What are my chances?

[Jenna2004]

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Hey guys. My name is Jenna and I'm applying to medical school for the entering class of 2006. I really want to be a doctor, but I'm kind of concerned about my chances of getting in. I'll be graduating this spring and my gpa is kind of low and I don't think it's going to go up too much this semester. I have a 2.95 gpa overall and a 2.79 science gpa, and I'm done with all my science classes 🙁 . I also took the MCAT twice already. Last spring I got a 21M (6 bio, 7 phys, 8 verb), and this was after studying from October until April for a few hours every week and even more starting in January. So I thought I did well on it and was very shocked when I got my scores back. I studied a lot more over the summer for the August MCAT and was very disappointed when I got my scores back, which was a 23O(7 bio, 7 phys, 9 verb) 🙁 . While I improved, it wasn't by too much. I'm a communications major, and I never really had to take so many science classes, so I think that's what contributed to my low scores. Now I don't know what to do. From looking at the average acceptance scores, it looks like I don't have too much of a chance, since they are all higher than mine. Some people are telling me that they look at the whole applicant though, and I have some extra curricular activities, such as 50 hours of volunteering in the pediatric floor of the hospital reading to the kids, I'm very active in my sorority, and I like to run (I belong to a runnign club). I definitely thik that I study enough, since I study the same amount of time as most of my friends and sisters, but I wasn't able to do as well as I wanted to. I got a C- in organic chemistry 1 and a D- in organic chemistry 2, and the only reason I got the D- is because I was about to fail and I spent almost 2 hours in my professor's office crying and he felt bad for me and passed me. I just can't really understand that stuff and basically guessed on those quetions on the MCAT. The rest of my science grades are around B- so organic is what I'm worried about most holding me back. So what should I do? I really want to be a doctor and really want to get into medical school.

 

[Babooshka]

Jenna, things are not looking so good for you. If you want an honest opinion, I don't think you have a chance at all. But if you really want to be a doctor, your current academic statistics shouldn't inhibit you from drastically revamping your credentials and applying later on. I hope you fare well.

 

[IndyZX]

caribbean.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

caribbean.

It's an idea, but unfortunately, you probably don't have a shot at an accreddited Carribean school (schools from which a degree allows one to practice in California). If you really want to be a doctor, I suggest doing a post-bacc program, and working on that MCAT score. Do well in your post-bacc program (>3.5gpa) and improve the MCAT (>25) and I think you have a real shot at a med school, albeit one on the Islands or a lower-tier DO school. Best of luck to you 👍

 

[IndyZX]

It's an idea, but unfortunately, you probably don't have a shot at an accreddited Carribean school (schools from which a degree allows one to practice in California). If you really want to be a doctor, I suggest doing a post-bacc program, and working on that MCAT score. Do well in your post-bacc program (>3.5gpa) and improve the MCAT (>25) and I think you have a real shot at a med school, albeit one on the Islands or a lower-tier DO school. Best of luck to you 👍

really? what are those carribean school's stats? i thought it was just about the money?

 

[Jenna2004]

It's an idea, but unfortunately, you probably don't have a shot at an accreddited Carribean school (schools from which a degree allows one to practice in California). If you really want to be a doctor, I suggest doing a post-bacc program, and working on that MCAT score. Do well in your post-bacc program (>3.5gpa) and improve the MCAT (>25) and I think you have a real shot at a med school, albeit one on the Islands or a lower-tier DO school. Best of luck to you 👍

I looked into these post-bacc programs and they take too much time. I'm a senior and really wanted to apply for the entering class of 2005, but I decided to wait so I'll have a year off.

 

[Jenna2004]

really? what are those carribean school's stats? i thought it was just about the money?

I would go to a Caribbean school but I don't want to move so far from New York.

 

[calstudent]

Jenna, things are not looking so good for you. If you want an honest opinion, I don't think you have a chance at all. But if you really want to be a doctor, your current academic statistics shouldn't inhibit you from drastically revamping your credentials and applying later on. I hope you fare well.

many people struggle; you must go to a post-bacc program or a masters and show that you can do well over there. also, do you have specific activities that really gear you up for medicine?

 

[NubianPrincess]

If you are serious and positive that you want to get in, do what you need to do in order to show schools that you can handle the academic challenges medical school would present. I have not done a postbacc, but I hear that they are good ways to improve your application if you do really well in them.

 

[derf]

It's an idea, but unfortunately, you probably don't have a shot at an accreddited Carribean school (schools from which a degree allows one to practice in California). If you really want to be a doctor, I suggest doing a post-bacc program, and working on that MCAT score. Do well in your post-bacc program (>3.5gpa) and improve the MCAT (>25) and I think you have a real shot at a med school, albeit one on the Islands or a lower-tier DO school. Best of luck to you 👍

yeah, if you get your PS and BS up one or two points only and do a post-bacc, you'll have a decent shot on some med in the U.S. Don't give up hope and best of luck to you.

 

[blz]

Hey guys. My name is Jenna

Go into p0rn.

 

[Kevbot]

Here's the bad news: Those stats aren't competetive at all Jenna, and your volunteer work shows a lot of heart, but you don't have clinical experience. Also, you may get asked why you chose communications as a major if you were interested in the health field.

The good news! --is that there are other alternatives if you really genuinely do like what a doctor does and how he lives his/her life. There is a degree called Physicians Assistant (PA). It's a three year degree with no residency and plenty of oppurtunity for specialization. You would have to take the GRE's I believe. Although you wouldnt have letters after your name, it would be a small price to pay for being able to see patients and help make a difference in thier lives - if that's your motivation to go into medicine.

 

[Jenna2004]

Here's the bad news: Those stats aren't competetive at all Jenna, and your volunteer work shows a lot of heart, but you don't have clinical experience. Also, you may get asked why you chose communications as a major if you were interested in the health field.

The good news! --is that there are other alternatives if you really genuinely do like what a doctor does and how he lives his/her life. There is a degree called Physicians Assistant (PA). It's a three year degree with no residency and plenty of oppurtunity for specialization. You would have to take the GRE's I believe. Although you wouldnt have letters after your name, it would be a small price to pay for being able to see patients and help make a difference in thier lives - if that's your motivation to go into medicine.

I chose communications because I liked my intro communications class better than my intro science classes during freshman year.

PA looks like a good firld and I know a girl who's going to start PA school next year, but from what I understand the average salary for a PA is significantly lower than for a doctor. Besides, I'm interested in plastic surgery and from what I heard there aren;t many PAs in the field.

 

[CarleneM]

Hi,
I second the people suggesting you do a post-bacc and retake the MCAT if you really want to be an m.d. or d.o. The thing is, a post-bacc takes two years instead of one. In the grand scheme of things, another year is not going to set you back in your medical career and could end up being very helpful for you. If you are studying as hard as you say you are, it seems perhaps your study strategies could use some tweaking and I would suggest going to your schools study help center or hiring a tutor to help you improve your methods.

also, what is it about being a doctor that appeals to you? there are many other healthcare professional careers that may be able to satisfy you just as much if not more- physical therapy, nursing, hospital techs, paramedics,social work, pharmacy, etc. Or as a communications major, perhaps healthcare administration would be a good use of your skills. medical school isn't going to be any easier than those science classes you didn't care for so you may want to seriously look into other less painful options.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do,
Carlene

 

[liverotcod]

there are other alternatives if you really genuinely do like what a doctor does and how he lives his/her life. There is a degree called Physicians Assistant (PA).

Another avenue, particularly if you are interested in family practice, is nurse practitioner. A longer training, but (like PAs) in extremely high demand and they get a lot of respect from docs and nurses alike.

Note: I don't mean to be dismissive of your chances at med school. But, given your performance to this point, I think you might be awfully unhappy in med school. It's the particular combination of GPA and MCAT (x2) that worry me. They don't fit the profile of people (here, at least) who have met a success in the post-bacc route.

 

[Peace&Health]

Hey guys. My name is Jenna and I'm applying to medical school for the entering class of 2006. I really want to be a doctor, but I'm kind of concerned about my chances of getting in. I'll be graduating this spring and my gpa is kind of low and I don't think it's going to go up too much this semester. I have a 2.95 gpa overall and a 2.79 science gpa, and I'm done with all my science classes 🙁 . I also took the MCAT twice already. Last spring I got a 21M (6 bio, 7 phys, 8 verb), and this was after studying from October until April for a few hours every week and even more starting in January. So I thought I did well on it and was very shocked when I got my scores back. I studied a lot more over the summer for the August MCAT and was very disappointed when I got my scores back, which was a 23O(7 bio, 7 phys, 9 verb) 🙁 . While I improved, it wasn't by too much. I'm a communications major, and I never really had to take so many science classes, so I think that's what contributed to my low scores. Now I don't know what to do. From looking at the average acceptance scores, it looks like I don't have too much of a chance, since they are all higher than mine. Some people are telling me that they look at the whole applicant though, and I have some extra curricular activities, such as 50 hours of volunteering in the pediatric floor of the hospital reading to the kids, I'm very active in my sorority, and I like to run (I belong to a runnign club). I definitely thik that I study enough, since I study the same amount of time as most of my friends and sisters, but I wasn't able to do as well as I wanted to. I got a C- in organic chemistry 1 and a D- in organic chemistry 2, and the only reason I got the D- is because I was about to fail and I spent almost 2 hours in my professor's office crying and he felt bad for me and passed me. I just can't really understand that stuff and basically guessed on those quetions on the MCAT. The rest of my science grades are around B- so organic is what I'm worried about most holding me back. So what should I do? I really want to be a doctor and really want to get into medical school.

Jenna,

Everyone has given good feedback. And its not too late, but you will have to put in some extra time. What is one or two years extra in order to do what you want with your life in the grand scheme of things?
If you do still want to pursue MD or DO:
1. Set a new academic record (postbac since it will bring up your undergrad gpa). Make sure you get only A's. So don't take too many classes at once--but enough to show you can handle the load--not more than 3 to begin with. There are some post-bac programs that feed you into their schools. Bring your science gpa to at least a 3.0.
2. retake the mcat (with a prep course and limit the other activities in your life) Shoot for at least a 27, 9 average across the board--the national average.

Go for the dream and hard work does pay off! Don't give up. Find a mentor (an MD or DO who is willing to guide you thru this process)---they will help you stay focused when it gets difficult.

Best of luck

 

[stinkycheese]

Let's see... You've come onto this board, told us of your below average stats, and dismissed or given reasons against every piece of advice people are giving you. You don't want to spend the time on a post-bacc? You don't want to go to the Caribbean? You don't want to consider other health-care field jobs? Then what, little one, do you want to do? Wave a magic wand and get into medical school? It's not going to happen. You are not competitive at all and you don't seem to understand how much hard work is going to be necessary to become competitive.

You say you must study "enough" because you study the same amount as your friends and sorority sisters. Well, would you say that pulling piss-poor grades in science courses is the result of studying "enough"? Maybe you need to study more than most people. It happens. If you don't want to do it, tough. You won't succeed. Either commit or get out.

Additionally, you say that your primary concern is orgo because the rest of your science classes are B- average. That's not good enough, either. 2.67 isn't going to get you into any school, MD or DO, without a pretty stellar MCAT and explanation for the poor grades.

You're motivated by money, it seems, from your post about PA's. You don't understand that medicine is science; if you dont like your science courses or can't handle them, what makes you think you would succeed in medical school?

This post may be harsh, but you need a huge reality check.

 

[Jenna2004]

🙁

 

[Medikit]

It's an idea, but unfortunately, you probably don't have a shot at an accreddited Carribean school (schools from which a degree allows one to practice in California).

This is wrong.

I would look into Guadalajara and the 5th pathway from NYMC. I would also give DO's a good shot, you have a chance at DO although it is a small one.

 

[Kevbot]

Wow stinkycheese... maybe that was a bit too brutally honest. But unfortunately Jenna, he does make a good point - You study as much as most people, but most people don't get into medical school. Medicine is one of those areas where you have a lot of people whose motivation is that they want a good stable career where they can also make a difference in peoples lives. Tough competition, limited seat numbers, greedy insurance companys, and relentless diseases tend to get in the way of that ideal. The reality of medicine is that a lot of good hearted, caring, motivated people who would make great doctors don't get the chance to go to medical school. If you want to know what drives some people to study as hard as they do, check out www.accepted.com and read some of the personal statements that are posted. Good luck with everything. 🙂

 

[fever5]

Jenna

1) first you sound like a social girl. Great, but drop it. Soroities don't get you better grades. Extensive socialization wastes precious study time. Spend socializing time in a hospital volunteering or something. No matter what anyone tells you, bottom line is hours spent studying.

2) studying to learn means knowing the material well enough to write an exam with a migrane...i.e. you don't have to think about it

3) sit down, and think about your priorities. If you still are absolutely serious about med, redo all the courses to do well on Med: general chem, physics, phsyiology (is a must), and a bit of organic. If redoing all of this seems to daunting, then don't do medicine.

Med school is going to be harder than anything in basic university. Go to a local med school's site and get the book list. It is usually a rude awakening for the most adept student. Next get the time table...

4) Finally, you can get into med school if you want to. But first you'll probably need to revamp your whole outlook on studying, socializing and general life priorities.

Best of luck.

 

[45408]

Without doing a post-bacc, I can't imagine a med school would overlook your C- and D- in organic chemistry. Can't you at least re-take those classes?

If you want to become a doctor, you're going to have to at least kick moderate butt on the MCAT (high twenties) to get into a DO school or a warm-climate MD school.

Overall, because the MCAT and your GPA are typically good indicators of future success, I would give much more thorough consideration to the suggestions of being a PA or an MSN (nurse practitioner). Your chances at being a doctor seem quite slim to me. It would be a lot easier to go the PA route though, because you already have a lot of those classes finished, whereas an MSN is almost an entirely different road.

 

[captbadass]

i might be wrong, but doesn't it kind of sound like jenna is a troll? If she is serious, then she needs more than just improvement on the academic side of things. her whole attitude towards becoming a doctor needs to be re evaluated.

 

[X.O.]

This has troll written all over it. Props for suckering this many people .

 

[Mistress S]

I don't know if Jenna is a troll or not, but I just wanted to throw out there regarding the suggestion that she look into becoming an NP or PA, honestly her stats aren't up to par for those programs at this point either. I have worked with many NP's and people applying to both NP and PA programs, they are quite competitve as well and a GPA <3.0 certainly won't cut it. Also, a significant amount of clinical experience is often emphasized for these programs, particularly PA, so someone lacking this would be at a serious disadvantage as many of the applicants have years of experience. Just thought I'd point this out, as the attitude seems to be that it would be much easier to get into these programs, when in fact it would require at least another year of hard work on the part of the OP in terms of taking upper-division sciences (including A&P), bringing up her GPA, and putting in some serious time gaining clinical experience.

OP, if you decide to pursue any graduate level program in the health sciences, especially MD or DO, it is going to take a lot of work on your part to become a competitive applicant, and if you are not willing to put in the time--at least a couple of years to bring your grades up and improve at least several points on the MCAT--then you probably aren't cut out to be a doctor. If this is truly your goal, people have given many excellent suggestions as to how you could go about reaching it. It's up to you to decide your priorities in life.

 

[fotolilith]

Look, never lose hope.

But you're going to have to change your plans. A LOT.

First and foremost, you have to take the MCAT again. That means start studying right now, drop the running club, drop the sorority, drop the kiddos in your pediatric hospital. I know a few people in med school right now who took it 3 times. Raising the sciences to at least a 9 is easier than raising the verbal.

A rep from UT Southwestern came to my school a few years ago and actually admitted that the screening for most schools starts about 26. Their matriculant MCAT scores ranged from 23-40 (seriously), but unofficially you can show you know the material by scoring 9s across the board to get some consideration for an interview. But NO amount of helping kids will make them overlook your GPA/ MCAT as it is right now.

Second, you have to get your GPA (science and otherwise) back up. And honestly, I'm not certain that a post bacc will do it. From the testimonies I've read about people who had a rocky start in undergrad & later had to apply a few times for med school, even the ones who got high gpas in post baccs were told it could not expunge a low undergrad gpa. Most say you need to *finish* the post bacc degree before you're giving a shot, which means you would not start for another 3-4 years.

That, on top of the crap salary you'll be paid as a resident in the mandatory 7+ year program you'll need to take to get to your dream of plastic surgery makes the "lower salary" of the PA seem pretty rosy. By the time you start your plastic surgery practice your Physician Assistant friends will have nearly 10 years of salary on you. ;-P

And in all honesty, you should seriously consider taking ochem again. I know someone who got a D in Ochem 2 who got into med school last year - but she retook the class and got an A. Ochem is NOT the enemy - it takes time/ practice. It's aesthetic - full of patterns. With enough practice you get the rhythm down. And find new study partners.

 

[liverotcod]

Good point, Mistress. I was thinking along the lines of building up: BSN/RN -> MSN (after several years) -> NP, but I agree that you still have to show promise in the sciences. Does that make sense as an "easier" pathway? I was assuming so, but perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[dca_55]

First of all, I would highly recommend talking to a pre-med/health advisor at your school. They should be able to give you the best advice on what your chances are and what you can do to improve them. Second of all, I tend to agree with many of the previous posts. You need to prove to admission commitees that you can handle the med school curriculum, and I'm not sure how effective a sub 3.0 gpa and low 20's mcat is in doing that. I don't think you should give up, if this really is your dream; just realize you need to somehow improve your stats. Post-bac's is one way to help your gpa. It also says you studied for the MCAT a "few hours a week", most people I know put in much, much more study time. One final thing to consider, surgery in general is one of the most competitive specialties to get into after med school; and plastic surgery is really competitive. Youre going to need to perform well in your medschool science classes and on your boards (more standardized tests!) to have a shot at getting into those residencies. You need to start learning now on how to improve your grades/test scores to meet your goals, even if it means putting off applying for a year to do a postbac, retake orgo, etc. Anything is possible, best of luck!

 

[Jenna2004]

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice, but all of those ideas take too long. I was looking for a way to get into the entering class of 2004. 🙁

 

[Assembler]

I don't want to say you're a troll, but you keep rejecting most of everyone's opinions on here.

If still want to pursue medicine, you're going to need to do a post-bacc and get your MCAT up a few more notches (at least 27-28).

Otherwise, I recommend you try looking into some foreign medical schools. Some even have an integrated premedical curriculum where you can take all of your undergrad sciences over. If you pass all of those, I'm sure you can get into their MD programs at the very least.

P.S. The entering class of 2004 is long gone....it's for 2005 now. Hmm....

 

[Jenna2004]

I don't want to say you're a troll, but you keep rejecting most of everyone's opinions on here.

If still want to pursue medicine, you're going to need to do a post-bacc and get your MCAT up a few more notches (at least 27-28).

Otherwise, I recommend you try looking into some foreign medical schools. Some even have an integrated premedical curriculum where you can take all of your undergrad sciences over. If you pass all of those, I'm sure you can get into their MD programs at the very least.

P.S. The entering class of 2004 is long gone....it's for 2005 now. Hmm....

Darn typos. I didn't mean 2004 or 2005. I want to get into the entering class of 2006. I would consider foreign medical schools, but they're just too far away from home 🙁 .

 

[DrThom]

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice, but all of those ideas take too long. I was looking for a way to get into the entering class of 2004. 🙁

Then your only hope is to sleep with the dean of admissions at your school of choice.

 

[lakersfan]

I would do the Carribean thing...I mean even if you do stellar in a postbach program, I think it's gonna be really tough to bring up a GPA that to be honest, is very low. If you think you're smarter than your MCAT scores and GPA suggest, I would definitely give the Carribean a shot. If you're that worried about moving away from the U.S. for a few years, maybe you should then consider doing the post bach program and apply to a DO school.

If you want money, do investment banking, lol (I'm a business major)...all my friends are getting salaries aroun 80K/ year and that doesnt even include bonuses. 🙂 😀

 

[DrThom]

Oh BTW,

If you want some numbers:

For the entering class of 2003:

Out of 1250 applicants who applied with your MCAT score (23):

1000 were not accepted and 250 were.

Out of 2000 applicants who applied with your overall GPA (2.95):

1800 were not accepted and 200 were

Out of the 2000 applicants who applied with your science GPA (2.79):

1800 were not accepted and 200 were

My source on this is this years MSAR.

So, the odds are against you and if you do choose to apply, there better be something damn specatular about your application, like you are the next Buddha or something.

 

[lakersfan]

Oh BTW,

If you want some numbers:

For the entering class of 2003:

Out of 1250 applicants who applied with your MCAT score (23):

1000 were not accepted and 250 were.

Out of 2000 applicants who applied with your overall GPA (2.95):

1800 were not accepted and 200 were

Out of the 2000 applicants who applied with your science GPA (2.79):

1800 were not accepted and 200 were

My source on this is this years MSAR.

So, the odds are against you and if you do choose to apply, there better be something damn specatular about your application, like you are the next Buddha or something.

buddha....haha

 

[junebuguf]

Jenna, this is going to sound awful but I've read your posts and I have to say...

1) Figure out why the hell you want to be involved in medicine. Your reason for dismissing the PA profession because they just dont make as much as money reveals an acute ignorance about medicine that will not serve you well. To become a plastic surgeon, you will need to go through 4 years of med school and (I believe) a 3 year plastic surgery residency (there may be a 5 year general surgery residency that precedes it). So thats 7-12 years of work, in addition to all the post-bacc/MS work YOU WILL HAVE TO DO just to get in. PA's are done in 2 years w/o any residency and can make $80k to start.

2) You say you 'just dont get that stuff' in regards to Orgo. Guess what med school is? Tons of concepts (albeit not as consistently challenging as Orgo) and loads of memorization (mechanisms anyone?). Just about everyone whos been thorugh the first two years of med school would concur: compared to the sheer amount of memorization in med school, an Orgo class is a piece of cake. Also, when most people get a bad grade...like say a D- in Orgo II....they dont explain it by saying (effectively) 'the only reason I got even a D- was because I turned on the water works in the professors office and he finally caved in and passed me'--it doesnt inspire the kind of confidence in a sincere post-bacc that you would like to see.

3) You dont want to do a post-bacc? There are tons of us on this board with bad grades/MCAT scores. We're not trying to take the easy road....you shouldnt either.

So let me summarize. You dont want to work on your grades, you dont 'get that stuff,' and your primary reason for dismissing a perfectly worthwhile medical profession seems to be on the basis of income...People like you who have no credentials *and* are unrepentantly seeking the path of least resistance for purely monetary gain have no business in medicine.

 

[junebuguf]

PS Don't get me wrong...I really do think youre a horrible person.

 

[liverotcod]

PS Don't get me wrong...I really do think youre a horrible person.

...or more likely a troll.

 

[stinkycheese]

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice, but all of those ideas take too long. I was looking for a way to get into the entering class of 2004. 🙁

Does your sorority have classes in fellatio technique? Brush up on that and you might not need the MCAT or a good GPA.

 

[liverotcod]

Does your sorority have classes in fellatio technique? Brush up on that and you might not need the MCAT or a good GPA.

And if so, do they need practice dummies?

 

[CarlosMielefan]

Go into p0rn.

That was most unkind. I would worry about my chances if I were you. There is such a thing as the law of retribution.

 

[EvoDevo]

Hiya SnS. Nice work. Do it again and you're perma-banned.

 

[superdevil]

And if so, do they need practice dummies?

great line. 👍