MD & DO What are my chances?

[DualDocDreamer]

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32 MCAT (12, 10, 10), cGPA 3.438, sGPA 3.965, IA for academic probation/dismissal my sophomore year (hence the large difference b/t cGPA & sGPA...also, cGPA for the last 120 hrs is 3.98, so large upward trend), BS Biology w/ chem minor, summa cum laude, 4 mo research experience with synthetic chem group in nano med lab, science club 2 yrs, community service club 1 yr, 2 papers of distinction, National academic honor society, national science and math honor society, genetics lab TA 1yr, lab assistant 1 yr, very limited shadowing (~20hrs)... obviously I need to add more shadowing/volunteering hours...

ps I am a 27 year old male and I know I will have to explain the IA.

Anyway, what are my chances?

Thanks!

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Hopefully the silence on this thread isn't the answer...

 

[gyngyn]

Hopefully the silence on this thread isn't the answer...

Much depends on the nature of the IA. Very few are dismissed.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Much depends on the nature of the IA. Very few are dismissed.

Without going into too many details on a public forum, it basically boils down to immaturity/lack of direction. Unfortunately, when I first went to college I had no drive or direction of interest. I was simply going to college because that was what I was "supposed" to do after high school. I had done well in high school, but I attended a very poor rural high school that provided little academic support or guidance, so I really had no idea what options were out there and medical school wasn't even a possibility on my radar. My freshman year was a bit of culture shock to say the least. I was raised in a fairly strict religious household, so when I was finally on my own in a city with a large university I became a little too focused on partying and letting loose rather than my studies...like I said, immaturity played a large role. My freshman year I pulled ~3.0. My sophomore year was where everything went downhill. I spent part of the summer on the coast, fell in love and started to question why I was in school. Over the next year my grades suffered; the first semester I ended with a 2.0 and was put on academic probation. During the second semester that year I frequently missed class, decided school wasn't right for me and decided to stop going so I could work full time. Instead of dropping out, I simply stopped going and thus failed my classes, resulting in academic dismissal. Obviously if I could go back I would have done things differently, but since that is impossible I just have to learn from my mistakes and move on. After being dismissed, I worked full time for a year in sales. After that year I decided to take some night classes towards a business degree since I was working in sales. I still wasn't particularly passionate about what I was studying, but I wanted to give it my all the second time around. While studying business, I had to take a bio course to fulfill a degree requirement. I was somewhat dreading the course, but to my surprise I discovered I LOVED it. I enjoyed it so much in fact that I decided to enroll in bio 2 just as an elective. Seeing as I excelled in the the courses and enjoyed them so much, I changed my major to bio and found my true passion. I probably would have discovered this in hs, but as I said my poor rural school was garbage. In fact, my bio teacher in hs was a baptist preacher who taught very little biology, and would often end what little teaching he did with "at least that's what some people think..." Anyway, I finally discovered my passion and felt a true desire to learn and master the sciences. Over the course of the next few years I worked extremely hard, working as a lab tech while taking very heavy course loads to graduate as soon as I could. Since I had taken most elective courses already my schedule was filled with heavy science and math courses for the duration of my degree. I was able to graduate with honors from my new school with a 3.98 over ~120 credits, and even pull my cGPA up to 3.44 with ~140ish credits. I know I made many mistakes, but can one year of poor judgement really outweigh all I have done to this point? Does the fact that I pulled a 3.98 sGPA and pulled myself up from such a poor start count for nothing? I mean the last semester of school I took 18 hrs consisting of biochem, Orgo 2, genetics and senior seminar all with labs while being a genetics lab TA and working as a lab assistant. Shouldn't this all show that I have the drive, passion and work ethic to succeed in med school and as a physician? Has all my hard work simply been in vain?

 

[DualDocDreamer]

I would also like to add that my MCAT score could likely be improved. I took 6 AAMC pe's and got 5 36's and a 37, so I think I could improve from my 32 if that would help overcome the obstacles outlined above. I decided not to retake since 32 is a decent score, and I didn't want to risk getting a similar score unless a retake was absolutely necessary. Everyone I spoke with advised against a retake as well but an adcom's input in light of my particular situation would be welcomed with great appreciation!

 

[Admissions to Medicine]

Hello,

One thing that I really liked about what you presented here was the fact that you did not make excuses for your actions, you simply stated what you did. Many adcoms will admire this honesty. Now to my opinion and again this is only MY OPINION on your situation. The first glaring negative aspect I see with your profile is your lack of exposure to the medical world. Four months of research and only 20 hours of shadowing with your profile will cause a major red flag. This is primarily because after reviewing your profile, many adcoms will first ask, why did you not formally withdraw from classes? Why didn't you just switch your major? Why didn't you take exploratory courses. This is a serious issue because med schools cannot afford to have a student just walk away. These questions will be valid because what will happen if once you start med school, you decide that you just do not like it? Will you do the same thing? This is why, for your profile, you will need to beef up your experiences to allay these concerns that adcoms are sure to have. Can you overcome the fact that you were dismissed during your sophomore year? Absolutely! However, you will have to work harder than most to get that second chance. A solid year or so of solid- full time exposure- to the medical and research world will be beneficial, just be prepared for some tough questions.- Admissionstomedicine

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Hello,

One thing that I really liked about what you presented here was the fact that you did not make excuses for your actions, you simply stated what you did. Many adcoms will admire this honesty. Now to my opinion and again this is only MY OPINION on your situation. The first glaring negative aspect I see with your profile is your lack of exposure to the medical world. Four months of research and only 20 hours of shadowing with your profile will cause a major red flag. This is primarily because after reviewing your profile, many adcoms will first ask, why did you not formally withdraw from classes? Why didn't you just switch your major? Why didn't you take exploratory courses. This is a serious issue because med schools cannot afford to have a student just walk away. These questions will be valid because what will happen if once you start med school, you decide that you just do not like it? Will you do the same thing? This is why, for your profile, you will need to beef up your experiences to allay these concerns that adcoms are sure to have. Can you overcome the fact that you were dismissed during your sophomore year? Absolutely! However, you will have to work harder than most to get that second chance. A solid year or so of solid- full time exposure- to the medical and research world will be beneficial, just be prepared for some tough questions.- Admissionstomedicine

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide helpful feedback! I agree that my lack of research/clinical experience are major obstacles, and I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to beef this part up during my current time post-graduation. The real problem I am running into is that I have to work to live. I have been applying to tons of research positions since graduating in 2012 (lab tech jobs mostly) but I haven't even been extended interviews due to my lack of experience. Because of this I have been working for a mortgage company, which besides being soul crushing greatly interferes with my ability to shadow. I have had 2 docs offer to let me shadow, but it is in their office which keeps normal business hours, which I can't make due to my work. As far as volunteering, I haven't been able to get in at the university hospital in my city since there are many premeds fighting over the spots, but am currently trying to set something up on weekends with a small private hospital about 35 miles away. Do you think it would be advisable to hold off on applying this cycle to try to land a research job and add more volunteering/shadowing if I can figure out an option that I can work into my schedule? I know this is stuff most applicants do during UG, but I was so busy taking science heavy course loads while working and trying to keep a 4.0 to overcome my early failures that I couldn't really find the time to do many ECs until now. Again, thanks for takng the time to help, it is GREATLY appreciated!

 

[Admissions to Medicine]

Yes, I think you should really focus on gaining more hands on exposure this year and then apply for the next cycle. This is especially true if you have not been participating in these activities during the past year. You will compete not only with undergrads, but also grads who have 2 years + of 60 hour a week medical related activities. You will have to find a way to beef up these stats to really have a fair shot of admissions to a MD program. -Admissionstomedicine

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Any thoughts about my chances of overcoming the IA now that you know the details @gyngyn ?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

If you don't want to spend one more year beefing up you ECs, you should be ok for DO IMO.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

If you don't want to spend one more year beefing up you ECs, you should be ok for DO IMO.

I'm very open to the DO route. The only reason I even hesitate is because I would like to possibly do translational research as a component of my career, which I have been led to believe is more difficult to achieve with a DO than with an MD. Maybe I'm just misinformed?

 

[gyngyn]

Any thoughts about my chances of overcoming the IA now that you know the details @gyngyn ?

If the dismissal was entirely due to poor academic performance, and the reasons for that weak performance have been clearly and profoundly reversed, then you should still have the interview invitations associated with your stats and accomplishments.

 

[Goro]

One of the Deans at the Touros is a DO and has a ton of such publications. So yes, you're misinformed.

Concur with my learned colleague; there are a number of MD schools that value reinvention.

I'm very open to the DO route. The only reason I even hesitate is because I would like to possibly do translational research as a component of my career, which I have been led to believe is more difficult to achieve with a DO than with an MD. Maybe I'm just misinformed?

 

[DualDocDreamer]

One of the Deans at the Touros is a DO and has a ton of such publications. So yes, you're misinformed.

Concur with my learned colleague; there are a number of MD schools that value reinvention.

That is great info, thanks for sharing! I hope I didn't offend with my comment, I know DO's can and do pursue research, I was just under the impression it was more difficult, due to most DO schools not being associated with research heavy universities and thus having more difficulty securing funding. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought DO's couldn't pursue research. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find much outside info on the topic, so most of what I was seeing was info from this forum which is clearly full of misinformed premeds that get hung up on the letters of the degree. I have nothing but the highest respect for the DO degree; in fact my pcp is a DO and several of my top notch peers are currently in DO programs. Also, thank you very much for sharing your view on my chances in light of my somewhat unusual circumstances. The time you took to respond has helped ease some of the anxiety I have been feeling for quite some time. Your input is highly valued and greatly appreciated!

If the dismissal was entirely due to poor academic performance, and the reasons for that weak performance have been clearly and profoundly reversed, then you should still have the interview invitations associated with your stats and accomplishments.

It was, so thanks for putting my mind at ease! I appreciate you taking the time to share your much valued opinion!

 

[mellyrocker]

3.98 cgpa for the last 120 credits? AmAzInG. Truly! Just work on your EC's. Tremendous pull up. I believe that you will at least score INTERVIEWS!!! Like Woooaa!

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm very open to the DO route. The only reason I even hesitate is because I would like to possibly do translational research as a component of my career, which I have been led to believe is more difficult to achieve with a DO than with an MD. Maybe I'm just misinformed?

I understand where you're coming from. The MD schools have better research possibilities as a student. This means that you have more possibilities of gaining grants as you have more pedigree. If your goal is academic medicine, your best bet is the MD route. If you're thinking about translational research as a part-time thing, forget it. Nobody is going to give you a grant. All that said you can still do all of that as a DO, but you usually have to be close to a big name MD such as Touro w/UCSF and Berkeley and do research as a collaborator there. It's a harder path, but it's definitely possible as a DO with a lot of persistence.