What are my Options?

[wasvsdal]

Horrible science grades, consequently horrible overall gpa

(2.4 Science, 3.0 Overall..still have 9 credits of sciences left before i graduate next semester). I am an Accounting/Finance major!

Plan on taking MCATs in April or August..whenever i can reach my goal of 35+ on practice exams.

Calc I - A
Calc II - A
Phys I - B
Bio I - B
Orgo I - B
Orgo II - C
Microbio - C
Genetics - C
Cell Bio - D (retake next semester)
Bchem - D
Phys 2 - next semester

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[Perrotfish]

1) Do well, both in your remaining science classes and on the MCATs

2) Retake the 2 Ds, if you have the time

3) Do an SMP, ideally starting next fall.

 

[Isoprop]

retake D's & C's. you may need a year of post-bacc work after you graduate. depending on what you get on your mcat may decide what's the best option for you.

if you can get a year of close to 4.0 post-bacc with upper div sciences and score 35+ on your mcat, you have a good shot at med school if you apply early and broadly.

if you score 30-34, you use the same strategy but apply to SMP during your post-bacc year and take SMP classes while applying.

if you score <30 or your post-bacc gpa is less than 3.5, you need to take a good long look at where you are going wrong and correct the problem before you can go any further.

this is also assuming you have good lors, ec's, etc.

 

[wasvsdal]

this is scary man.

you need to take a good long look at where you are going wrong and correct the problem before you can go any further.

ahhhhhhh

 

[Isoprop]

i don't mean to scare you. what i mean is that if you are not doing consistantly well, you should figure out a reason why you aren't doing so well and try to do better.

let's say you aren't doing well for some reason. and let's say that you got accepted to med school anyway. that problem is still going to be there and will kick your ass during medical school. if you dropped out, you would have no chance of getting back in.

think of this period as your training period for medical school. right now you're figuring out how to succeed so you won't flunk out of med school.

good luck!

 

[Perrotfish]

if you can get a year of close to 4.0 post-bacc with upper div sciences and score 35+ on your mcat, you have a good shot at med school if you apply early and broadly.

I gotta disagree with this. Anyone with significantly less than a 3.2 (and less than 3.0 science GPA) at graduation is going to need more than a year to get their GPA to competitive levels. This sort of GPA is what SMPs are designed for. If he manages to get his 35+ he needs to do the SMP before his score expires. If he doesn't get a good MCAT he needs to either retake it or find another career.

BTW OP, I think you would need to take the MCAT in april in order to meet the admssions deadlines for SMPs starting this fall.

 

[wasvsdal]

yup i guess im just banking on MCATs now. im gonna start studying tomorrow morning, and take the April 19th exam. do u guys know how late i can register for them? otherwise, if i push it to august..i might have to wait a year before applying. but i dont wanna think about that option.

 

[notdeadyet]

yup i guess im just banking on MCATs now. im gonna start studying tomorrow morning, and take the April 19th exam.

Uh, I'd hold off on this, if I were you.

Even if you get all A's on the three classes next semester, you're looking at a 2.8 science GPA, no? Even with a killer MCAT, I don't think that's going to fly. If you had some amazing outside-school life experience that dazzled them, and your bad grades were from 5 years ago, it might go over okay.

Take a year at a formal or informal postbac and raise your GPA. You can use the time to build clinical experience and really prep for the MCAT. An extra year is not as long as you think.

 

[notdeadyet]

I gotta disagree with this. Anyone with significantly less than a 3.2 (and less than 3.0 science GPA) at graduation is going to need more than a year to get their GPA to competitive levels. This sort of GPA is what SMPs are designed for.

Or post-bac. I'd work on raising an undergrad GPA to something presentable rather than apply with a sub-3.0 and a fresh grad GPA.

If he manages to get his 35+ he needs to do the SMP before his score expires. If he doesn't get a good MCAT he needs to either retake it or find another career.

Why take an MCAT at all? He'll be MUCH better prepared after he's had a bit more quality science classes.

 

[wasvsdal]

Isnt that the point of SMP's though?

Or are you saying stay in school for another semester/year and then post-bac and then med school?

 

[Isoprop]

I gotta disagree with this. Anyone with significantly less than a 3.2 (and less than 3.0 science GPA) at graduation is going to need more than a year to get their GPA to competitive levels. This sort of GPA is what SMPs are designed for. If he manages to get his 35+ he needs to do the SMP before his score expires. If he doesn't get a good MCAT he needs to either retake it or find another career.

BTW OP, I think you would need to take the MCAT in april in order to meet the admssions deadlines for SMPs starting this fall.

yeah you're right, i think i just gleaned over the gpa in OP's post. 3.2 with a high mcat score still needs an SMP to have a good shot at medical school.

 

[Isoprop]

Why take an MCAT at all? He'll be MUCH better prepared after he's had a bit more quality science classes.

he needs an MCAT to apply to an SMP. and most likely, he'll apply to med school the summer before he starts his SMP so he'll need the MCAT either way.

Isnt that the point of SMP's though?

Or are you saying stay in school for another semester/year and then post-bac and then med school?

SMP's are meant as a last resort way to prove yourself worthy of med school. you absolutely need to do BETTER than med students at least your first semester to get yourself into med school. you need the mcat in order to apply to SMPs, and you should be applying to med school before you even start the SMP anyway.

what i see as a good plan is one year after this year of post-bacc work with a 4.0 (or close to it) to raise your science gpa above 3.0 and your overal gpa above 3.2. especially retake all the classes you got a C in or below.

take the mcat during your post-bacc year when you are ready. apply to SMPs.

apply to med school and finish your secondaries BEFORE you start your SMP program. start your SMP (and seriously ROCK those classes, this is your last chance). update med schools as you get your first semester grades. hopefully, by jan/feb you'll get an acceptance.

good luck.

 

[wasvsdal]

Let me just make sure i understand exactly what you recommended.

Next Semester: Finish up
Year: Post-bac (try and stay as close to a 4.0 as possible)
Year 2: SMP
Year 3: Med School

Is there any way I could cut out a year somewhere in there?

 

[Lokhtar]

Let me just make sure i understand exactly what you recommended.

Next Semester: Finish up
Year: Post-bac (try and stay as close to a 4.0 as possible)
Year 2: SMP
Year 3: Med School

Is there any way I could cut out a year somewhere in there?

Nope. You may be able to skip a SMP if you do really well on the MCATs, and get your GPA (both types) to above a 3.0 and go to a DO school or the Caribbean. Otherwise, you'll have to do the SMP. And it may be that it takes more, because many times there is a lag year between classes & med school.

 

[wasvsdal]

Ok sorry about this. just properly calculated my science gpa with +/- and everything. I have a 2.6 right now, and if I can get A's in the 9 science credits that im taking next semester then ill have a 2.85

I could potentially take two more classes over the summer, and move my science gpa to a 3.01

 

[wasvsdal]

btw i did include my A in math while calculating that GPA...but then again i didnt include my AP (5) in Chem.

 

[Lokhtar]

Ok sorry about this. just properly calculated my science gpa with +/- and everything. I have a 2.6 right now, and if I can get A's in the 9 science credits that im taking next semester then ill have a 2.85

I could potentially take two more classes over the summer, and move my science gpa to a 3.01

Good. What would be your overall at that point? If you do an extra year of science classes and get As, what would your overall and science be then?

 

[wasvsdal]

3.3 Overall, 3.2 Science with 4.0's in the next three semester.

 

[Isoprop]

you won't be wasting time if you do the smp because you'll be doing the program at the same time you're applying to med school. and you need 1 year of post-bacc (1 year is minimum) to raise your gpa that high. so no, i don't see how you can cut a year out if you go md/do in the US.

edit: in other words, if you don't do the SMP, it'll still take the same amount of time to go to med school. so you might as well take it unless you don't want to shell out the money.

 

[wasvsdal]

do SMP classes count towards med school or do u have to take them over again?

 

[Perrotfish]

yup i guess im just banking on MCATs now. im gonna start studying tomorrow morning, and take the April 19th exam.

So you know, if you're banking on a 35+ for the MCAT you're probably going to want to take a formal review course. TPR, Kaplan, TBR, and Exam Krackers all have good reviews. Studying on your own probably isn't the best way to set yourself up for a miracle.

do SMP classes count towards med school or do u have to take them over again?

Generally an SMP will get you out of the classes if you end up at the medical school where you took the SMP.

you won't be wasting time if you do the smp because you'll be doing the program at the same time you're applying to med school. and you need 1 year of post-bacc (1 year is minimum) to raise your gpa that high. so no, i don't see how you can cut a year out if you go md/do in the US.

If the OP can actually manage the miracle MCAT score, I really don't see why he would need a year of post-bac. Maybe he should retake those 2 Ds over the summer before he start the SMP, but that's about it. A 3.0 with a great MCAT is more than enough to get him into the SMP program (I got into most of the SMPs out there with a 2.82 cumulative and science GPA), and once he's there his performance in the program is all that matters.

Oh, and OP? Honestly the people here make an SMP sound scarier than it really is. Yes if you screw up you're never going to medical school, but at the top SMP programs the acceptance rate is generally over 80%. Not all that many people screw up. The expense does suck, but that's true for medical school too.

 

[Isoprop]

If the OP can actually manage the miracle MCAT score, I really don't see why he would need a year of post-bac. Maybe he should retake those 2 Ds over the summer before he start the SMP, but that's about it. A 3.0 with a great MCAT is more than enough to get him into the SMP program (I got into most of the SMPs out there with a 2.82 cumulative and science GPA), and once he's there his performance in the program is all that matters.

OP needs to prove to himself that he can handle both med school and an SMP if he got accepted. right now, OP has a downward trend that he needs to reverse with, IMO, at least two semesters of good grades.

statistically speaking, an applicant with a 3.0 gpa has a very low chance of acceptance from the latest msar. 1 year of coursework to bring the GPA to a 3.2 to 3.3 range not only doubles OPs chance of acceptance, but also shows a good upward trend in gpa.

 

[wasvsdal]

Yeah its def true. I need to prove to myself that I can handle this before I go on the med school route.

And Ill certainly take a prep course next semester for MCATs.

u guys have been real wonderful in helping me organize a plan. Thank you so much!!!

its so much harder for me because im so double sided. i am an accounting major, and theres a billion things i could do with an excellent living standard..and it just keeps distracting me from what i want to do {med school}. i look at it and im like ****..theres 2 years of "pointless" schooling ahead of me...ill be 31 by the time im done with school etc. etc.. its just a scary thought. do u guys ever get scared at the thought of losing a decade?

 

[Perrotfish]

do u guys ever get scared at the thought of losing a decade?

Yup. I'll be doing the military, too, so the next time I'm really 'free' I'll be 36 years old (assuming I get in at all). It freakin sucks.

And yes, I have an engineering major, so I'm also passing up a different lucrative career.

OP needs to prove to himself that he can handle both med school and an SMP if he got accepted. right now, OP has a downward trend that he needs to reverse with, IMO, at least two semesters of good grades.

I see what you mean proving to himself he can do well. However I think that an SMP works just as well for that as a post-bac, or at least it has for me (I had an absolutely flat trend: a 2.8 just about every semester). He definitely doesn't need the positive trend to prove his ability to medical schools: the SMP will take care of that one way or the other. If he gets his miricle MCAT I still think that he should apply to an SMP as soon as possible, so the score doesn't expire if he ends up needing a lag year to apply.

 

[dandoe123]

Let me just make sure i understand exactly what you recommended.

Next Semester: Finish up
Year: Post-bac (try and stay as close to a 4.0 as possible)
Year 2: SMP
Year 3: Med School

Is there any way I could cut out a year somewhere in there?

I'm still slightly baffled about Post-Bacc programs. Can the thread starter take post-bacc programs? I was under the assumption that if you've taken most of your pre-reqs... you aren't eligible to apply to post-bacc programs... at least a formal post-bacc program.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm still slightly baffled about Post-Bacc programs. Can the thread starter take post-bacc programs? I was under the assumption that if you've taken most of your pre-reqs... you aren't eligible to apply to post-bacc programs... at least a formal post-bacc program.

You're just confused by the terminology used on SDN

A formal post-bac program (refered to elsewhere in the world as 'a post-bac program') is a structured program designed to get people who majored in something other than medicine in to medical school. If you've taken the pre-reqs you're probably not eligible.

An 'informal post-bac program' is an SDN term which referes to going back to undergrad after you've graduated, retaking all the **** you failed, and then taking even more undergrad courses until your grades are up to par. People use this term because it sounds somewhat more dignified than 'seventh year senior'.

 

[wasvsdal]

I got a D in Biochem. i think im going to cry...

is there any way to find out if medicine is for me before i take myself on this long road ahead? can i read any books/magazines etc? i tried reading some papers but i doubt anyone (including doctors) understand them.

 

[Perrotfish]

I got a D in Biochem. i think im going to cry...

is there any way to find out if medicine is for me before i take myself on this long road ahead? can i read any books/magazines etc? i tried reading some papers but i doubt anyone (including doctors) understand them.

1) shadow doctors, in several fields (you should have done this already)

2) EMT certification (if you have the time)

3) Take a summer pre-medical program, I think St. Georges has one. That or take an Anatomy class with cadaver disection (this will tell you more about whether you're going to like medical school than medicine itself, though).

4) Your classes and the MCAT. Seriously if you don't like biology or chemistry you're gonna hate medical school, if not medicine itself. If you hate the MCAT you're probably gonna hate the USMLEs even more.

5) First season of Scrubs. I'm told it's surprisingly accurate.

Condolences on the grade. Now go forget about it until after New Years.

 

[dandoe123]

I got a D in Biochem. i think im going to cry...

is there any way to find out if medicine is for me before i take myself on this long road ahead? can i read any books/magazines etc? i tried reading some papers but i doubt anyone (including doctors) understand them.

i could be mistaken here, but no books or magazines will answer that question. just like you'll never know if you are a good painter or good in bed until you actually try it out, only way you'll find out if medicine is for you is to do medicine. i suppose that's why there are so many disgruntled doctors out there.

what you could do and i think most people would suggest is to shadow doctors, volunteer at the hospital, etc... that's the "closest" you'll get to experience medicine without becoming a doc.

 

[wasvsdal]

I have volunteered at the hospital, and its the reason I went back to pre-med. I am going to read an Anatomy book this winter break to prepare for MCATs and get to know a bit bout myself. Ill keep u guys posted.

 

[Isoprop]

i would definitely recommend against reading anatomy for the mcat. it's just overkill. if you wanted to read something medical related, i would read some physiology.

 

[wasvsdal]

damn i just got an anatomy textbook.

btw..i had another question. how do u guys plan on funding these extra years of schooling due to post-bac?

so far im 20k in debt, and another 15k coming up in my last year. then with post-bac, thats 30k more. and ofcourse med school will add 200k more to that. this doesnt even include any living expenses, which i hope to take care of by getting a job.

 

[Lokhtar]

damn i just got an anatomy textbook.

btw..i had another question. how do u guys plan on funding these extra years of schooling due to post-bac?

so far im 20k in debt, and another 15k coming up in my last year. then with post-bac, thats 30k more. and ofcourse med school will add 200k more to that. this doesnt even include any living expenses, which i hope to take care of by getting a job.

Err, you won't be able to do a job in med school. In any case, my plan is to not even think about how much debt I'm racking up.

 

[wasvsdal]

****k i just realized i havent taken calc 2 yet. is it required?

 

[Isoprop]

calc II... at some schools, yes.

there's a limit on the max amount of undergrad student loans you can take. you better check that. the info should be on http://www.finaid.org/

SMPs are graduate level so you would take gradplus loans out for that.

and yes, don't count on working during SMPs and medical school. eat the loans and pay them later. the interest rate is very reasonable (max at ~8.5% i believe).

 

[wasvsdal]

Ross & SGU dont require it, and it doesnt say at Georgetown SMP or VCU Basic Health Sciences.

Those are the 4 places im applying at.

 

[wasvsdal]

Georgetown is the most competitive (and has a 90+ % success rate) while VCU is the least competitive of the programs I've listed (and I beleive it has barely over a 20% success rate).

HOLDDD UP....vcu has a 20% success rate. i thought it was like 60-70%