What are my chances with a Masters

[turtle36]

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anon

 

[battie]

What are your undergrad GPAs? Not every school accepts masters GPAs (at least they didn't when I was applying, but that was 10 years ago).

 

[battie]

They’re posted in the description. My masters GPA is 3.38

My bad, I assumed that included the masters as well.

Colorado State University, Cornell University, Long Island University, Oregon State University, Tufts University, University of Arizona, University of California, Davis, Western University

Your school list is unfortunately not super tailored to your stats. If you're going to apply this cycle (next month), you need to take out Davis for sure, and likely consider removing Cornell, Oregon, and Colorado.

 

[supershorty]

Trust me, Davis is a crap-shoot, let me dream lol. I love the school and area so much I almost feel obligated to try. Cornell I am considering removing. It is fantastic for exotic medicine, which is also highly appealing to me but the location is a huge negative. Colorado was listed as a holistic option and also recommended for being holistic. Is this no longer true??

How do I look otherwise

All of those schools are extremely competitive for out of state. To be blunt, you'll be donating your application fees to them, particularly to Davis. Colorado gets a massive amount of applications every year and is very competitive as a result. You are not currently a competitive applicant for those programs.

Your best options are going to be schools that emphasize last 45/last 30. That would include programs like Mich State, UMN, KSU, ISU(? I think I'm remembering that right).

 

[battie]

It does suck to have options limited in such a way that the environment itself is potentially terrible. For cases like this, I would recommend contacting the admissions department for these less desirable schools about contact info for the LGBTQ+ vet med organization chapter they have to speak directly to students at these schools and see what their experiences are

 

[supershorty]

If that is one of your concerns, UMN should be high on your list.

 

[JaynaAli]

I will not pretend to understand struggles associated with life as an LGBTQ person, but no matter how much you may wish to go somewhere, if your stats aren’t super competitive for those places, you may eventually face a choice of either not getting in/not being a vet or considering some of these less desirable locations. If you decide that you just absolutely won’t consider alternate locations even if it means not being a vet, then that’s absolutely your prerogative. But be realistic about your chances and apply smartly. I agree that to optimize your chances of acceptance, which is what you asked us about, I’d also recommend focusing on last 45 schools, since your GPA is below average and your Masters GPA wasn’t a whole lot better. If you don’t want to, it’s no skin off our noses. I certainly wouldn’t want someone living somewhere truly unsafe, but even 10+ years ago I had several openly out faculty and classmates in one of the reddest of red midwestern/southern states and my school had an lgbt student club.

 

[battie]

I hear you, but there’s little use in going to a school in a state like that if the state legislates against queer people. Just this year I’ve had to jump through hopes to stay on HIV preventatives for free due to conservatives here in Florida, I’m really trying to avoid situations like this moving forward. It sucks, but for safety reasons I’m not even considering them

Then for the schools you are considering, schedule admissions meetings to discuss what will best help your chances. Likewise, consider casting a wider net of schools if you can afford to do so.

I would still recommend not applying to Davis and removing Colorado, Oregon, and Cornell. If your options have to absolutely be limited, it's better to spend your money where you actually have a chance at. The AAVMC public data page is a good source of guidance from a stats perspective like applicants to seats ratios. It comes down to the math as much as the actual admissions processes.

 

[SkiOtter]

If that is one of your concerns, UMN should be high on your list.

Michigan State as well, imo. Whitmer will be here for 2 more years before the next election.

 

[SkiOtter]

The hyper fixation on undergrad GPA is such a stupid obsession for vet schools. I actually know what it’s like to work in the field, I know the realities of burnout, client abuse, and the chokehold exploitative corporations, like Mars, has on this field - which from the past 4 years of intern classes that have gone through my hospital, seems to be things that many students have no idea about.

Yes, but schools are looking for the candidates that they feel have the best chances of making it through the program and unfortunately, grades is how many of them do that because a doctorate program *is* a very, very rigorous program to complete.

 

[maxride14]

I suppose you could add Midwestern to your list, it's expensive but it does fit your other parameters!

 

[SkiOtter]

politics aside, I cannot do those winters. Like at all

Lol New York and Colorado winters are going to be FAR worse.

 

[turtle36]

Lol New York and Colorado winters are going to be FAR worse.

Sure they’re comparable in that sense but I have family near both Colorado state and Cornell so theres that plus both schools are fantastic for exotics. Michigan and Minnesota do not have positive aspects in that sense for me to offset freezing my butt off.

 

[wayne455338]

Have you ever asked for file reviews in your last several cycles? That might be helpful for you to improve your application. Speaking of the school list you have, I agree the statements above, some of your schools are GPA heavy, which might not be in your favor. For Oregon, even they are sort of holistic, they have the smallest class size among vet schools in US, which is about 90 people and 45 seats for OOS. One more thing I just want to mention that you seem to set up a lot of limits on yourself, which is good that you prioritize your preference. However, noting that there are only 34-35 AVMA accredited schools in US, you don’t really have many choices like other health professional schools. After reading all the comments, I can see your frustration, but you have to deal with it like everyone else. Negative vibes is always not good for the application process. If you really want to go into vet med, I would highly suggest to give some holistic schools a chance, even the places are not your preference. You just stay there for 3-4years depending on your school choices. Once you finish your education, you can go where ever you want. I would tell you that vet schools are busy and you spend most of your time studying. You don’t have time to party like undergrads. If you stay at home, classrooms or hospitals most of your school times, I would consider is more safe than just walking around on streets at night. And to be honest, I don’t care about my classmates identity or orientations. I love my classmates and know they will be my supportive colleague in the future. I would also suggest plan B for your career for the worst scenario. Wish you all the best and good luck on your application.

 

[Cowsrcool]

Hi! Chiming in that I know many happy vet students at schools in traditionally conservative state schools such as KSU and TOSU. It truly is a make the best of it for 4 years and then get out and work/live where u want. I know that’s a privileged mindset but it’s unfortunately often the case of that or not becoming a vet. I’d remove Oregon if u are oos it’s statistically like 1.2% chance acceptance

 

[pp9]

Stats:
Overall - 3.26
Last 45 - 3.60
Science - 3.26
Master's GPA - 3.38

*Sensitive info redacted at request of OP*

Illinois should absolutely be on your list. I would not use weather/geographic location as a reason to avoid schools I might have a better chance at getting into. Vet school is not the time to live in your ideal location - get in, get out, go live in your ideal location after. If you are on your fourth cycle with no acceptance, you really don't have the liberty of slashing schools off your list just because there isn't a beach. It's four years. You can do almost anything for four years.

ETA: Was thinking about this a little more during my commute this morning. At the risk of being creepy, I have a feeling I may have worked with you for a few years in FL and have told you all of these things already. If that sounds familiar, you know how to get a hold of me.

1. Please consider Illinois. Huge exotics/zoo staff with electives, a student-run wildlife clinic, etc. Yeah, Champaign/Urbana is a little farmy, but it's still a university town with great amenities. It's also roughly 1.5-2 hours away from Chicago, one of the best cities in the country. COST OF LIVING IS ALSO LOW. You may not appreciate this now, but you will when you are living off of loans.

2. I'm being brutally honest here: You need to come to terms with giving up your 'dream' to avoid a short four years of seasonal disdain for the weather. If you'd rather avoid temporary cold than become a vet, that's your choice and absolutely fine. You just need to accept that and consider moving on. Like @supershorty said, at some point you are just wasting money. This isn't on the schools - you are going for some of the most academically competitive schools without the stats to keep you in the ring. You have great experience, but that is often not enough.

Food for thought: Most of your competition is willing to pick up and move anywhere in the country for their dream. Hell, sometimes people move across the world to go to the one vet school that accepts them. It's great when we don't have to do that. It's also completely okay to draw the line somewhere...but moving great distances and to unglamorous areas of the country is not new to this field. Don't even get me started on post-grad training, and getting jobs in competitive fields. People end up wherever they can get hired, and move when the opportunity arises.

I'd be happy to talk about all of this further with you if you'd like. I really am sorry you haven't had your chance yet, but I think it is time to dig deep and determine how badly you want this. We can also set up a chat with @battie (and anyone else from U of I that I can't think of) and we can talk about Illinois and the surrounding area (again, if you are who I think you are, I told you to apply to Illinois 3 years ago and I still mean it 🙂).

Sure they’re comparable in that sense but I have family near both Colorado state and Cornell so theres that plus both schools are fantastic for exotics. Michigan and Minnesota do not have positive aspects in that sense for me to offset freezing my butt off.

Don't forget that you will have a lot of elective time to schedule externships at exotic pet clinics anywhere you want to make up for any gaps you feel you have in your curriculum. Most people still do extra exotics/zoo things, even if the curriculum includes those species.

 

[pp9]

Hi first of all thank you so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly and respectfully. I really do appreciate your expertise and care to write such a thoughtful comment, I never thought I would get that kind of input on here. I guess I should start by clarifying that my aversion to bad weather is not just me being a spoiled brat or extremely selective- the depressive episode that set me back in undergrad was in large-part due to living in a very cold climate that caused me to suffer from seasonal depression. The school I was attending before transferring was a very small school in a ski town in the lower Appalachia. There were a multitude of other issues going on but I have noticed that even still here in warm Florida I continue to go through these episodes in cooler months. I'm genuinely concerned about what my mental health would be like living in a place like the midwest, while being in an extremely stressful environment like vet school.

That said, I hear what you are saying and have not updated this post but did drastically revamp the schools I'm applying to. I even was approved for financial aid that may allow me to consider adding a few more schools as well. I will definitely take this comment into consideration and take a hard look at some of these other schools being discussed. That said I am honestly at a point in my life where I sit and look at the trajectory of this field and question if it is something I want to proceed with. This is not because I am not passionate about what I do, but instead highly concerned about what the future of veterinary medicine will look like given that a single corporation is monopolizing the field. I'm quite literally concerned that there will not be technicians, assistants, or any support staff in the future if the normalized exploitation of their labor is continued. This is why I got a Masters in Microbiology, it both serves as an aide to my application and also a backup plan and gateway to a new career field in microbiology.

Again thank you so much for your time. Also yes I believe based on your credentials you are correct in who I am lol

Yeah, I hear you about the corp stuff...still working through some of the stuff they put me through. That same corp also protected me in a few very bad situations that weren't even my fault. This is outside the scope of this thread, but I don't have an answer for the field becoming corp-based, I don't think anyone does. I will say human medicine has very much moved to corp-based practices, and it seems to work (as an outsider looking in). Corporations succeeding is multifactorial, and multiple major changes (starting with the cost of a DVM degree) would need to happen to limit their success. There are definite downsides to working for a corp, there are significant upsides to it as well. Admittedly, most of the upsides are more relevant to the doctors than the support staff, but the support staff are also not put in the same predicaments that a DVM is, and those are where corporate support comes into play.

Again, totally reasonable if you decide to no longer pursue a DVM. I think all of us are just trying to point out that you may not have your priorities in order to succeed in your application cycles. It's not like you're choosing your schools based on tuition/cost of living. You need to ask yourself "If *insert least favorite school here* accepted me today, would I go?" After 4 tries, you either want it badly enough to go wherever there is a seat for you, or you don't. Getting in is just the first step. After that, you have four years of life-consuming school that you need to get through, and if you don't truly want it...well, you may be wasting quite a bit more money.

You are on point regarding an improvement in overall mood/wellbeing alongside better weather...it isn't everything, though. Mental health struggles will rear their head in any high-stress situation regardless of geographic location. I actually was at my lowest low while in FL, and it lasted nearly the entire time I was there. No amount of watching dolphins, kayaking, beaching, existing in a warm climate, etc. was going to fix it.

 

[pp9]

Touching on the corporate aspect, corporations in general owning practices is not my issue. I think we can both agree from our previous experience that the way doctors and technicians are treated were drastically different. I find that doctors are well taken care of financially, their concerns are quickly addressed in most cases, and accommodations are commonly made for them. I applaud the fact that doctors are certainly treated with respect in that aspect. However, I also would be lying if I said that the way the support staff is treated is even moderately ethical. The pay is pathetically bad, it’s forcing a mass exodus of technicians. The anti-union intimidation by management prevents staff from having the ability to even discuss major issues in a production way. In fact most of these corporations often encourage extremely dangerous behavior, such as having unvaccinated staff handle strays and rabies-vector wildlife. M*rs specifically has a history of union busting behavior across multiple industries. My main concern is not my treatment as a doctor, but how the normalization of exploitation seems to be across the board. As a technician now there’s no way this could be a long-term career for myself given the current pay/benefits, so I doubt that in 5-10 years much will shift in this regard.

Most of what you've mentioned here is not unique to corporate medicine, or Mars specifically. Me saying that won't make you feel better about the field (sorry). There is a reason that the average life span of a vet tech is something like 5-7 years. Even some DVMs are leaving the field at this point, which is crazy if you consider the time and money invested.

Also, I think you are mostly citing the experiences of the specialists and comparing it to the experience of a tech. I can't imagine you saw how us ER docs were treated for those years and walked away from that thinking we were treated with any amount of respect or paid appropriately If I wasn't afraid of breaking my non-compete, I could have make 2-3x what I was at the ER down the road and not had to deal with specialists who would quite literally scream at us in front of a crowded treatment floor when they had to get up and do their job.

 

[Doctor Ham]

I'm not sure what the rest of your application looks like. But, as someone who sits on a "holistic" admissions committee.....it's not your GPA.

I suggest that you take a hard look at the tone of your application and what your letters of recommendation look like.

 

[Doctor Ham]

You have good experiences. Your GPA is not unreasonable. You have good letter writers - what are they saying? What is the overall package that you are presenting as an applicant?

It sounds like you have very specific geographic requirements, which is going to limit the schools you are willing to apply to. This automatically means that you are probably removing some of the schools that you would be a good candidate for. If those requirements are dealbreakers for you, then understand that it may be harder for you to gain admission, because your application may not be what those schools are looking for, for whatever reason.

I ask specifically about the tone of your application - what is the perspective you are conveying? Are you passionate about becoming a vet, or just tired of being a tech?