What are my chances/am I less competitive than I think?

[looptheloop]

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Hi all,

I am applying this cycle with what I thought was a good application. However, in reading some other posts, I've begun to doubt whether my application is as competitive as I think it is. My school list is very top-heavy with a couple safety schools, but now I'm wondering if I need to add more lower-tier schools.

Also, until a few minutes ago, I never thought that the undergraduate institution one attends plays a big role in gaining admission to top schools. This is what the sticky here says, too. But, not too long ago, I read a few posts where people basically said that if you didn't go to an Ivy for undergrad, good luck getting into an Ivy for MSTP! I am now starting to wonder if my impression about this was wrong, too.

Relevant info:
- white female
- 4.12 institutional GPA (3.97 sGPA and 3.96 cGPA are my estimated AMCAS GPAs)
- 519 MCAT
- 3 years research (4 by time of matriculation)
- Goldwater Scholarship
- One 1st author pub, one 2nd author, one co-authored; I expect two more 1st-author pubs and at least one other co-authored pub in the next year if things go well
- Honors Thesis; will have MS Thesis by time of matriculation (I am a dual BS/MS student)
- 500 hours shadowing
- 195 hours non-clinical volunteering
- Vice President of an undergraduate STEM research student organization at my school (served as Secretary before I became VP)
- I used to be a semi-professional ballet dancer; I took some time off of school to go dance in Russia
- I go to a state university. It is the biggest research university in my state, but it is still a state school. Will this hurt me?
- I was chosen from my entire university to receive an award from the Board of Regents of my state's university system this past year in recognition of my academic and research achievements. This is the highest academic merit award given by my university and by the university system of my state
- Travel awards to two conferences, one of them a national conference that is the largest gathering of scientists in my field in the world. Poster award at this national conference. Several other poster/oral presentation awards at various other (less significant) conferences.
- In addition to the Goldwater Scholarship, my undergraduate research was supported by an NIH-funded fellowship, an NSF-funded fellowship, and an assistantship from my university; also two summer research fellowships (not REUs, at my university)
- I received the highest award given by my department and was the inaugural recipient of an endowed scholarship in my field of study (this was also a departmental award). I have received multiple other smaller scholarships and awards as well from my university as well as one from my field's professional society
- Teaching experience: other than the usual TA assignments for lower-level undergraduate labs, I was a TA for a cross-listed senior/graduate level laboratory course and have taught a one-credit-hour course in my field. Currently, I am a TA for an undergraduate research lab course (but I was dumb and forgot to include this in my application; oh well).
- I have trained/mentored four other undergraduates in my lab on various projects.
- I have a number of what I believe will be very good letters of recommendation (probably too many, to be honest; good thing my school has a pre-medical committee).

Okay...I think that's everything. My question is: is my application good enough to get into top MSTPs, or am I kidding myself? I know that all the other applicants have just as good of a GPA and MCAT scores as me, or better. I am hoping that my Goldwater, publications, extensive research experience, and ballet history will help me stand out. Am I just giving myself false hopes, though?

Thanks in advance for your kind help! I appreciate any advice/input/perspectives anyone has to offer.

 

[mr.scienceguythebadman]

IMO extremely competitive for top tier programs. But also don't go lightly on the application. Have a compelling story across the prompts and state clearly what you did your research on, why you want to pursue the MSTP training, and your future aspirations. If you write a good application, the sky is the limit.

 

[looptheloop]

IMO extremely competitive for top tier programs. But also don't go lightly on the application. Have a compelling story across the prompts and state clearly what you did your research on, why you want to pursue the MSTP training, and your future aspirations. If you write a good application, the sky is the limit.

Oh my gosh, I honestly just breathed a sigh of relief. I know that might sound stupid, but the only feedback I've had on my application has been from friends and family (other than professors/faculty advisors who were kind enough to read through my essays), so this entire time I've felt good about it but also had this lingering doubt in the back of my mind. It is really helpful to hear somebody's objective opinion! Thank you!

I feel pretty good about my essays. I had a hard time getting started but, once I got over that energy barrier, everything started coming together on paper. I ended up writing my PS as a narrative in which I discussed my ballet past, my inspiration for wanting to be a doctor (personal experience with chronic illness, among other things), and a memorable shadowing experience that reaffirmed my decision to study medicine. I focused almost exclusively on medicine in that essay (plus the ballet stuff). My MD/PhD essay was something in between a narrative and something more straightforward. I talked about how and when I got interested in research, described an experience that I consider to be my "defining moment" of when I knew research would be part of my life forever, outlined my professional aspirations, and then made my case for why the dual degree is the most effective way to accomplish my goals compared to either degree alone. Finally, my research statement was very straightforward and more technical. I gave an overview of what my lab does and then had a paragraph for each of my projects in order of importance rather than chronologically. Ultimately, I tried to have each of the essays come from a slightly different perspective so that, taken together, they give a well-rounded picture of me as a person, scientist, and future doctor. Hopefully, this will come across when the adcoms read them.

I realize you totally did not ask me to tell you all that...haha. Thank you again!

 

[Principia]

I agree. Your application seems very competitive for MSTP based on what you have posted. I would encourage you to apply relatively broadly to schools that have several PIs in your field of interest because you never know how exactly your experiences will be received, but I would not be surprised if you received several IIs from top 10/20 MSTPs.

 

[mr.scienceguythebadman]

Oh my gosh, I honestly just breathed a sigh of relief. I know that might sound stupid, but the only feedback I've had on my application has been from friends and family (other than professors/faculty advisors who were kind enough to read through my essays), so this entire time I've felt good about it but also had this lingering doubt in the back of my mind. It is really helpful to hear somebody's objective opinion! Thank you!

I feel pretty good about my essays. I had a hard time getting started but, once I got over that energy barrier, everything started coming together on paper. I ended up writing my PS as a narrative in which I discussed my ballet past, my inspiration for wanting to be a doctor (personal experience with chronic illness, among other things), and a memorable shadowing experience that reaffirmed my decision to study medicine. I focused almost exclusively on medicine in that essay (plus the ballet stuff). My MD/PhD essay was something in between a narrative and something more straightforward. I talked about how and when I got interested in research, described an experience that I consider to be my "defining moment" of when I knew research would be part of my life forever, outlined my professional aspirations, and then made my case for why the dual degree is the most effective way to accomplish my goals compared to either degree alone. Finally, my research statement was very straightforward and more technical. I gave an overview of what my lab does and then had a paragraph for each of my projects in order of importance rather than chronologically. Ultimately, I tried to have each of the essays come from a slightly different perspective so that, taken together, they give a well-rounded picture of me as a person, scientist, and future doctor. Hopefully, this will come across when the adcoms read them.

I realize you totally did not ask me to tell you all that...haha. Thank you again!

If you haven't submitted your essays, I also highly suggest having a theme for each essay. The way I thought about it when I was applying was, just putting myself in adcom's positions. We are all highly heuristic creatures that employ a lot of intuitions when making decisions. Just think of lectures that you thought were good. They probably conveyed a very strong take home message which was simple to digest. This is also what I tried to do in my app. Making sure message is clear so that by the time someone is done reading the essay they can sum it what it was trying to say in one sentence.

 

[Fencer]

An important point to remember: despite your numbers and qualifications, there are at least 150-200 with similar qualifications. Every top MSTP that you apply and complete secondary, will examine your application, but every time you will have 1 on 3 to be invited to interviews (unless your essays disappoint or turned off the reviewer). You still must apply to: 10 dream MSTPs, 10 match MSTPs, and 5 MSTPs that are competitive in your area of interest but that have lower average numbers than yours. A relatively low-tier MSTP might still be your best match given the strength of their faculty in the area of your interest.

Here are some resources:

• 2017 NIH Funding per departments (typically updated every Feb/Mar for preceding year)
• 2017 cycle AAMC Table B-8 (typically updated every mid-December) - examine # of applicants per matriculating position.
• 2017-18 MSTP List at NIGMS website (typically updated every October)

 

[rtn1]

An important point to remember: despite your numbers and qualifications, there are at least 150-200 with similar qualifications. Every top MSTP that you apply and complete secondary, will examine your application, but every time you will have 1 on 3 to be invited to interviews (unless your essays disappoint or turned off the reviewer). You still must apply to: 10 dream MSTPs, 10 match MSTPs, and 5 MSTPs that are competitive in your area of interest but that have lower average numbers than yours. A relatively low-tier MSTP might still be your best match given the strength of their faculty in the area of your interest.

What are considered "match" MSTPs?

 

[looptheloop]

• 2017 cycle AAMC Table B-8 (typically updated every mid-December) - examine # of applicants per matriculating position.

Oh, my. That table is intimidating! But very useful -- thank you. I knew that the typical incoming MSTP class size is ~5-10 students, but didn't realize quite how many applicants there are. I wish it were possible to know what the actual acceptance rates are. They certainly have to be higher than the matriculation rates, but it would be nice to know by how much. I have never seen that kind of info anywhere, though.

An important point to remember: despite your numbers and qualifications, there are at least 150-200 with similar qualifications.

So...what does an applicant like me have to do to stand out? I am aware that almost every applicant to these programs has comparable stats to me. Everything I read seems to say that, since everyone is on the same level grades-wise, you need something truly amazing or different to stand out. It seems like a lot of people consider Goldwater and first-author pubs to fall into that "something amazing" category. So, the 150-200 number you give -- is that referring to people with similar grades/MCAT/research alone? Or, do you mean that there are 150-200 other people with a prestigious scholarship/first-author pubs/"something amazing?"

If the latter, then it kind of seems like the only point of comparison/evaluation is how the interview goes.

I applied for 21 schools and my wallet is crying, but I now I feel like I might need to add more. Part of me feels like I am almost guaranteed to get in somewhere (I know this is not true), but the other part of me is traumatized by those matriculation rates! >_<

 

[looptheloop]

If you haven't submitted your essays, I also highly suggest having a theme for each essay. The way I thought about it when I was applying was, just putting myself in adcom's positions. We are all highly heuristic creatures that employ a lot of intuitions when making decisions. Just think of lectures that you thought were good. They probably conveyed a very strong take home message which was simple to digest. This is also what I tried to do in my app. Making sure message is clear so that by the time someone is done reading the essay they can sum it what it was trying to say in one sentence.

Thanks, mr.science! I already submitted my essays. In retrospect, I think I did have a "theme" of sorts for each one. I think? Haha. Have you submitted your essays yet (I see your status says pre-medical)? If yes, would you be opposed to me sending you my essays in a PM?

 

[looptheloop]

I agree. Your application seems very competitive for MSTP based on what you have posted. I would encourage you to apply relatively broadly to schools that have several PIs in your field of interest because you never know how exactly your experiences will be received, but I would not be surprised if you received several IIs from top 10/20 MSTPs.

Ah, I hope you are right! My field is chemistry (specifically, biophysical chemistry). Since chemistry isn't a super niche field, essentially all of the top programs have something to offer. Granted, biophysical chemistry specifically is somewhat more niche, but the type of research I am interested in could fall under the guise of biophysics, biochemistry, physical chemistry, and maybe even molecular biology, if not strictly "biophysical chemistry."

I should probably take a more comprehensive look at some of the mid- to low-tier schools that do have highly ranked chemistry programs.

 

[Lucca]

Ah, I hope you are right! My field is chemistry (specifically, biophysical chemistry). Since chemistry isn't a super niche field, essentially all of the top programs have something to offer. Granted, biophysical chemistry specifically is somewhat more niche, but the type of research I am interested in could fall under the guise of biophysics, biochemistry, physical chemistry, and maybe even molecular biology, if not strictly "biophysical chemistry."

I should probably take a more comprehensive look at some of the mid- to low-tier schools that do have highly ranked chemistry programs.

I’m also a physical chemist who does biology. I’d recommend having some programs on your list with not-ultra-competitive med schools but strong biophysics/chemistry. USC/CalTech, Pitt/CMU are good examples. Good luck! I think you’ll do great.

 

[looptheloop]

I’m also a physical chemist who does biology. I’d recommend having some programs on your list with not-ultra-competitive med schools but strong biophysics/chemistry. USC/CalTech, Pitt/CMU are good examples. Good luck! I think you’ll do great.

Yay, a fellow physical chemist 🙂 Thank you for the suggestions! When I get home tonight, I will have a look at those schools and probably end up adding them (or others like them).

 

[Lucca]

Yay, a fellow physical chemist 🙂 Thank you for the suggestions! When I get home tonight, I will have a look at those schools and probably end up adding them (or others like them).

I think you’ll get loads of interviews so you don’t need to apply to 30 schools or anything, but these kinds of schools will probably give you more options!

 

[Fencer]

In general, you need about 8-12 interviews to get about 3-5 acceptances, for you to choose where to go. It obviously depends on the applicant being interviewed, but success rate is about 1/4 - 1/2 of interviewees will have an eventual acceptance into the MD/PhD program.

In the big picture, the likelihood that a MD/PhD applicant receives at least one MD/PhD acceptance is about 42%. This has been relatively stable over the past few years. For the 2017 cycle, there were 1,815 applicants with 755 of them (41.6%) receiving at least one MD/PhD acceptance. Out of the 1815 applicants, 7 withdrew themselves prior to any acceptance from all programs. Thus, the true denominator is 1,808 with 41.8% getting at least one MD/PhD acceptance. Out of those 755 getting an acceptance, 27 deferred to a later class, 87 withdrew after acceptance (likely to a MD-only program), and 2 had rescinded acceptances, leading to a MD/PhD class of 639 students who are currently accepted or already enrolled.