What are my chances? + advice

[DexDaDog]

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Hi all. First post!
Let's get right to it. I am a non-trad. 29 y/o male. Finishing my MS in Pharmaceutical Sciences in May (graduate GPA is 3.84). Finishing thesis and hopefully will be published (probably not in a high impact journal) before I would apply to med school.

BS in Biochemistry from The Evergreen State College (a state school in WA) received in 2013.

The concern is that my undergrad GPA and transcripts are a bit of a mess.
UNDERGRAD GPA: total 2.52, science GPA 2.46 (not including senior year)
In undergrad I went to 5 schools. My senior year was done at The Evergreen State College, which dose not give traditional grades, but "evaluations". I did really well there, but this lack of solid GPA grades is hurting my GPA. I scored in the 98th percentile on the ACS Ochem exam during senior year.

Also concerned that some of my undergraduate credits were earned too long ago to be considered fulfilling the prerequisite requirements. Will my MS credits recently earned make up for the time gap?

After graduating with my BS, I worked construction, and saved up and traveled across Vietnam for 5 months, but did not work using my degree. Luckily, I received an internship in a government microbiology lab, which made my resume strong enough to get into the MS program that I'm about to finish.

My question is, is my resume now strong enough to stand a competitive chance for medical school?

I am PLANNING on spending this next year working as a scribe (to gain clinical experience. Am also debating EMT), volunteering (still deciding on what, have previously volunteered with Red Cross, but Big Brother sounds fun), and studying for the MCAT. Plan to apply for class of 2024.

LoRs: my PI, lab manager from government internship, and hoping to get more while scribing this year.

What are your opinions , and how do you think I should best spend this next year getting prepared to apply?

Thanks so much in advance for all insight and feedback!

 

[DexDaDog]

Bump

 

[DexDaDog]

Bump... Why is no one replying? Is my application really that bad? I know MS GPA is not considered as strongly as uGPA, but my MS is pretty good.

 

[RNthenDoc]

In general, a sub-3.0 undergraduate GPA is very hard to recover from, but your case is somewhat unique so I’m not competent to even guess how it will be received. Your grad degree and pubs should help, and if you destroy the MCAT I imagine you’d have luck at schools that don’t auto-reject based on GPA.

 

[DSM_302.0]

Low GPA is tough, but it was a while ago. This is has been discussed at length. Check these out:
Below 3.0 gpa Support Group/Thread
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[DSM_302.0]

Also check out this table, keeping in mind an average MCAT is set at 500.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

 

[DocJanItor]

I started at about your GPA. You're going to need to retake your prereqs, take your mcat, and then probably do a formal postbacc or smp. You will have to perform exceptionally on all of those things to have even a reasonable chance of being accepted.

 

[DexDaDog]

Hey fellow SDN'rs,
Thank for all the replies.

I was hoping to get some specific advice on how I am planning to spend my next year.

I am planning on spending the next year scribing full time, doing non-medical volunteering, and studying for the MCAT.

1) - Do you guys think this is a good use of the next year? Is there anything else I could be doing that I hadn't mentioned/considered?

Like I mentioned above, uGPA is 2.52, sGPA 2.46. Masters in Pharmaceutical Sciences GPA 3.84
2) - How do you think my MS GPS impacts my undergrad GPA?
3) - Is there any other info I could include to help you guys get a better idea of my situation?

Thanks again guys for all the replies, keep em commin'!

 

[DocJanItor]

1) These are all good activities, but it doesn't address the underlying problem of your GPA. I noticed that you said your final school doesn't give grades but gives "evaluations". I really have no idea how that affects your ability to boost your GPA, but it would be good to know how many credits you already have on your transcript. That will give you an idea of how easy or hard it will be to boost your GPA by retaking pre-req courses.

Retaking your pre-reqs and perhaps a few other classes will also be a natural refresher for the MCAT, so it's killing 2 birds with one stone. Personally, I would not take the MCAT until the year before you're ready to apply. MCATs only have a 3 year lifespan, and you really don't want to have to retake it if, for example, you had to delay your application by a year.

Also, you only want to take the MCAT once! A single, great attempt is far more impressive than multiple attempts leading to a good score.

2) Your MS GPA, while good and in a very helpful field, has very little bearing on your uGPA or your acceptance chances. ADCOMs generally ignore MS GPAs unless they're specifically from a post-bacc or SMP. That's because those show direct performance ability in med school level courses. I don't necessarily understand or agree with their reasoning behind this, but that's the way it is.

 

[9s_2b]

@Goro has a fantastic guide to re-invention, which I recommend you read. As you already know, your uGPA will autoscreen your application out at almost every medical school. Taking postbacc courses is a great way to raise your GPA above that ~3.0 screening point, but it will take a good number in order to pull a 2.52 up to that level. Best of luck to you!

 

[Goro]

Hi all. First post!
Let's get right to it. I am a non-trad. 29 y/o male. Finishing my MS in Pharmaceutical Sciences in May (graduate GPA is 3.84). Finishing thesis and hopefully will be published (probably not in a high impact journal) before I would apply to med school.

BS in Biochemistry from The Evergreen State College (a state school in WA) received in 2013.

The concern is that my undergrad GPA and transcripts are a bit of a mess.
UNDERGRAD GPA: total 2.52, science GPA 2.46 (not including senior year)
In undergrad I went to 5 schools. My senior year was done at The Evergreen State College, which dose not give traditional grades, but "evaluations". I did really well there, but this lack of solid GPA grades is hurting my GPA. I scored in the 98th percentile on the ACS Ochem exam during senior year.

Also concerned that some of my undergraduate credits were earned too long ago to be considered fulfilling the prerequisite requirements. Will my MS credits recently earned make up for the time gap?

After graduating with my BS, I worked construction, and saved up and traveled across Vietnam for 5 months, but did not work using my degree. Luckily, I received an internship in a government microbiology lab, which made my resume strong enough to get into the MS program that I'm about to finish.

My question is, is my resume now strong enough to stand a competitive chance for medical school?

I am PLANNING on spending this next year working as a scribe (to gain clinical experience. Am also debating EMT), volunteering (still deciding on what, have previously volunteered with Red Cross, but Big Brother sounds fun), and studying for the MCAT. Plan to apply for class of 2024.

LoRs: my PI, lab manager from government internship, and hoping to get more while scribing this year.

What are your opinions , and how do you think I should best spend this next year getting prepared to apply?

Thanks so much in advance for all insight and feedback!

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[DexDaDog]

Hi guys,

Thanks for replying to my thread everyone!

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

I have read your "Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention" many times, especially the part about post-bacc, and SMP. But, it does not talk at all about how helpful for reinvention it is to obtain a MS (in Pharmaceutical Sciences w/ a major in Medical Chemistry). I have a few questions regarding my MS if you don't mind.

I haven't found much out there talking specifically about Masters degrees, but what I can find stats that MS GPA is not valued as much as post-bacc, SMP or undergrad GPAs. Do you agree with this general trend?

My MS GPS is 3.85. My uGPA is 2.50 (with upward trend). Will I still be auto screened out by my low undergraduate, before anyone can see my 3.85 GPA?

Taking postbacc courses is a great way to raise your GPA above that ~3.0 screening point, but it will take a good number in order to pull a 2.52 up to that level.

In regards to retaking classes. The point of doing this is to show that I am now capable of grade A work. Doesn't completing a MS prove the same thing? There for retaking classes additional classes after my MS is not the best use of time. What do you think?
Also, the reinvention thread suggests not to try and pull up a GPA, but to show current GPA success, right? Is this the only way to get around the screening cut offs? :C

1) These are all good activities, but it doesn't address the underlying problem of your GPA.

I know my GPA is a big (problay only) problem. But its mathematically unrealistic to try 'n' improve it. It would take years of straight As. More classes than I would need. ADCOMS have to understand this. I want to fix this GPA issue, but retaking classes cant be the answer, right?

Also, the MS program that I am in is new, and I am part of the inaugural class. Will this help or hurt my application?

And one last question that I hope Goro could answer. The MS of Pharmaceutical Sciences that I am receiving is from SIU-Edwardsville. I know this school is not a Pac-10 school, or an R1 level school. In the eyes of ad-coms, will my MS be viewed as "less than"? And if so, how much less? A 3.85 from WashU is much more impressive than a 3.85 from a first year program form SIUE, yes?

Will I stand a better chance applying to schools that have NOT heard of SIUE?

Thank you all!

 

[DexDaDog]

Oh ya, and everyone pleas feel free to reply to any and all questions. I value your opinions! The quotes are just to illustrate who prompted what questions.

Thanks guys!

 

[Goro]

Hi guys,

Thanks for replying to my thread everyone!





I have read your "Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention" many times, especially the part about post-bacc, and SMP. But, it does not talk at all about how helpful for reinvention it is to obtain a MS (in Pharmaceutical Sciences w/ a major in Medical Chemistry). I have a few questions regarding my MS if you don't mind.

I haven't found much out there talking specifically about Masters degrees, but what I can find stats that MS GPA is not valued as much as post-bacc, SMP or undergrad GPAs. Do you agree with this general trend?

My MS GPS is 3.85. My uGPA is 2.50 (with upward trend). Will I still be auto screened out by my low undergraduate, before anyone can see my 3.85 GPA?

In regards to retaking classes. The point of doing this is to show that I am now capable of grade A work. Doesn't completing a MS prove the same thing? There for retaking classes additional classes after my MS is not the best use of time. What do you think?
Also, the reinvention thread suggests not to try and pull up a GPA, but to show current GPA success, right? Is this the only way to get around the screening cut offs? :C



I know my GPA is a big (problay only) problem. But its mathematically unrealistic to try 'n' improve it. It would take years of straight As. More classes than I would need. ADCOMS have to understand this. I want to fix this GPA issue, but retaking classes cant be the answer, right?

Also, the MS program that I am in is new, and I am part of the inaugural class. Will this help or hurt my application?

And one last question that I hope Goro could answer. The MS of Pharmaceutical Sciences that I am receiving is from SIU-Edwardsville. I know this school is not a Pac-10 school, or an R1 level school. In the eyes of ad-coms, will my MS be viewed as "less than"? And if so, how much less? A 3.85 from WashU is much more impressive than a 3.85 from a first year program form SIUE, yes?

Will I stand a better chance applying to schools that have NOT heard of SIUE?

Thank you all!

A research MS is discounted by MD schools because they know there's a lot of grade inflation in them, and it's hard to assess clases like "research Techniques" or "Seminars in Neuroscience".

DO schools will count GPAs from these programs though.

Because it's a seller's market, there will be MD schools that will screen you out on GPA. But there are plenty of schools that won't for someone from a SMP.

 

[DexDaDog]

DO schools will count GPAs from these programs though.

This is both honest and helpful. I did not know this. It definitely helps with where to focus my efforts. And thanks for the explanation on why MS is less valued. Much appreciated.

 

[DocJanItor]

I know my GPA is a big (problay only) problem. But its mathematically unrealistic to try 'n' improve it. It would take years of straight As. More classes than I would need. ADCOMS have to understand this. I want to fix this GPA issue, but retaking classes cant be the answer, right?

As Goro says, it's a seller's market, so ADCOMs can pick and choose however they like. And I'll even self-deprecate a little: I have an MBA in Finance with a decent GPA. Did I do "masters" level work? Not really. My SMP was far more work and effort than my MBA.

As for uGPA, I was in the same situation as you. Around a 2.5 and so many credits that it would've taken years of A's to get to a 3.0. Obviously not a good use of my time. But 1) I needed to take the pre-reqs for the MCAT anyway and 2) performing well in those classes can be a step toward getting into an SMP (along with a good MCAT). If you're shooting for an MD program, this is likely your only path right now. As Goro indicated, DO can be more accepting of your MS GPA and could result in an easier/cheaper path.