Okay, so I graduated in May with a 3.7 overall GPA, 3.6 science GPA, but when I took my MCAT in September, unfortunately I got 490. I will be retaking the exam in April, but if I don't improve much, what would be my chances getting into SGU? I'm a medical scribe, a pharm tech and I have over 100 hours of volunteering and 100+ hours of shadowing. I have also volunteered for amnesty international events in my area, and for food drives as well. I was a youth parliamentarian for a small non profit organization and I'm also an amateur bodybuilder. So if anyone has any feedback, what are my chances of getting into SGU with those stats?
What Are My Chances of Getting Into SGU?
- Thread starter ATM92
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Do you have a checkbook?
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There are about 345923590890852039582309582309 threads on this site about why you shouldn't go to a Caribbean school. Find your weakness, study hard, retake the MCAT when you're ready. If you just can't do better on it after 1 or 2 retakes find a different career. PA, NP, Podiatry are all better options that going to the Caribbean, not being able to match into a US residency, and ending up in non-forgivable 6 figure debt.
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Don't forget about the pulse. OP needs to be breathing.
That's why I asked about SGU specifically. They have a very high residency placement. Besides, I'm interested in internal medicine, it's not like I'm going to be going into neurosurgery.
I wonder if you were asked the same question when you were listing your EC's as well in your application.
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50% match rate is pretty high. I mean, that's like half!
Where did you get than number from?
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This is common knowledge. On par with the sky being blue and water being wet.
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LOL^😆
Sometimes I wonder if people just apply to medical school for the hell of it.
This might come off as harsh but FWIW you're better off not going to medical school at all than going to the carribean if you want to practice in the states.
There is data everywhere to support this claim, I'm too lazy to provide it
https://postgrad.sgu.edu/residencyappointmentdirectory.aspx?year=2015 Not according to this data.
Besides, all of the ER doctors in the hospital that I work in are Caribbean medical school graduates.
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The percentage of people that enter the doors of SGU and are even permitted to take the steps is very low. Of those people who actually take the exam, another small percentage make it to the match. Then about 50% of that small percentage who make it to the match actually match into any residency at all. I'm not going to sift through all the threads on here to find exact numbers. You can do that if you wish.
But my rough guess would be that maybe 10% of the people who walk into a Caribbean school walk out with just any residency in hand. Keep in mind that they could be prelim spots or spots in undesirable locations. With the expansion of medical schools in the US and the DO/MD merger, that percentage will just keep decreasing.
You can trust an SGU source if you wish, but look up data from other sources as well. If you want to commit career suicide, that's your choice.
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Your "data" if you can even call it that is on their website?
I know you're not that dense...
Use a neutral source, idk, like NRMP or AAMC.
and that last part, is concerning. They are all also probably 40+. Times change, and the fact is that FMG/IMG acceptance into match is decreasing gradually.
Schools find ways to skew their numbers by omitting or adding irrelevant data points (people)
I know you're not that dense...
Use a neutral source, idk, like NRMP or AAMC.
and that last part, is concerning. They are all also probably 40+. Times change, and the fact is that FMG/IMG acceptance into match is decreasing gradually.
Schools find ways to skew their numbers by omitting or adding irrelevant data points (people)
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Funny, the first paragraph on that page says this: "On average, 29% of our graduating classes obtain residencies not through the National Resident Match Program."
edit: Didn't see the word "not" in there LOL
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OP, the point that everyone here is trying to make is that going to the Caribbean is HUGE gamble. You're literally spending hundreds of thousands of dollars with a fairly decent chance that you won't even graduate let alone match into a US residency in any specialty.
There are approximately a squillion threads on this site that attest to the Carib's shady reporting of residency match data and attrition rates. There are also plenty of blogs recounting the experiences of folks who went Carib with less than great results. (Here's just one: https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/counting-the-points/)
And yes, everyone knows someone (or knows someone who knows someone) who went to SGU (or Ross/Saba/etc.) who managed to match into a US residency in their field of choice. But the reality seems to be that these people are the exception, not the rule. It's easy to tell yourself that you'll be the exception, too, but it's more likely that you won't be. These schools exist to make money off of unsuspecting, desperate premeds with less than stellar stats.
You'd have a much better chance retaking the MCAT and applying DO. At least then, you'd have the support of a US-based institution that actually WANTS to see you succeed as a physician, not just to take your money and run.
There are approximately a squillion threads on this site that attest to the Carib's shady reporting of residency match data and attrition rates. There are also plenty of blogs recounting the experiences of folks who went Carib with less than great results. (Here's just one: https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/counting-the-points/)
And yes, everyone knows someone (or knows someone who knows someone) who went to SGU (or Ross/Saba/etc.) who managed to match into a US residency in their field of choice. But the reality seems to be that these people are the exception, not the rule. It's easy to tell yourself that you'll be the exception, too, but it's more likely that you won't be. These schools exist to make money off of unsuspecting, desperate premeds with less than stellar stats.
You'd have a much better chance retaking the MCAT and applying DO. At least then, you'd have the support of a US-based institution that actually WANTS to see you succeed as a physician, not just to take your money and run.
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You are literally exactly the type of person the Caribbean loves to prey upon
a) You bombed the MCAT. Rather than study, put all you can into getting a score that can get into a DO school(with your GPA 500 will give you a realistic shot) you are looking for the easy way out. Hell, you haven't even taken the MCAT more than once.
b) You are already highlighting the classic "Oh this Caribbean school I'm interested in is different from all the other ones". "Trust me, THIS one is ok!" type of logic. The denial, gullibilty and inability to do research on where you want to go is already showing.
c) You trust SGU's sources which are based upon absolutely nothing and there is no process of verification or anything.
d) You rely on anecdotes from Caribbean doctors you know, not realizing how much different things are for Caribbean grads than it were 15-20 years ago. 15-20 years ago, if you wanted to go for for rural primary care, the Caribbean could get you there. Now? Times have changed radically with the direction of residencies, mergers etc.
e) You look at Caribbean match rates without realizing how laughably misleading they are. You don't realize over half the class drops out in the first two years/isn't allowed to sit for Step 1. All those people just wasted two years of their life and over 100k. You don't realize how much of an absolute disaster clinical rotations are for Caribbean schools. You don't realize that even after you account for all those are lost through attrition the first two years, that Caribbean schools still don't have everyone match. And finally you don't realize how misleading those match rates are and how many of those "matches" the caribbean loves to cite are simply dead end prelims where Caribbean grads will have to apply for residency again after 1 year and many won't find one.
This may sound harsh, but you are just exactly the type of person the Caribbean loves, will take 200k from, and gladly kick out after a year or two with zero hesitation. And you will come back here several years from now realizing what a horrendous mistake you made. Let's all hope it never comes to that and you never let the idea of a Caribbean school cross your mind again and simply focus on an MCAT retake.
a) You bombed the MCAT. Rather than study, put all you can into getting a score that can get into a DO school(with your GPA 500 will give you a realistic shot) you are looking for the easy way out. Hell, you haven't even taken the MCAT more than once.
b) You are already highlighting the classic "Oh this Caribbean school I'm interested in is different from all the other ones". "Trust me, THIS one is ok!" type of logic. The denial, gullibilty and inability to do research on where you want to go is already showing.
c) You trust SGU's sources which are based upon absolutely nothing and there is no process of verification or anything.
d) You rely on anecdotes from Caribbean doctors you know, not realizing how much different things are for Caribbean grads than it were 15-20 years ago. 15-20 years ago, if you wanted to go for for rural primary care, the Caribbean could get you there. Now? Times have changed radically with the direction of residencies, mergers etc.
e) You look at Caribbean match rates without realizing how laughably misleading they are. You don't realize over half the class drops out in the first two years/isn't allowed to sit for Step 1. All those people just wasted two years of their life and over 100k. You don't realize how much of an absolute disaster clinical rotations are for Caribbean schools. You don't realize that even after you account for all those are lost through attrition the first two years, that Caribbean schools still don't have everyone match. And finally you don't realize how misleading those match rates are and how many of those "matches" the caribbean loves to cite are simply dead end prelims where Caribbean grads will have to apply for residency again after 1 year and many won't find one.
This may sound harsh, but you are just exactly the type of person the Caribbean loves, will take 200k from, and gladly kick out after a year or two with zero hesitation. And you will come back here several years from now realizing what a horrendous mistake you made. Let's all hope it never comes to that and you never let the idea of a Caribbean school cross your mind again and simply focus on an MCAT retake.
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Seemingly, it was a lot easier to get into US residency as a Carib IMG many years ago (1970s-1990s) because the DO route remained skeptical and there were a lot of residency seats available (much more than the number of US MD graduates). With US DO forming a substantiated base and the upcoming merger/acquisition, the IMG advantage is rapidly disappearing.
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OP you have to remember that SGU is a for-profit entity first and foremost. Its concern for helping its students is secondary to its concern for making a profit. That's why so many weak students are accepted and subsequently dismissed; there is a clear conflict of interest and SGU is not a good backdoor into medicine (or an MD). Some students make it but it is a steep uphill battle. Seriously, the MCAT is not an insurmountable test (especially in comparison to an exam like step 1). I firmly believe that anybody is capable of a 30 if they work hard enough at it.
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deleted421268
Your G.P.A is good and if you worked so hard with getting all pre reqs done and everything while maintaining good GPA and with EC's why settle for SGU when you have potential to settle for Osteopathic school or even Allopathic possibly. I'd say maybe change up content review material and get that score up. There is no rush to take MCAT ASAP just take your time until you feel you are ready even if that may mean studying for MCAT after graduating and taking gap year in process or doing a masters or whatever than take MCAT. Good Luck!
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The thing is, SGU actually pays hospitals to save residency spots for its graduates and that's why they match for residencies. I'm not saying its my top choice. I did say that I was retaking the MCAT. Its just my last option if things don't work out.
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It doesn't seem at all shady to you that they have PAY to secure residency spots for their graduates? What kind of residencies do you think would even consider entering into this kind of arrangement?
I understand that you're just trying to keep your options open. I sincerely wish you the best and hope that it doesn't come to a point where you're seriously considering applying to any of these schools. All I can say is that if it were me and I were in that position, I'd take the GRE and apply to PA school in a heartbeat before I'd even think about the Caribbean.
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Anecdotal but I know a couple people who went to SGU from my highschool. One guy went, after 2 years was expelled becuase he wasnt scoring high enough on step 1, and now lives in his childhood bedroom at 25 while working full time to pay off 150k in loans that he can not discharge through bankruptcy. I also know a girl who had your exact situation (good everything, bad MCAT) who decided it would be better to go to SGU than gap year and retake. Pay attention to this part:
She killed step 1. Published multiple 1st author pubs in her desired field. Graduated with honors at the top of her class. Entered the match (for psych, one of the least competitive fields). DID NOT MATCH. She couldnt find a prelim spot via SOAP afterwards. Re-applied to match again next year, and again was unsuccessful. She is now living back with her parent, at 28, and is nearly $300,000 in debt. She works at Starbucks so she can at least have health insurance. Her boyfriend left her because he couldn't marrying someone with such an insane amount of debt and no way to pay it off. Her parents have delayed their retirement to help her pay off the debt.
Sorry for the rant, but please, picture yourself in that position. This is a person who was top of the class at that school. Its heartbreaking and should be god damned illegal.
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Some people need the harsh lessons in life... can't save them all.
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Now replace SGU with US MD and she'd be rocking in a top residency without concerns of debt.
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My question for you is if you can't overcome the MCAT and get a halfway decent score, how do you expect to, at SGU, blow step 1 out of the water (which is a lot harder, longer, and higher stakes)? Remember, if you do even okay on step 1 (~230 or so if you're looking for numbers, however arbitrary they may be) at SGU, you're looking at a very realistic chance of not matching ever.
And if you say "I'll study real hard and put the time in", why not just do that now for the MCAT and go US MD/DO and circumvent the problems that come with going to SGU etc?
I stand by my statement made in other threads: if you cannot get into a US DO school, you should not go to medical school.
And if you say "I'll study real hard and put the time in", why not just do that now for the MCAT and go US MD/DO and circumvent the problems that come with going to SGU etc?
I stand by my statement made in other threads: if you cannot get into a US DO school, you should not go to medical school.
please for the sake of your future don't buy into their for-profit propaganda garbage. your app is still salvageable enough to attend a non-profit MD/DO US med school if you study hard for the next MCAT and score 507+.
Wow! I didn't know there was such stigma against Caribbean medical schools. Thank you all for your replies and advice. I'm going to study my ass off, rewrite the MCAT and take it in April. I'll do my best to boost it to at least 500 so I can be in good shape for DO. If someone is asking why I'm setting my standards too low for the MCAT, its because English is my second language. I just moved to the US 4 years ago right before my freshman year of college, so I'm struggling with the comprehension a little bit, especially for CARS.
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Yeah SDN is a little extreme against Caribbean schools, and I do think most of it is fair. My opinion is that you need to go all-out for 2 cycles with MD+DO apps. If you don't get in and you still REALLY wanna be a doc, then consider an SGU type school (but never the low ranked carrib schools).
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deleted659912
Here's an article from a former SGU student: http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu You have a good GPA and great ECs so don't give up. 2k on a prep course will be nothing in the long run and you still have a lot of time to prepare for a May or June date especially since you're out of school.
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deleted718115
I don't believe this. This is an anecdote of something extremely wrong with her personality that failed her residency interviews. Otherwise it's an extreme case of IMG bias in the US.
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Also depends on how much money is in the checkbook
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You should see the SOAP. It's filled with Caribbean grads.
It's often the first filter on a PD's evaluation algorithm.
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You're in denial. Its not okay to continue to indoctrinate others to drag them down with your sinking ship, either.
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Could you clarify this a little? I'm not sure what SOAP or PD mean.
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SOAP is an amphipathic detergent used to clean things. It is also the process by which unmatched applicants attempt to secure a residency or internship spot. It's not a position you want to find yourself in.
PD is a program director for a particular residency program.
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Don't forget this once you guys get in med school somewhere. Shower once in a while. Nothing worse than sitting next to someone in class/lecture/etc. who has poor hygieneEdit: Directed generally not @WedgeDawg , clearly
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deleted718115
Maybe with that extreme anecdote you brought up, you should realize that the problem lies in something else (eg, her personality, PD bias) and not SGU in that case (because this person still managed to succeed vastly at SGU).
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This is awesome to hear! You have a great attitude and I bet you can improve your score a lot. It's worth it to hire a tutor/take a class if you're still struggling to bring your MCAT up. (And postpone the exam until you're averaging a solid score.)
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omg I am crying from laughing at this comment right now. genericpremed, you da real MVP.
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Yeah, that anecdote doesn't sound right either. I think that it's either a case of that person lying about how much she accomplished, or she did not apply to enough programs, or perhaps she has abysmal interpersonal skills. SGU is only a bad idea for poor students because of the high attrition rate. If you can succeed at SGU and rock Step 1 and have multiple publications, you really should be a lock for a psychiatry residency SOMEWHERE.
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I wandered over to the Carib forum and found this: http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/2015/09/yep-gave-eras-my-money-again-this-year.html
This person graduated from a Carib school in 2011 and as of THIS YEAR they are still trying to match after several unsuccessful attempts. They have mountains of debt and no way to pay it off.
It's easy to say that IF you graduate from the Carib and IF you crush Step 1, you'll be fine but those are huuuuuuge IFs. It's ridiculously sad. Every single one of these schools should be shut down.
This person graduated from a Carib school in 2011 and as of THIS YEAR they are still trying to match after several unsuccessful attempts. They have mountains of debt and no way to pay it off.
It's easy to say that IF you graduate from the Carib and IF you crush Step 1, you'll be fine but those are huuuuuuge IFs. It's ridiculously sad. Every single one of these schools should be shut down.
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