretty good, and needed to clear some things up so others who may be looking at the school don't get the wrong idea.)
 
nicely put longstech....thank you for taking the time to give us more insight on your school. i think if you really think about it. each school is different in what they have to offer and how they run things. there is not one specific mold that gives the best outcome. it's ultimately how much each one of us want to invest in our education that makes it all worthwhile. if you know that your school isn't up to par, i believe we can all change that independently studying other material not taught in the school. read, read, read, and read more articles and research studies.
 
I also had an opportunity to speak with an OCPM student, and he revealed to me that his MCAT was a 14 and that a score like that wasn't uncommon in the school. When you combine those stats with the limited clinical training they get, how do they compete for top residency spots? Also, do you think their preclinical science faculty is easier on them so that they can pass their classes?
Refer to my post above about old tests and passing by. "Recycling" if you will.

Last year, an admin told me that OCPM accepts 85-90 percent of applicants. ..
...and it's not shocking that their board pass rate has been significantly lower than that.
 
I am sorry but I have to address some of the issues brought up here. I am a first year attending OCPM, and granted, I think that they do accept too many students to "get the tuition check" but there have been several claims that have been made on here that aren't true.

My class has 119 students I was told. 5th years take all classes with us but gross, and last years 5th years take gross with us. I don't think the school is "overcrowded' except maybe at lunch. Otherwise, 3rd years are here rarely, except in the late evening/night and then it is just the 1st and 2nd years. Each class has it's own lecture hall and there is plenty of room in the school to study.

The class that just took the boards had 10 people that needed to re-take I heard, and their class has around 75 people in it.

It is true that some of the professors for our basic sciences work at CWRU, but as for old tests floating around, there aren't. There are like 2 or 3 tests from the 90's and early 2000's from the dental school (for anatomy & biochem) that EVERYONE has because they are in a public folder on the school computers that everyone can access. Other than that I have not seen any other exams. In fact, the school has a severely strict policy on how we take our exams, so that cheating and copying of the test is not allowed.

I don't think that an MCAT score of 14 is very common to be honest. I have met a lot of people who are very intelligent and hard-working. Our professors do not "water down" information so we can pass our classes. On thursday, we were given a 200 slide lecture in anatomy and are expected to know most everything in it (including any notes, verbal or written she gave). Most of us are studying after school for 3-4 hours at school and for another hour or 2 at home later during the week. This does not even include the weekend. And it is necessary if you want to keep up with the material. I have taken all these classes in undergrad, and if I felt they were easy or watered down, the extensive amount of studying would not be necessary.

I am not sure what you mean by "limited clinical training". Students go into the clinic starting their second year. I am not sure how the schedule works, but they start doing H&P's and basic exams from what I understand. In the third year, you are in the clinic 3x/week.



The half tuition scholarship is not given out to first year students. It is only given out to 2nd,3rd and 4th years. They must receive 4.0. In last year's class (now 2nd years) I heard there was only 5 who had 4.0 after the summer session, when they reward the scholarship.

As I stated before, I think that OCPM does take too many applicants, some that probably shouldn't be here, or maybe should be in the 5 year program, but I have also seen a lot of my classmates work very hard these past 3 weeks. Our first exams are coming up so we'll see how well everyone is REALLY doing. I already know some people who I think will be leaving if they don't make some drastic changes. But who's place is it to say that they should not have been accepted. I think that it is ultimately the student's choice when they are accepted by a school like OCPM. If they were a borderline applicant then they should be making an extra effort to study and pass their classes. They should know what it will take for THEM to be able to graduate. I don't think that one can necessarily place ALL the blame on the school, some blame has to be placed on the student if he/she fails out because ultimately they applied with the intentions of succeeding/finishing school and something went awry. (In addition, OCPM offers many chances to redeem oneself before you fail out of the school). If people can keep up with the work and produce good grades and eventually become good clinicians I believe they deserve to be here, whether or not the school accepts too many people.


(my caveat: I don't think OCPM is the most best, greatest pod school ever, but I came here because it was the best school for me. I think that what they do have to offer is pretty good, and needed to clear some things up so others who may be looking at the school don't get the wrong idea.)

Thanks for clearing up alot of the hearsay. It is more credible to hear statements from an actual student of a school, than from the rumor mill.
 
..and it's not shocking that their board pass rate has been significantly lower than that.

according to an actual student at OCPM their pass rate is within the stated range. (an 86%, with the range stated being 85-90)
 
according to an actual student at OCPM their pass rate is within the stated range. (an 86%, with the range stated being 85-90)
I'd imagine the rate fluctuates a lot with huge incoming classes.

I was told by an ocpm clerkship student (c/o 2009) that "a third" of his class, including him, failed... but passed on retake. I see no reason why he'd lie.

That is good if they increased to 86% for the c/o 2010.
 
I'd imagine the rate fluctuates a lot with huge incoming classes.

I was told by an ocpm clerkship student (c/o 2009) that "a third" of his class, including him, failed... but passed on retake. I see no reason why he'd lie.

That is good if they increased to 86% for the c/o 2010.

thats true... although, i could imagine one reason why someone would lie if they didnt pass themselves.... so they don't look as bad..

what it comes down to is the overall pass/fail rates of each school need to be published each year in a centralized publication. elimination of all of the he said, she said statistics would be great. is there anyway to politic for this?
 
Anyone apply to Western on these forums?

Since they are not part of the application service, one must apply through their own website. I believe they started taking applications in June/July. I'm planning to apply at the same time the universal application opens.

Are you the student who did study abroad programs every year during college? If so, I thought you already got conditional acceptances everywhere, which means you must have applied last cycle. Why are you applying again? If not, sorry for the mistake.
 
...what it comes down to is the overall pass/fail rates of each school need to be published each year in a centralized publication. elimination of all of the he said, she said statistics would be great. is there anyway to politic for this?
You are right. It should be public info.

The bottom line is that DMU and Scholl's students almost routinely pass pt1 at 95+% on the first sitting. AZPod has been 100% so far in their limited experience, and they can probably remain 95+% even as their class sizes go up.

The other 5 schools (Barry, Cali, Ohio, NY, Temple) are a lot more variable... more like 60-90% pass rates depending on the year.

It's easy to say that a good/bad curriculum and pod program results in a good/bad pass rate for each school, but there is a lot more to it IMO. The natural abilities of the students taking the test play a large role. The amount of time off to study for the exam is a big factor. ESL matters. etc etc
 
thats true... although, i could imagine one reason why someone would lie if they didnt pass themselves.... so they don't look as bad..

what it comes down to is the overall pass/fail rates of each school need to be published each year in a centralized publication. elimination of all of the he said, she said statistics would be great. is there anyway to politic for this?

I pushed for this when I was at APMSA meetings as a student and went so far as to draft a resolution requiring schools to make board score results public, but it was shot down by the house of delegates for a couple reasons. The worst of which was the fact that the pass rate at some schools were so bad no-one wanted it to become public knowledge. The then President said it would give anti-podiatry groups (for example the AOFAS) ammo to use against us as a profession. I argued that the only way to make positive changes in the podiatric medical education system is to hold schools accountable for their outcomes and I am still very disappointed in the decision that was made. No student should be asked to spend almost 200,000 on a degree without knowing what their chances are of passing boards and getting a good residency.
 
I pushed for this when I was at APMSA meetings as a student and went so far as to draft a resolution requiring schools to make board score results public, but it was shot down by the house of delegates for a couple reasons. The worst of which was the fact that the pass rate at some schools were so bad no-one wanted it to become public knowledge. The then President said it would give anti-podiatry groups (for example the AOFAS) ammo to use against us as a profession. I argued that the only way to make positive changes in the podiatric medical education system is to hold schools accountable for their outcomes and I am still very disappointed in the decision that was made. No student should be asked to spend almost 200,000 on a degree without knowing what their chances are of passing boards and getting a good residency.

man, that sucks. on a similar theme, recently there was a show of hands vote at school whether individual score on boards should be released to students. (to begin the process of releasing personal scores to students) this was shot down by most students. very disappointing as well. i think individual scores should be released to test takers, in addition to schools overall pass rates being made public. have you guys encountered any similar situations as well?
 
You are right. It should be public info.

The bottom line is that DMU and Scholl's students almost routinely pass pt1 at 95+% on the first sitting. AZPod has been 100% so far in their limited experience, and they can probably remain 95+% even as their class sizes go up.

The other 5 schools (Barry, Cali, Ohio, NY, Temple) are a lot more variable... more like 60-90% pass rates depending on the year.

It's easy to say that a good/bad curriculum and pod program results in a good/bad pass rate for each school, but there is a lot more to it IMO. The natural abilities of the students taking the test play a large role. The amount of time off to study for the exam is a big factor. ESL matters. etc etc


This is so true.

I think in feli's class the 1st time passing rate was 79%, and for 2010 class it was 84%.
 
i was under the impression they were (from the students I talked to)...I guess I was mistaken, my bad. I still think its a great school and everyone has different reasons for leaving. 🙂

Different Reasons:
Can't handle the courseload
Can't pass the boards
Tests are too difficult
Wasn't prepared well enough
Don't take tests well
Academic dishonesty

Just teasing.

I've asked several schools about their attrition rates, and they say silly things like people leave because of financial and family reasons but don't say the truth, such as they couldn't handle it and failed out. Yes, I'm sure people do leave for all reasons, but if you spent THAT much money on your first year, why would you leave unless it was really serious or you were kicked out.

Just for fun, call the schools and ask them some of the questions you ask on here. Make note of what each school tells you. Based on how vague and general the answer is, you can assess how honest the admissions people are. And since I believe the admissions people are representatives of the schools, you can make some good judgements. Thus, resulting in my distaste for Temple.
 
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