What are some programs that are less competitive but still have a good research track?

[someqsaboutstuff]

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I have a goal of doing majority basic science research as an MD (not mdphd student) and would like to go to a neuro residency which has a good track record of producing residents who successfully get K-awards (and eventually/hopefully R01s).

Obviously the top N programs are (ostensibly) the best bet for such goals, but I come from a pretty low-tier MD school and am nowhere near the top of my class, nor do I have numerous publications. So it's not super high yield to spend a lot of time thinking about UCSF etc.

I am aware of programs with R25 grants, but I was wondering beyond that if there are programs which are more accessible to the average/normal neurology applicant that I can consider applying to.

If people can suggest "reasonable" programs which have good track records for producing MD-only physician scientists, I would appreciate it!

 

[CnsCrit]

It's a fair question to ask, and I don't want to give you specific names mainly bc I only applied to certain places and didn't really look closely into lots of other good programs outside regions I was willing to move to. Start regionally with locations you know you're interested in. Look at faculty in the department and check in on their research, publication record, lab websites, talk to people. Look for faculty that have protected FTE for research. It can help if you have an idea what you're interested in because not many places are truly academically productive in all areas of neurology. Some will have very productive stroke/NCC research divisions but nearly nonexistent headache or neuromuscular, for example. Keep in mind that not many residents become true physician scientists, and its not because they couldn't have done it in their training program or couldn't have had great research mentorship, they just didn't want to. Furthermore, some will wait until fellowship to become more productive. You just have to take the time to talk to people and look into individual programs for hints, it can take some work but is doable if you don't over-apply.

 

[Aldertonghen]

In addition to the above, you also want time for research. There are programs that have really good faculty (who are NIH funded), but only have 4-7 residents a class and run 3-4 hospitals , meaning it’s tough to have time to do much research even if you have mentorship. Like I for example sometimes go to a lab during days (on my own free will) when I’m on my night float because that’s the only way I get time to do any real research, which also means I’m basically working night and day, which is not something you want.

In addition to R25 programs, there are programs with a surplus of residents that have non R25 research tracks (Miami, UMass, Case western) that I have heard are really good. Those are all very reachable programs.

 

[Hank Rearden]

Agree with most of what was said above. One strategy is to look for programs that have a T32 fellowship they can funnel people into post-residency to get additional research training / bridge them to K-award. Another strategy, as one of the other posters said, is to find a program that is really good in one subspecialty of neurology you're interested in and perhaps not as good overall. For example, back in the day UT Houston used to be a powerhouse for stroke but not strong in much else. I think the program is much better all around now. There are probably many other examples like this. You could also do residency, then a fellowship that has a year of clinical and 2-3 years of research (typically also under a T32 mechanism) - this is a better strategy in my opinion as you will be more valuable to an academic department with subspecialty clinical training even if you mostly do research.

 

[ProReduction]

I have a goal of doing majority basic science research as an MD (not mdphd student) and would like to go to a neuro residency which has a good track record of producing residents who successfully get K-awards (and eventually/hopefully R01s).

Obviously the top N programs are (ostensibly) the best bet for such goals, but I come from a pretty low-tier MD school and am nowhere near the top of my class, nor do I have numerous publications. So it's not super high yield to spend a lot of time thinking about UCSF etc.

I am aware of programs with R25 grants, but I was wondering beyond that if there are programs which are more accessible to the average/normal neurology applicant that I can consider applying to.

If people can suggest "reasonable" programs which have good track records for producing MD-only physician scientists, I would appreciate it!

I am giving you this frank advice because it is what I would have wanted 10 years ago. You need to be very realistic about your current potential as a consistently funded, independent basic science researcher. You do not have a PhD. You do not have a significant publication history. You are essentially starting from scratch from a position (medical student) that yields zero legit research skills. Anyone that says that medical school teaches one how to do research has never done legit research. They are completely separate skills.
You would be functioning at the level of an undergraduate in a basic science lab. This means that you have 8 years of research learning/skills on which to catch-up. You will need two things: time and a mentor. Time is minimal in almost all neurology residency programs but you should prioritize those with protected elective/research time. You also need to identify a mentor before you match that is willing to take you into his/her lab with the explicit understanding that you are looking to train as a researcher from scratch. Do not join a MD-run lab. You need to join the lab of a PhD or a MD/PhD. You will need to understand that you will spend every evening, every weekend in said lab during residency to make up for lost time. After that you will likely need to do a post-doc research fellowship. It can be done but be ready for a marathon.

Data:

NIH Extramural Nexus (News) | Grants & Funding

nexus.od.nih.gov

T32s are no secure path as a MD and I know this personally. Figure 2 shows that recipients with MD-PhD degrees were PI’s on awarded grants at greater rates than those with PhD degrees, whereas those with MD degrees were PI’s on awards at the lowest rate. MD-only applicants are much less successful.