What are my chances of getting into a PhD program?

[BobbyMac]

I saw that other thread that asked this question and I think it's a question a lot of us want to ask. Here's my situation: Recently laid off salesman looking to make a career change. I have a Bachelors in Psychology from 1998 and three years of experience supervising adolescents in a group home setting 1997-2000. Since then I've done a lot of marketing, graphic design, and online sales type work.

I'm 33 years old now, and I would ideally like to enter into a PhD program rather than have to go through a Masters program first, but I don't have any psychology research experience and my gpa from 10 years ago is around 3.0. Is there anything I could possibly do to better my chances?

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[erg923]

The clinical experience you have, while relevant and honorable, will not buy you anything with Ph.D. programs. Clinical experience is really onlt valued for Psy.D admisson. However, if you have no research experience, a 3.0 GPA, and no academic/psychology letter writers, your chances for Ph.D or Psy.D are nill at the moment. You will need to boost that GPA (which means you may have to get a masters first) and you will HAVE to get research experience if you want the Ph.D. Please keep in mind the research aspects of the Ph.D degree vs the Psy.D degrew when seeking the best option for you. If you really dont like or cant hack the research aspect, the Ph.D. is not for you anyway. I would also strongly advise researching your options here. This is a long road of education (6.5 years is average length to complete a Ph.D. in clinical) and time commitment. Not something you wanna jump into if are just got laid off and might want a quick career change. Keep in mind you would be 40 (probably over) by the time you could actually have this new career.

If you are simply interested in being a therapist, I would advise doing something along the lines of MSW.

 

[BobbyMac]

Thanks for your response. I'm certainly not jumping into it, I've thought about going back to school for Psych since I got my Bachelors.. my career just went down a different path. My ultimate goal is to attain a research-based career in social psychology, so I'm thinking the PhD would be the way to go. I realize PsyD programs are often easier to get into, but I don't think that suits my needs, and really from my experience, it's not a very respected degree to hold.

 

[cara susanna]

You probably want a PhD in social psych, then, not clinical. It's something of a different animal, though no less competitive and difficult (or so I've heard).

I suggest working as a paid or even volunteer RA for a few years, if you can get a position like that.

 

[erg923]

oh ok..yes then a Ph.D. in social is the way to go. You will still need to boost your GPA and get some research experience however. But the social programs are less competitive than clinical, so that should be good news.

 

[BobbyMac]

Thanks Cara, this is really clearing everything up for me.

 

[bus2psych]

erg923 can you perhaps give me some guidance as well....

I have a bachelors in business administration and a masters in management. After 3 years in the management field I am desperate for a career change. I want to now pursue counseling and eventually teaching. However, I am VERY lost on what my first steps should be. I am looking at MSW, MA in clinical, MA in counseling, PhD in (both) clinical and counseling, and now you just mentioned Social Psych (???).

Since I already have a masters I would like to go straight into a PhD program, but I have no research experience, and no real psych background. I finished my Masters with a 3.85 so I'm not concerned about the GPA, but that's all I seem to offer at the moment.

Should I try to find a position as a research assistant? (if so, where can I look) Or should I suck it up and apply for the MA or MSW as a first step into this field? If so, which degree is the most marketable for employment?

 

[cara susanna]

Clinical psych deals with psychopathology and can be research and clinical-based. Social psych is entirely research-based and deals with behavior in the real or imagined presence of others.

If you want to teach and do research as well as practice, you'll probably need the PhD in clinical. PsyD, MSW, etc., aren't really research-based and I'm pretty sure most institutions won't let you teach without a PhD.

Have you ever taken a psych class? You may want to do that first.

 

[BobbyMac]

I am unclear about UCLA's social psychology program. It makes it seem like a student applies and enrolls into a PhD program but gets a Masters on the way. Is this how it appears to those of you with more experience with psych programs?

http://www.psych.ucla.edu/Grads/Areas/social.php

 

[erg923]

erg923 can you perhaps give me some guidance as well....

I have a bachelors in business administration and a masters in management. After 3 years in the management field I am desperate for a career change. I want to now pursue counseling and eventually teaching. However, I am VERY lost on what my first steps should be. I am looking at MSW, MA in clinical, MA in counseling, PhD in (both) clinical and counseling, and now you just mentioned Social Psych (???).

Since I already have a masters I would like to go straight into a PhD program, but I have no research experience, and no real psych background. I finished my Masters with a 3.85 so I'm not concerned about the GPA, but that's all I seem to offer at the moment.

Should I try to find a position as a research assistant? (if so, where can I look) Or should I suck it up and apply for the MA or MSW as a first step into this field? If so, which degree is the most marketable for employment?

I mentioned a Ph.D. in social psych for the the orginal poster because, if you read his second post, he clarifies that he is not interested in clinical aspects of psych...he states he wanted a research-based program specializing in social psychology.

Your first step is to get yourself straight on the degrees and what your career goals/interests are. You ran down the proverbial laundry list of all the degrees that have a therapy or couseling componet. I actuality these are very different degrres, with very different underlying orientations and approaches. Big differences between social work and clinical psych. And much different skills sets needed for MSW vs Ph.D. in clinical (or couseling psych). MSW is not really a stepping stone to a doctoral program in psych either, they are really 2 different fields. The only similarity will be you the popualtion you might work with. Certianlu peopl can go from one to the other if they get ther right expereicnes, but that is by no means an efficent route to take if the Ph.D. is the ultimate goal from day 1.

Second step is to get some experience and be able to make an educated decision about whether this field is really for you. If you've never even taken a psych class, I would advise not attempting to jumping in blind or half cocked. You cant go anywhere yet anyway since you havn't had a class or research experience. So, I would advise doing both. The research aspect is of the utmost importance for the Ph.D degree, which, although it prepares one for practice, is a highly academic and research driven degree. Yoiu can search for RA jobs on the websites of any acedemic medical center/hopsital in your area. Also, university/college psychology departments (although they tend to give preferences to students) or other private researchers/practioners in your area.

 

[JockNerd]

I am unclear about UCLA's social psychology program. It makes it seem like a student applies and enrolls into a PhD program but gets a Masters on the way. Is this how it appears to those of you with more experience with psych programs?

http://www.psych.ucla.edu/Grads/Areas/social.php

A lot (most? many, at least) programs admit people for a PhD, and they get their masters in course.

If you want to teach and do research as well as practice, you'll probably need the PhD in clinical. PsyD, MSW, etc., aren't really research-based and I'm pretty sure most institutions won't let you teach without a PhD.

Depends on the goals of the applicants. Masters-level people can teach at community colleges or small liberal arts places.

 

[BobbyMac]

If I were ever, say in my old age nearing retirement, interested in going into practice after receiving a phd in social psychology, would I need to seek additional education?

 

[erg923]

If I were ever, say in my old age nearing retirement, interested in going into practice after receiving a phd in social psychology, would I need to seek additional education?

Private practice? You are not clinically trained in a social psych program. Its an experimental branch

 

[BobbyMac]

So would that be what is referred to as re-specialization? I'm just curious.

 

[erg923]

yes, you would have to do a clinical respecialization. Not too many places offer them. I know a handful. generally takes 3 years. If you were nearing retirement, this would not be a wise financial decision however. Respecialization can be expensive and building a PP takes time to build a refferal base. If you're nearing retirement age by the time you do all this, the earning potential is just not there.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If you want to teach and do research as well as practice, you'll probably need the PhD in clinical. PsyD, MSW, etc., aren't really research-based and I'm pretty sure most institutions won't let you teach without a PhD.

This is incorrect.

Inferring that the Psy.D. isn't research based is quite a misnomer. There is still a research component, but generally a Ph.D. will have more of a focus on research.

Many people teach with a Psy.D.....though if you want to be a full-time academic, you'd probably be better served getting a Ph.D.....because they are still the majority and you typically will get more exposure to research, which is a major part of most/all full-time academic teaching positions. There are plenty of good Psy.D. academics, but much fewer (%'s) are full-time academics.

 

[bus2psych]

I mentioned a Ph.D. in social psych for the the orginal poster because, if you read his second post, he clarifies that he is not interested in clinical aspects of psych...he states he wanted a research-based program specializing in social psychology.

Your first step is to get yourself straight on the degrees and what your career goals/interests are. You ran down the proverbial laundry list of all the degrees that have a therapy or couseling componet. I actuality these are very different degrres, with very different underlying orientations and approaches. Big differences between social work and clinical psych. And much different skills sets needed for MSW vs Ph.D. in clinical (or couseling psych). MSW is not really a stepping stone to a doctoral program in psych either, they are really 2 different fields. The only similarity will be you the popualtion you might work with. Certianlu peopl can go from one to the other if they get ther right expereicnes, but that is by no means an efficent route to take if the Ph.D. is the ultimate goal from day 1.

Second step is to get some experience and be able to make an educated decision about whether this field is really for you. If you've never even taken a psych class, I would advise not attempting to jumping in blind or half cocked. You cant go anywhere yet anyway since you havn't had a class or research experience. So, I would advise doing both. The research aspect is of the utmost importance for the Ph.D degree, which, although it prepares one for practice, is a highly academic and research driven degree. Yoiu can search for RA jobs on the websites of any acedemic medical center/hopsital in your area. Also, university/college psychology departments (although they tend to give preferences to students) or other private researchers/practioners in your area.

I'm definitely still in the research phase of my transition, and I appreciate all the information regarding the different fields. I had several psychology classes and one research methods class in undergrad, but I know that is not enough to gain acceptance into a PhD program.
From reading most of the threads, and doing additional research, I believe I want to move into clinical psych. My passion is teaching, and I know research comes with that, so I would love to get the PhD. With that, would you recommend an MA in clinical psych before trying for the PhD? With no research experience, what are my chances of gaining accepted?

 

[cara susanna]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that PsyD has no research at all.

Apparently I was wrong about PsyDs being able to hold academic positions. I'll have to remember that in the future.

 

[erg923]

I'm definitely still in the research phase of my transition, and I appreciate all the information regarding the different fields. I had several psychology classes and one research methods class in undergrad, but I know that is not enough to gain acceptance into a PhD program.
From reading most of the threads, and doing additional research, I believe I want to move into clinical psych. My passion is teaching, and I know research comes with that, so I would love to get the PhD. With that, would you recommend an MA in clinical psych before trying for the PhD? With no research experience, what are my chances of gaining accepted?

If your passion is teaching psychology, you can do that with a Psy.D as well, even a masters if you teach at the community college level. Ph.D. is necessary if you would really like a faculty position at a larger university though. And at that level, your career focus is research driven. Unless you can can get heavily involved in research for a couple years before you consider applying, you will probably have to go the long route (i.e., masters first). If your GPA is is good and you can get good letters, you can probably get into a masters in clinical even if you lack research. But, if you still want the Ph.D. after that, make sure you get a masters program that has a heavy research component and masters thesis requirement.

 

[myelin]

I'm definitely still in the research phase of my transition, and I appreciate all the information regarding the different fields. I had several psychology classes and one research methods class in undergrad, but I know that is not enough to gain acceptance into a PhD program.
From reading most of the threads, and doing additional research, I believe I want to move into clinical psych. My passion is teaching, and I know research comes with that, so I would love to get the PhD. With that, would you recommend an MA in clinical psych before trying for the PhD? With no research experience, what are my chances of gaining accepted?

w/o research experience, your chances at gaining admission to a PhD program are slim to none. I'd recommend the MA to PhD route first. Or if you have time, become an RA for a year or so and then apply to PhD. Truthfully in your situation, I'd recommed the MA to PhD route because you can gain a MA and research experience at the same time.

 

[deleted176373]

w/o research experience, your chances at gaining admission to a PhD program are slim to none. I'd recommend the MA to PhD route first. Or if you have time, become an RA for a year or so and then apply to PhD. Truthfully in your situation, I'd recommed the MA to PhD route because you can gain a MA and research experience at the same time.

I agree, this is good advice. A solid research oriented Masters program with solid research will gain you admission to a good Ph.D. program. It will be challenging enough to gain admittance to a GOOD Masters program (but certainly within your reach with solid GRE scores.)

Despite what others have said, Social Ph.D. programs can still be VERY competitive to gain access to, especially at top schools. I would consider UCLA to probably be in that club.

http://www.socialpsychology.org/ranking.htm <- This is dated, but in 1997 they were tied for #2, below are listed the top 10 programs in 1997.

Stanford University
University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
Yale University
University of California--Los Angeles
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Harvard University
University of Minnesota--Twin Cities
University of Pennsylvania
University of California--Berkeley
University of California--San Diego
Carnegie Mellon University

That's pretty solid company, while the rankings may not always mean alot, a top tier program will always be very competitive.

Mark

 

[Cosmo75]

I went back to psych after a 7 year stint in the corporate world. I was 28, so not much younger than you. I'm on internship now, getting my PsyD. Like others have said, the amount of research you do is up to you in these programs for the most part. I liked that approach because I felt like I had more control over my choices for areas to study, etc. I'm not sure if that's an accurate statement compared to a PhD program, but that was my perception when choosing where to attend school. I did 4 years of research, which was definitely more than most people in my cohort. I also taught in my school's masters program for 3 semesters.

I guess my point of posting is it's never too late to go back If you're unhappy in your current career, with the proper planning you can escape and go back to what you truly enjoy. Just make sure psych is what that is. I spent about 3 years thinking/planning/saving money before I went back. If this is what you end up wanting, go for it.