- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 37
So far I have...
For sure:
- Hospitalist
- Primary care
Maybe:
Urgent Care
ER
For sure:
- Hospitalist
- Primary care
Maybe:
Urgent Care
ER
What are all the options for IM trained physicians with no fellowship?
- Thread starter Captain DO
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2006
- Messages
- 69,368
- Reaction score
- 61,721
That's about it.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 37
Are you saying they offer IM less pay for urgent care than FM or ER?
Typically its around 100/hour right?
I got much higher than 100 /hr with the urgent job. You cant live off of 100 /hr.
Back to topic for me actually it wasn't like that. The company system placed IM and FM and ER people at different locations well so the IM people had a good amount of adults and a couple of adolescent people (double digit age) to justify the high pay. I think the ER people were paid higher because of the procedures they did which I avoided some.
If you can handle the patient cases and prevent people from getting sicker you deserve a good pay, dont feel like that someone else is better than you.
Back to topic for me actually it wasn't like that. The company system placed IM and FM and ER people at different locations well so the IM people had a good amount of adults and a couple of adolescent people (double digit age) to justify the high pay. I think the ER people were paid higher because of the procedures they did which I avoided some.
If you can handle the patient cases and prevent people from getting sicker you deserve a good pay, dont feel like that someone else is better than you.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,549
- Reaction score
- 998
Ha! Tell that to every person that makes less than that. (Which by the way is the vast majority of people.)
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
- Messages
- 8,045
- Reaction score
- 10,924
Correctional health and Indian health etc is also a choice, not high paying jobs but...
Insurance claims evaluator or those disability exams claims...
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,549
- Reaction score
- 998
You can start here: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm
Just look at the data for the 29-10xx categories. (And remember that median is the 50% point.)
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2013
- Messages
- 38,629
- Reaction score
- 76,564
Uh, $100/hr is 260k if you're working 50 hour weeks. How is that not enough to live on? And how do you think people survive on the average income of just over 50k a year?
Anyway, back to the topic- there's places that will let IM docs do urgent and EM care? Around here those sorts of jobs all seem to require EM, FM, or med/peds.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2009
- Messages
- 317
- Reaction score
- 83
Seems like it depends on where you go and your connections where you work. A mentor of mine back when I was as student ended up burnt out as a hospitalist. The hospital he worked for transitioned him to pain management. Though I'm not sure why you wouldn't be burnt out in pain medicine if you were in hospital medicine, there are possibilities for general medicine.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,279
- Reaction score
- 1,188
Not sure if you've grown up in a multimillion dollar household and this is just one percenter privilege talking, but the vast majority of Americans would give a kidney to live on $100 per hour workdays. Even with a wife and kids, that should be plenty to live on. I grew up in an 80k per yr household with one sibling and we did just fine...
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,279
- Reaction score
- 1,188
You could always join a VA. They have IM docs frequently work as attendings. That being said usually they get some extra training in certain procedures (fracture ex fix, nerve blocks, etc).
You're right. When doc pay drops in the coming decades let's demonize those who demand pay more than 2x the average american.
Fact is you don't know his debt situation or COL. 80k can be enough in one situation whereas 200k isn't in another.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2013
- Messages
- 218
- Reaction score
- 336
Except for the fact that the poster made a sweeping generalization about people being unable to live off of 100/hour, rather than specifying his/her own particular situation.
Though you are right, context is important
Though you are right, context is important
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 2,830
- Reaction score
- 3,386
The VA is one of those places. No kids and very few women, so minimal OB/GYN issues.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,279
- Reaction score
- 1,188
You have some major issue with me dude and I'm not sure what it is. Where did I say that he shouldn't get paid properly or that he's not got some issues with debt? I just said that most people get by just fine on $100/hr as its the equivalent of about 250k per year. I did make a generalization about privilege that was pretty tongue in cheek but that's about it. He hasn't mentioned anything about his debt situation or lifestyle or COL for me to make mention of it - all he said is that "you can't live off 100/hr", a big generalization which for most people is ridiculous.
- Joined
- May 14, 2012
- Messages
- 95
- Reaction score
- 31
someone who signed to be a prison doc from my program is gonna make BANK!!! Plus crazy benefits plus pension. I don't know where this misconception comes from...
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
- Messages
- 8,045
- Reaction score
- 10,924
Benefits are great as it is a federal jobs( unless you work for one of the subsidized companies that provide that service for them, but they take most of the $).
Please define make bank? That's relative...
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 37
If someone's goal was to work in urgent care, would you encourage IM residency or advise against it?
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 22,257
- Reaction score
- 19,540
If you really wanted a career in urgent care, I would recommend 2 things:
1. A thorough psychiatric evaluation.
2. Doing an FM residency
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2009
- Messages
- 15,492
- Reaction score
- 10,128
Or use the money that you make to invest and/or set up a business and get the hell out of medicine asap (or get the ability to practice under your conditions).
I don't know who you are and don't care. Were you in another thread? If so, you must write silly things regularly.
I'll ridicule anyone who wants to sanctify his/her lower income (you were raised on 80k/yr? Congratulations. But how is that relevant?).
And I'd bet money you are either an (undeservingly lucky) FMG w/ no debt or a mommy's boy/girl with parental support of educational debt.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 6,004
- Reaction score
- 4,360
My friend makes 180k/year with a GP license working for Indian health... 9-5pm Mon-Fri
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
- Messages
- 8,045
- Reaction score
- 10,924
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,279
- Reaction score
- 1,188
200K in debt, AMG, academic residency, starting cards fellowship in six months. But try again.
Ignore button works wonders in this instance
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 25,548
- Reaction score
- 40,738
FFS
It's so much money.... until you start taking away from it
1) taxes, what, at least 30% if not more in the typical doc's bracket
2) student loan payments, usually about $3000 per month on standard repayment plan
3) mortgage, $1200 is really really low end, think closer to 1/3 to 1/2 of your take home which many financial advisors will say is reasonable with the kind of salary we're talking, home owner's insurance, property tax, house maintenance and repair
4) healthcare (don't think it will be all coming out of your employer or cheap), more to add family
5) retirement (again, don't think employment is some all included all you can eat buffet deal)
6) disability and life insurance (skip at your peril)
7) regular savings (skip at your peril)
8) children? add college savings (even state school them taking max loans and working they will need help)
9) modest car, car insurance, gas
10) cell phone service
11) internet service
12) quality food (bye bye ramen)
13) entertainment, nothing too crazy, say a few dinners out
14) professional expenses, CME could be on you, clothes, journals, professional memberships
15) vet bills if you have pets
16) I forgot childcare above, that is usually very spendy
17) bigger heating/cooling bill cuz bigger house
big and little things that add up quick
Basically everything you are spending now, only add the huge expense of loans, house, family, and the fact that you will just automatically upgrade your standard of living,
it doesn't have to be to epic proportions either, but if you actually put pen to paper you will see
you will work VERY hard, and you will have a very COMFORTABLE life, but you will not be rich
yes you will be better off than like 95% of Americans, but that does not mean you will be rich
repeat after me, you will not be rich
you will be upper middle class and should be able to have all that you need, but you will need to budget and you will still stress about money
and you will usually find yourself wishing you had more for time you put in
medicine is the kind of job that you will wonder if any amount of money is worth it
you will only feel that it is if it is your calling
It's so much money.... until you start taking away from it
1) taxes, what, at least 30% if not more in the typical doc's bracket
2) student loan payments, usually about $3000 per month on standard repayment plan
3) mortgage, $1200 is really really low end, think closer to 1/3 to 1/2 of your take home which many financial advisors will say is reasonable with the kind of salary we're talking, home owner's insurance, property tax, house maintenance and repair
4) healthcare (don't think it will be all coming out of your employer or cheap), more to add family
5) retirement (again, don't think employment is some all included all you can eat buffet deal)
6) disability and life insurance (skip at your peril)
7) regular savings (skip at your peril)
8) children? add college savings (even state school them taking max loans and working they will need help)
9) modest car, car insurance, gas
10) cell phone service
11) internet service
12) quality food (bye bye ramen)
13) entertainment, nothing too crazy, say a few dinners out
14) professional expenses, CME could be on you, clothes, journals, professional memberships
15) vet bills if you have pets
16) I forgot childcare above, that is usually very spendy
17) bigger heating/cooling bill cuz bigger house
big and little things that add up quick
Basically everything you are spending now, only add the huge expense of loans, house, family, and the fact that you will just automatically upgrade your standard of living,
it doesn't have to be to epic proportions either, but if you actually put pen to paper you will see
you will work VERY hard, and you will have a very COMFORTABLE life, but you will not be rich
yes you will be better off than like 95% of Americans, but that does not mean you will be rich
repeat after me, you will not be rich
you will be upper middle class and should be able to have all that you need, but you will need to budget and you will still stress about money
and you will usually find yourself wishing you had more for time you put in
medicine is the kind of job that you will wonder if any amount of money is worth it
you will only feel that it is if it is your calling
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 37
Whats wrong with urgent care?
I'm genuinely asking btw, since maybe that could be read with the wrong tone. I have no idea what urgent care work would be like and have no experience in one, but from what I know it seems like it would be a good job?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 25,548
- Reaction score
- 40,738
Lord no, it's actually worse than the ED from my time in the ED and what I've been told by urgent care workers. From what I've been told:
Go read about working in the ED on this forum. The imagine all the same problems, except since it's urgent care you don't necessarily have access to stat labs and imaging..... so all the stress, uncertainty, abuse of time and resources when you see an urgent hangnail at 8 pm, but with less of the tools, support, and money.
The same bellyache that you think is nothing and was whisked away to an unnecessary yet reassuring CT in the ED
now in the black box that is urgent care becomes the bellyache that you think is nothing, but could be something, so now you're on the hook for either sending them home, or sending them to the ED for more definitive testing, and unlike the first scenario you have less information with which to make your decision and either embarrass yourself or send the patient home
unlike the ED which as someone joked almost has their RVUs factored by how much they annoy with their BS admits,
urgent care workers who send too many cases to the ED that are viewed as not needing it (always easier in hindsight which is why the ED gets so much **** from the rest of the hospital) get **** in the form of being fired
this is because there is less turnover for board certified EM physicians typically with some sort of bargaining organization
vs
urgent care which is less acute, operates entirely at the hospital's discretion, and can be staff by NPs & PAs
sure they still hire physicians but more than one type can fit what is a crappy bill
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2004
- Messages
- 28,920
- Reaction score
- 62,790
I'll happily add to what Crayola has written.
Urgent Care is full of sick/injured patients who are already angry at you because a) you're not their regular doctor b) they have to fill out the whole new patient paperwork and wait a decent while c) is usually more expensive than their regular PCP d) they feel bad e) they know what is wrong with them and what they want, and woe be upon you if you don't provide it.
I did a year of urgent care, 12 12-hour shifts per month at around $140/hr. It was the single worst year of my life. My wife told me that I was happier while on OB night float during residency than I was at this well-paying job with pretty good hours. The patients were pissed off, entitled, and loved e-mailing the hospital CEO to complain that I didn't give them antibiotics for their 12 hours of sniffles. Good medicine goes out the window in favor of efficiency and patient satisfaction. If you're too slow, patients complain about the wait. Too fast, and you didn't spend enough time with them.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,009
- Reaction score
- 6,721
that says a LOT!
- Joined
- May 14, 2012
- Messages
- 95
- Reaction score
- 31
$280 K for 4 days of work for primary care, 10-15 pts/day, plus pension, plus loan forgiveness, plus healthcare for life, plus not worrying about billing, insurance companies, not worrying about getting sued, crazy overtime pay....
Not my cup of tea, but sounds like a good gig
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2004
- Messages
- 28,920
- Reaction score
- 62,790
No it doesn't. A classmate of mine in residency did that for 6 months. She ended up with 24 board complaints that she had to answer. The inmates, as you might expect, were quite hostile and often drug seeking; little to no job satisfaction, and very limited scope.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 37
24 complaints from the inmates, despite doing no wrong? Or are you saying she made mistakes due to the hostile nature of the workplace? I guess I just don't know what would qualify as a board complaint.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 25,548
- Reaction score
- 40,738
anyone can file any complaint they like with a medical board
the medical board typically must look into any and all complaints, even if it's just to document it as an open and close BS complaint
they will usually contact you as a matter of course (this was what I was told in my state)
totally obvious stupid complaints aren't going to go anywhere, obviously
"I found the doctor's bow tie offensive"
I'm not sure if all board complaints show up in the public record (even if it doesn't say what the complaint is), but some do
but generally having any sort of medical board paper trail behind you even if not career damaging is as a gen rule a pain in the butt
the medical board typically must look into any and all complaints, even if it's just to document it as an open and close BS complaint
they will usually contact you as a matter of course (this was what I was told in my state)
totally obvious stupid complaints aren't going to go anywhere, obviously
"I found the doctor's bow tie offensive"
I'm not sure if all board complaints show up in the public record (even if it doesn't say what the complaint is), but some do
but generally having any sort of medical board paper trail behind you even if not career damaging is as a gen rule a pain in the butt
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 37
I see.
Why is it so easy to file complaints, sue, etc physicians these days... accountability is good, but seems its gone way too far.
Why is it so easy to file complaints, sue, etc physicians these days... accountability is good, but seems its gone way too far.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 22,257
- Reaction score
- 19,540
It's no harder or easier than it has been in the past. People are just more willing to do so these days because everybody is a special snowflake.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
- Messages
- 8,045
- Reaction score
- 10,924
Not my definition of making bank but pretty good $ and lifestyle!
And federal benefits are so good( awesome)that they make people put up with working for the gov.
I plan on retiring in a va.... You can work until they kick you out with no stress 🙂
