What are my chances with a solid M.S.??

[Mr. M.S.]

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First Post . . . 😎

I went to a very reputable undergrad school and graduated with a 3.3 in Chemistry- Took the MCAT twice so far and popped out a 21 and 26. Now I'm doing an M.S. in Anatomy and with 1.5 years done I have a solid 3.8. My question is how will med schools view the whole package and not just my MCAT? Also, I'm from NY and of Asian-Indian decent.

 

[junebuguf]

To state the obvious, you have three things going against you--your race, your gpa and your MCAT. If it were just one or even two, you'd be fine, but you seem to have managed a dubious trifecta.

As an Indian, you will really need at least a 30. Though its left unsaid, there's usually a quota for Indians and other Asian Americans...and there are more than enough Indian kids with 35's and 3.7's out there. If you were a URM, a 26 would be fine and though I would never go so far as to use the word 'unacceptable'...I will say you need to work really hard and bring that up to at least a 29-30.

A 3.3 is not atrocious, so you're in decent shape. As long as your BCMP is in line or higher, you're good. The year and a half of graduate work will definetely help, especially if it involves gross anatomy and/or other med school classes.

Theres nothing you can do about your race (I'm in the same boat: Indian-American with a low gpa...wayy lower than yours), and you're doing everything right with your grades, but you need to make sure you take the April MCAT and do better!!! (sorry, theres just no way around that)

 

[cammy1313]

Hey Mr. M.S.,
I am currently applying to med school and I have pretty much your same bio: 3.4 undergrad, 3.8 grad (went for a Masters also), 28 MCAT, worked in medical diagnostics for 2.5 years with a few abstracts out there. I'm also hispanic but not a recognized one so I'm pretty much white as far as med schools are concerned. Anyway, here's the good news: I've gotten 5 interviews so far and it's still early in the cycle. This means that they most definatley look at the whole package. I also applied relatively early (submitted AMCAS end of June) which I think is key when you're not the strongest of applicants. So don't lost hope, its definately doable! Of course, I have yet to see an acceptance but I'm crossing my fingers and toes!

 

[kalix]

To state the obvious, you have three things going against you--your race, your gpa and your MCAT. If it were just one or even two, you'd be fine, but you seem to have managed a dubious trifecta.

As an Indian, you will really need at least a 30. Though its left unsaid, there's usually a quota for Indians and other Asian Americans...and there are more than enough Indian kids with 35's and 3.7's out there. If you were a URM, a 26 would be fine and though I would never go so far as to use the word 'unacceptable'...I will say you need to work really hard and bring that up to at least a 29-30.

A 3.3 is not atrocious, so you're in decent shape. As long as your BCMP is in line or higher, you're good. The year and a half of graduate work will definetely help, especially if it involves gross anatomy and/or other med school classes.

Theres nothing you can do about your race (I'm in the same boat: Indian-American with a low gpa...wayy lower than yours), and you're doing everything right with your grades, but you need to make sure you take the April MCAT and do better!!! (sorry, theres just no way around that)

Personally, I completely disagree with this entire evaluation 👎

As a matter of fact, you may have gotten in the first time, had you applied early, and to a select few schools.

And with the Masters level work you're doing, at a very proficient level at that, I think you're money. Now what do any of us know, we aren't adcomms...however, you are quite obviously not in a BAD situation, you're an average to above average candidate(and, that's solely based on your numbers...)

As far as race, in my opinion, the only demograph that truly are effected by this aspect are blacks, hispanics, native americans, etc... And for them, they are positively effected, because they can get into medical school with greater ease than a caucasian, asian, etc.

So that's how the system works in my opinion, but keep working hard to doing so well in those Masters level classes, and go for it!! 👍

 

[Mr. M.S.]

Junebuguf,
i completely understand your view of the situation because being of the same decent you can relate... however I have to agree with cammy and kalix in that the Masters work has to count for something. The classes are more in depth than the medical curriculum offered at the institution i am at (with work in embryo, histo, gross, neuro, and biochem.)

With that being said, I think i did two things wrong in the App process that could hurt my chances- i'm just not sure. 1) applied to a ton of schools, which i think makes me look desperate. 2) never considered D.O. or carribean schools. I may be looking at a retake for the MCAT if and only if allopathic does not pan out...Also, I have to find something to do for a "glide year" that's interesting and something besides all the research, volunteering and grad school i have done in the past.

Just hope the April test goes my way---

Of course... good luck everyone in what they choose to do.

 

[junebuguf]

I never said that the MS wont count for anything...I'm planning on something of the sort to help me out when I apply next year. I was solely commenting on your MCAT score, which generally needs to be higher than the avg. for Indian applicants. Because you have a low MCAT *and* you have a lower gpa *and* you're Indian, I think you should prepare for the April MCAT and try to pull that number up. You always try to fix the weakest link, if it can be fixed. You cant go back and change your undergrad grades and you cant change your ethnicity...but you *can* do something about the MCAT. Thats what I'm getting at.

It sounds like youve done some kind of SMP program, which should definetely help you out. Incidentally, when was your app complete and have you received any interview invites yet?

 

[Mr. M.S.]

Yeah.. i def need to give that test one more shot because i will always regret it if i don't. I have to know... what do u think about the caribbean schools like St George and others??

My app was complete the day my MCAT came back about 2 weeks ago and i have not received any interviews just yet... just a big waiting game at this point.

also, do u think it looked bad to apply to like 20+ schools as i did?

 

[junebuguf]

It cant 'look bad' unless other schools know how many places you've applied to, which, since I've yet to submit an AMCAS, I would not know...though I find it hard to believe that AAMC would release such info.

I would not consider the Caribbean until you've gone through an entire applicantion cycle. You've got good grades (especially your MS work), your weak link is only your MCAT, which you can definetely improve on. Have you truly prepared yourself well? Have you taken a prep course? Have you taken enough practice tests? Are you scoring low across the board or just one section? There are many ways to fix MCAT woes. You're in comparatively good shape, be greatful. There are quite a few of problems with the Caribbean--its very, very expensive (I added it up once and it came out to like $250k), some states hassle you about licensing (it may be hard to impossible to get a license in like TX, I believe, among others), you have almost no chance at a really competitive residency (forget about derm, plastics and optho, radiology yeah probably, but it wont be easy), and lastly, the stigma associated with having gone abroad (this is very personal and varies, maybe not so important for you?)


I thought your app had probably just been complete. Wait for a few weeks, see how many secondary/interview invites you get, and reevaluate in Jan-Feb.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Since when does Indian have anything to do with it? If you arent a URM, you are pretty much in the pile with everyone else.


I'm Indian and never once have I heard, welp, if you want to get in, you need to get an MCAT score higher then the average for Indians.


Adrian

 

[junebuguf]

You dont need an MCAT higher than the average for Indians, just higher than the average posted for the school. I certainly cant say its enforced at all schools, but for at least the 4 schools whose admissions processes I've become familiar with it is true. For instance, an upper tier school in the south admits around 112 kids in its incoming class and has admitted exactly 7 Indian kids in each of their last 4 classes--not 6, not 8. Schools do keep some track of their ethnic makeup, and who can blame them. I wouldnt want to be surrounded by no one but Indians at school.

All non-URM ethnicities are not created equal. A top tier school could fill its class with nothing but Indians and other Asians and have astronomical numbers, simply because the number of applicants who apply and would matriculate, given the chance, exceeds the number of available seats. For that matter, the same could be said of Whites. So, if as you say, 'we're all in the same pile' and it doesnt matter what box you check off, then there should be far Indian kids at the aforementioned school than just 7. They cap it at an arbitrary number, and *within* your ethnic bracket you compete solely on the basis of merit.

Just like schools keep quotas on the number of URMs they enroll, they also keep informal tabs on the number of ORMs.

 

[wannabedoc34]

You dont need an MCAT higher than the average for Indians, just higher than the average posted for the school. I certainly cant say its enforced at all schools, but for at least the 4 schools whose admissions processes I've become familiar with it is true. For instance, an upper tier school in the south admits around 112 kids in its incoming class and has admitted exactly 7 Indian kids in each of their last 4 classes--not 6, not 8. Schools do keep some track of their ethnic makeup, and who can blame them. I wouldnt want to be surrounded by no one but Indians at school.

All non-URM ethnicities are not created equal. A top tier school could fill its class with nothing but Indians and other Asians and have astronomical numbers, simply because the number of applicants who apply and would matriculate, given the chance, exceeds the number of available seats. For that matter, the same could be said of Whites. So, if as you say, 'we're all in the same pile' and it doesnt matter what box you check off, then there should be far Indian kids at the aforementioned school than just 7. They cap it at an arbitrary number, and *within* your ethnic bracket you compete solely on the basis of merit.

Just like schools keep quotas on the number of URMs they enroll, they also keep informal tabs on the number of ORMs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had this quota system. However, I disagree when you said "who can blame them." I think it's wrong when they 'cut' you mainly on race even though you may be highly qualified. Race/color should be removed from the system or else we will never look past the color! (Short-term reprecussions may be in place but in the long-term, we can cross these lines and have a color-blind society FOR ONCE)

 

[HofstraSchmuck]

If you really believe it is a fact that Asian-Indians are required to obtain more than stellar components for your application, do not check the little box asking about ethnicity!!! If you are venting frustration because there are Asian-Indians in the application pool with stronger numbers, then you have some psychological issues to deal with. In the end, each medical student is a major investment that the school makes, they care about making sure each respective member of their class has what it takes to excel in medical school and graduate!! A 3.5/30 score is going to be good enough for allopathic schools. It represents a standard deviation from the mean MCAT score and a solid undergraduate history.

 

[tupac_don]

First Post . . . 😎

I went to a very reputable undergrad school and graduated with a 3.3 in Chemistry- Took the MCAT twice so far and popped out a 21 and 26. Now I'm doing an M.S. in Anatomy and with 1.5 years done I have a solid 3.8. My question is how will med schools view the whole package and not just my MCAT? Also, I'm from NY and of Asian-Indian decent.

Okay, I will break it down to you like this.

Good things
-Anatomy MS
-3.8 GPA

Bad things
-poor MCAT, even the 26 one
-poor undergrad GPA
-thus far only did 1/2 a year of your masters

Oh yea the fact that you are Asian-Indian, won't affect you either way. Also it will depend where you applying, I would seriously broaden where I applied if I were you, not just NY area.

Although your GPA is very good in MS, it's only 1/2 year, you should let this play out and get a masters out of it. If your GPA is still high, then you are in business. Two, you probably don't wanna hear this, but to have any real chances at a descent MD school, you must repeat your MCAT, absolutely MUST. As well not all MD schools will equally weigh your masters degree. Some might only look at your MS work, others will avg it out with undergrad work. But really if you can make a 30 in MCAT or more plus keep up that 3.8, you are golden. You will get in somewhere for sure.

 

[Mutt]

Hey Mr. M.S.,
I am currently applying to med school and I have pretty much your same bio: 3.4 undergrad, 3.8 grad (went for a Masters also), 28 MCAT, worked in medical diagnostics for 2.5 years with a few abstracts out there. I'm also hispanic but not a recognized one so I'm pretty much white as far as med schools are concerned. Anyway, here's the good news: I've gotten 5 interviews so far and it's still early in the cycle. This means that they most definatley look at the whole package. I also applied relatively early (submitted AMCAS end of June) which I think is key when you're not the strongest of applicants. So don't lost hope, its definately doable! Of course, I have yet to see an acceptance but I'm crossing my fingers and toes!

Hey Cammy,

Can you elaborate more on what you mean "by being hispanic but not recognized as one"?

I think I may be in the same boat....

Thanks.

 

[Mutt]

Hey Mr. M.S.,
I am currently applying to med school and I have pretty much your same bio: 3.4 undergrad, 3.8 grad (went for a Masters also), 28 MCAT, worked in medical diagnostics for 2.5 years with a few abstracts out there. I'm also hispanic but not a recognized one so I'm pretty much white as far as med schools are concerned. Anyway, here's the good news: I've gotten 5 interviews so far and it's still early in the cycle. This means that they most definatley look at the whole package. I also applied relatively early (submitted AMCAS end of June) which I think is key when you're not the strongest of applicants. So don't lost hope, its definately doable! Of course, I have yet to see an acceptance but I'm crossing my fingers and toes!

Hey Cammy,

Can you elaborate more on what you mean "by being hispanic but not recognized as one"?

I think I may be in the same boat....

Thanks.

 

[X.O.]

First Post . . . 😎

I went to a very reputable undergrad school and graduated with a 3.3 in Chemistry- Took the MCAT twice so far and popped out a 21 and 26. Now I'm doing an M.S. in Anatomy and with 1.5 years done I have a solid 3.8. My question is how will med schools view the whole package and not just my MCAT? Also, I'm from NY and of Asian-Indian decent.

Define reputable undergrad.

You have to keep in mind that all the stuff you did in the MS is going to go to a seperate grad GPA calculation in AMCAS so having a low BCMP and MCAT is two high hurdles thats extremely tough for anyone to overcome. I did the MS and did well but beating the snot out of the MCAT won me the most goodwill than anything I did in grad school.

 

[wannabedoc34]

If you really believe it is a fact that Asian-Indians are required to obtain more than stellar components for your application, do not check the little box asking about ethnicity!!! If you are venting frustration because there are Asian-Indians in the application pool with stronger numbers, then you have some psychological issues to deal with. In the end, each medical student is a major investment that the school makes, they care about making sure each respective member of their class has what it takes to excel in medical school and graduate!! A 3.5/30 score is going to be good enough for allopathic schools. It represents a standard deviation from the mean MCAT score and a solid undergraduate history.

I dont believe that "Asian-Indians are require to obtain more than stellar components for your application". However, I do believe that we as a society need to get rid of the whole 'race card' cuz it does get a little sticky when applying (basically doing anything - jobs, hooking up, etc). I think the list of check boxes should be erased completely or else we will always be race conscious and someone will always get the short end of the stick. Btw, I'm not frustrated with indians or asians or anyone else or asian-indians having strong numbers in the pool. I dont hate anyone. Relax! You need to understand that we dont live in a perfect system but we can improve it. So, my point was that I dont think a quota system shouldn't exists (if it does that is).

Oh by the way, guess what ethnicity I am? (hint: A---- I------).

 

[MrTee]

Yeah.. i def need to give that test one more shot because i will always regret it if i don't. I have to know... what do u think about the caribbean schools like St George and others??

My app was complete the day my MCAT came back about 2 weeks ago and i have not received any interviews just yet... just a big waiting game at this point.

also, do u think it looked bad to apply to like 20+ schools as i did?

If applying to 20+ schools looks bad, then I'm in serious trouble, cuz I applied to 30. Seriously, applying to 20 won't hurt you at all. Adcoms know what applicants with low numbers have to do. Just to echo what everyone says, a 30 or better on your mcat is pretty much what you'll have to do to have a good shot at an acceptance at an allopathic school (in addition to maintaining your 3.8 from here on out).

 

[skicu]

Schools don't know how many other schools you've applied to unless you tell them. They don't get that info from AMCAS. I was in a similar situation to you. I have an MS with a great GPA and a 3.3 undergrad and I was accepted last year by multiple schools. So go for it!!

 

[VPDcurt]

I was in a similar situation but I think you need to retake the MCAT. A 26 just doesn't really help anyone's cause. Especially with you, you need an MCAT that will justify all of the work you have done and a 26 simply does not do that. You need to get a 30+ IMHO. I think that you will do fine on the MCAT after having dealt with the amount of material that one must master in grad school. It is so much harder than undergrad and you will deservingly do much better on your next MCAT. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[stoleyerscrubz]

3.3 is below the average for students accepted to allopathic school so I'm not sure if I would dwell on that too much based on your graduate GPA. Forget about the whole race things since you can't probably change that. Do well when retaking the MCAT and you would be a good candidate for DO schools and it is possible to get accepted to allopathic schools as well.