What about Canadian Medical Schools?

[Bartelby]

Specifically, I am applying this cycle and I am interested in applying to McGill. I am a U. S. citizen with a bachelor's degree from school in the United States, and I do not have Canadian citizenship. I have been to Montreal and loved the city, though, and I feel like medical school at McGill would be an incredible four years.

Basically, I am wondering whether they accept applicants from the United States, whether the education would differ from the education you would receive in the United States, and how it would affect acceptance to a US residency. If it would be essentially the same as going through a US MD program, I plan to apply (even though I am sure it is a long shot). I have never really heard of US students applying for medical school in Canada, though, so any information on the topic would be helpful.

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[omegaxx]

About 150 American students applied to McGill this year for about 12 seats. The competition is tough, but not too bad.

McGill is very well-respected in the US from what I understand. Its strongest point is its clinical clerkships. Canadian clerkships tend to give medical students more responsibilities in general. McGill is especially known for pushing their students to do EVERYTHING. Education-wise, I think you are in for a great deal. Tuition is a bit over 20k Canadian per year (so about 20k USD), which is another plus.

 

[mikkey]

Hey
I'm at McGill, albeit not in Med and there are tons of Americans here. McGill, as said before has 12 to 15 spots for Internationals a year for Med and some do get in, although you need top grades. Average GPA is high and they don't take too much notice at your MCAT. Montreal is great, but if you plan on going elsewhere than the McGill ghetto, speaking French is a good idea, which could possibly be a problem for your rotations. I know my friend had that problem, as some patients were very rude to her for not speaking French.

 

[Acherona]

Hey
speaking French is a good idea, which could possibly be a problem for your rotations. I know my friend had that problem, as some patients were very rude to her for not speaking French.

Speaking *quebecois* is a good idea. Imagine learning english as a second language in the scottish highlands. Then, you are dropped in the center of a detroit ghetto and expected to communicate with the native population. That's about how useful french de paris is in quebec.

 

[MSHell]

Speaking *quebecois* is a good idea. Imagine learning english as a second language in the scottish highlands. Then, you are dropped in the center of a detroit ghetto and expected to communicate with the native population. That's about how useful french de paris is in quebec.

Not quite. Not speaking french is a problem. Most people in Montreal don't mind what kind of french you speak, as long as you are able to communicate.

Mikkey, seriously, what did your friend expect going to medical school in Montreal??? As a patient, I've gotten bitchy too when a med student couldn't speak french. I like to speak my native language. In fact, so do most people.

 

[Acherona]

Not quite. Not speaking french is a problem. Most people in Montreal don't mind what kind of french you speak, as long as you are able to communicate.

Mikkey, seriously, what did your friend expect going to medical school in Montreal??? As a patient, I've gotten bitchy too when a med student couldn't speak french. I like to speak my native language. In fact, so do most people.

It doesn't matter how well you can communicate if you can't understand your patients because their accent is so...how shall we say...different.

If you want to be treated in French, why don't you go to the french hospitals. The Mcgill hospitals were founded to serve the anglophone population; it's no secret they operate in english.

 

[akinf]

It doesn't matter how well you can communicate if you can't understand your patients because their accent is so...how shall we say...different.

If you want to be treated in French, why don't you go to the french hospitals. The Mcgill hospitals were founded to serve the anglophone population; it's no secret they operate in english.

Ya...that's because illnesses wait for you to find a proper-speaking hospital before they decide to get serious!! C'mon...you are in montreal...basic french (enough to take a history and explain things) is not really that much to ask. All that can probably be learned within a couple weeks of being around french people.

 

[MSHell]

It doesn't matter how well you can communicate if you can't understand your patients because their accent is so...how shall we say...different.

If you want to be treated in French, why don't you go to the french hospitals. The Mcgill hospitals were founded to serve the anglophone population; it's no secret they operate in english.

First, I was first referred to a McGill hospital to a french-speaking doctor. The subsequent doc was french-speaking as well, just the med student who couldn't speak it!! (There are very francophone parts of the MUHC...)

Second, all doctors practicing in Quebec must know basic french (proof of education in french or passing the Collège des Médecins du Québec french test). It should be no different for med students.

 

[Acherona]

First, I was first referred to a McGill hospital to a french-speaking doctor. The subsequent doc was french-speaking as well, just the med student who couldn't speak it!! (There are very francophone parts of the MUHC...)

Second, all doctors practicing in Quebec must know basic french (proof of education in french or passing the Collège des Médecins du Québec french test). It should be no different for med students.

Why don't you tell that to the mcgill admissions committee. French is not a consideration for admission, nor is it a requirement for the wards. Students come from diverse backgrounds across canada and internationally and they may not have had the opportunity to learn it. Don't take it out on the poor med student I'm sure s/he is as frustrated as you are.

I woudn't go to Notre Dame and demand that the med students treat me in English even if I were referred to an "english" doctor. That would be absurd (and arrogant). Montreal is *bi*lingual, you need to have some linguistic tolerance.

btw, there are also docs at muhc whose french is basically monosyllabic. I don't know how they passed those exams.

 

[Acherona]

Ya...that's because illnesses wait for you to find a proper-speaking hospital before they decide to get serious!! C'mon...you are in montreal...basic french (enough to take a history and explain things) is not really that much to ask. All that can probably be learned within a couple weeks of being around french people.

The french hospitals are really not that far from the english ones. If it's such an issue for you. Like I said, you can be as proficient as you want, but if your patient is from the quebec boonies and on top of that has mumbley/slurred speech because they are sick, you still won't get a word of what they are saying. I have friends from other francophone countries and even they have trouble so how can someone who just learned french "in a couple weeks" come close to understanding?

 

[MSHell]

...I woudn't go to Notre Dame and demand that the med students treat me in English even if I were referred to an "english" doctor. That would be absurd (and arrogant). Montreal is *bi*lingual, you need to have some linguistic tolerance....

French is the only official language in Quebec, so your analogy doesn't wash.

 

[MSHell]

Why don't you tell that to the mcgill admissions committee. French is not a consideration for admission, nor is it a requirement for the wards. Students come from diverse backgrounds across canada and internationally and they may not have had the opportunity to learn it. Don't take it out on the poor med student I'm sure s/he is as frustrated as you are.
...

I brought it up with a fellowship director who basically said mcgill admissions are incestuous crackpots.

 

[Acherona]

Whatever fascist language laws the quebec government wants to impose, the fact remains that much of the city does not use french as its primary language. Like i said, you can be treated at a hospital that due to its english and international reputation is able to attract great students/residents/doctors from around the world and get the best care available in montreal, or you can go to the french hospitals where the med students don't have a college education. Your choice.

btw, I actually agree with you that the mcgill admissions should require students to learn french. But there's no reason to be an a**hole about it.

 

[boulux]

It doesn't matter how well you can communicate if you can't understand your patients because their accent is so...how shall we say...different.

If you want to be treated in French, why don't you go to the french hospitals. The Mcgill hospitals were founded to serve the anglophone population; it's no secret they operate in english.

I'm not sure I could say something dumber even if I tried...

 

[znl343]

I'm not sure I could say something dumber even if I tried...

sure you can - say it in french


I'm sorry I couldnt resist!

 

[MSHell]

Whatever fascist language laws the quebec government wants to impose, the fact remains that much of the city does not use french as its primary language. Like i said, you can be treated at a hospital that due to its english and international reputation is able to attract great students/residents/doctors from around the world and get the best care available in montreal, or you can go to the french hospitals where the med students don't have a college education. Your choice.

btw, I actually agree with you that the mcgill admissions should require students to learn french. But there's no reason to be an a**hole about it.

Fascist language laws?? Language is provincial jurisdiction. I don't complain, or care, that other provinces don't cater to my language needs, just my own province.

Europeans doctors (more like the rest of the world) don't typically have a university education prior to med school. Does that make them all crappy docs? Many of the fabulous international doctors McGill attracts do not have a prior university education.

I'm not sure french should be required for admission, but at least pass a french exam before hitting the wards. A language can be learned, yes, even in medical school.

 

[mbacs]

Hahaha. This thread is awesome.

I hope the arguing hasn't scared you away buddy... Hahaha.


Now seriously, not speaking French can be a handicap in some situations, butyou would still get a very meaninful (actualy life-changing) experience during the McGill clerkship years.

Acherona, your kind of rhetoric is very harmful to the English/anglophone community here in Montreal. For the sake of everyone here and Federal unity I strongly suggest you keep your subversive - and arguably discriminatory - views to yourself. (If you're not even Canadian... well go f*ck yourself yankball).

 

[Acherona]

Acherona, your kind of rhetoric is very harmful to the English/anglophone community here in Montreal. For the sake of everyone here and Federal unity I strongly suggest you keep your subversive - and arguably discriminatory - views to yourself. (If you're not even Canadian... well go f*ck yourself yankball).

"rhetoric", "subversive". Give me a break. It's MSHell who is discriminating against the poor med student and self-admittedly being "bitchy". I just can't imagine how someone who lives in a multicultural, multilingual city can be so intolerant. Luckily I have not come across anyone like that on the wards myself (though some of my friends have unfortunately). Obviously there are historical reasons why the official language has come to be french. That doesn't change the fact that a significant proportion of the population does not speak it! Honestly, this is your city and it is what makes it so unique. In New york there are many spanish speakers. If I go to the spanish neighborhood, I don't get all pissy when I'm not served in English! Any thoughtful, educated person I would think would understand that the demographics of language are complex, and would have some modicum of understanding.

I am not from montreal, do not identify with either the anglo or francophone population, and therefore really had no preconceived notions about the situation. I am simply offering my observations from the few years I have been here. I do not intend to be "harmful" to one group or another (but I guess the truth hurts).

to the OP: because of people like MShell as well as patients who actually don't speak english, you *must* take it upon yourself to learn french or you will have major problems on the wards. This is not as easy an undertaking as some people here would like you to believe, as the french is non-standard both grammatically and in pronunciation.

 

[Acherona]

Europeans doctors (more like the rest of the world) don't typically have a university education prior to med school. Does that make them all crappy docs? Many of the fabulous international doctors McGill attracts do not have a prior university education.

I was being somewhat facetious, but I think you should consider why you were referred to MUHC rather than a french hospital. It is generally known that McGill has more rigorous admission standards, produces more research, and I would venture has a better reputation for care in the city. And I'm saying this is not unrelated to it's being an english university. It's just comomon sense. The worldwide medical community is english speaking, and is led by the United States, from which the french hospitals are more isolated. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it does not make it untrue.

 

[mbacs]

Yawn. Yea there is this perception within the McGill community our hospitals are so much better than their francophone counterparts, we produce so much more research, etc. Frankly I feel it leads to A LOT of complacency. Acerona I suggest you pick up an issue of the Actualité’s Hospital Ranking and compare both University systems. In some areas McGill dominates in others it could do much better.

I would also suggest you do an elective in any of the fields the CHUM/Francophone system have specialized in: Heart Institute, GI/Hepatology at Saint-Luke’s, Plastic’s transplant at Notre-Dame or the Burn Centre at Hotel-Dieu.

I also suggest you consider Montreal is NOT a multicultural hodgepodge the Liberal would want us to think it is. It’s the founding city of our Confederation, lies at the crossroads of its founding peoples. As such French and English enjoy a prominent status here that has nothing to do with the conjectural presence of Spanish in some regions of the US. Every patient should be care for in the official language of their choice and if possible in the language of their choice period. Having spent some time at the CHUM, I can testify Anglophone patients are care for in English.

 

[boulux]

I was being somewhat facetious, but I think you should consider why you were referred to MUHC rather than a french hospital. It is generally known that McGill has more rigorous admission standards, produces more research, and I would venture has a better reputation for care in the city. And I'm saying this is not unrelated to it's being an english university. It's just comomon sense. The worldwide medical community is english speaking, and is led by the United States, from which the french hospitals are more isolated. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it does not make it untrue.

since when exactly???

 

[MSHell]

I was being somewhat facetious, but I think you should consider why you were referred to MUHC rather than a french hospital.

I was a child when it all began and my parents' first language is english (neither from Quebec). Mine is french (only in Montreal...). Patients are kept within the MUHC, same for CHUM. Not many transfers between the two.

You can judge me all you want, but I have the right to receive healthcare in my mother tongue. It's not fun being acutely ill and then being forced to speak a language other than one's mother tongue because of some ignorant douchebag.

Btw, I did speak with the med student in english and only made one bitchy comment at the beginning, but maybe they learned that speaking french is useful in Montreal. Or moved (back) to Ontario!

It is generally known that McGill has more rigorous admission standards, produces more research, and I would venture has a better reputation for care in the city. And I'm saying this is not unrelated to it's being an english university. It's just comomon sense. The worldwide medical community is english speaking, and is led by the United States, from which the french hospitals are more isolated. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it does not make it untrue.

Sweeping generalisations from foreigners are always fantastic

 

[nima123]

Specifically, I am applying this cycle and I am interested in applying to McGill. I am a U. S. citizen with a bachelor's degree from school in the United States, and I do not have Canadian citizenship. I have been to Montreal and loved the city, though, and I feel like medical school at McGill would be an incredible four years.

Basically, I am wondering whether they accept applicants from the United States, whether the education would differ from the education you would receive in the United States, and how it would affect acceptance to a US residency. If it would be essentially the same as going through a US MD program, I plan to apply (even though I am sure it is a long shot). I have never really heard of US students applying for medical school in Canada, though, so any information on the topic would be helpful.

It seems from your questions that you know little about Canada, Montreal, McGill and the Canadian health care system. As you may have realized, there are language issues here. If you speak zero French, you probably won't have time to improve your French to the level of fluency (at least spoken French) and that may put you in uncomfortable and awkward situations.

Getting into McGill as a foreigner is probably more difficult than getting into most US med schools. But medical education at McGill (and some other Canadian med schools) is similar to some of the best schools in the US, and doing residency in the US or going back for work is generally not an issue.

If you decide to apply to Canada, you should try to change your attitudes a bit. Canada is not just another US state, it's a sovereign and proud nation and is quite culturally distinct from the US (this is most obvious in Quebec). And McGill is one of the best medical schools in Canada and the world. It's quite frustrating that some American chaps refuse to understand this, while they enjoy the high living and educational standards of Canada and as well as the low tuitions.

 

[zizany]

(...) get the best care available in montreal, or you can go to the french hospitals where the med students don't have a college education. Your choice.
(...)

By the way, Mcgill accepts students directly from CEGEP as well as UdeM.