islandchickie said:hi! is there anyone out there who could brief me about how to get into derma residency training in metro manila? i heard there were only 10 accredited programs in the whole philippines (and one of them is in DAVAO!)? this residency program is quite competitive now. if not in the philippines, do you guys know if there is any other residency training programs for derma that i wouldn't have to endure the USMLE?
WaZoBia said:i know UERM on Aurora Blvd in Sta Mesa has one, you might also wanna check out UST, PGH, MCU and Jose Reyes.
islandchickie said:thanks... 🙂 i've heard about it too. uhm, do you think it's kind of premature to ask about openings for residency programs for derma as early as now?actually i'm in a point where i'm weighing the benefits of pursuing residency here in the philippines or take the risk of delaying residency in favor for USMLE. do you mind sharing an opinion about this? i'm trying to get as much inputs from others about this dilemma... 🙁 thanks...
WaZoBia said:not to sound unpatriotic (since you know how pinoys frown on docs leaving the country) but i think that if you are willing to set aside a year or two to work on going to the US, and you have the means, you should definitely give it a shot. having said that, you should also take into consideration the fact that derma is a competitive residency in the philippines as well as in the states and unlike the philippines where good med school degrees and reasonable board scores might be able to secure you a spot, in the US those things (i'm speaking of you as an IMG here) aren't taken into account and the USMLEs and references from US hospitals where (if) you've rotated are the only real way you can be graded "objectively."
i hope i'm not making it sound like an impossible task cos it is possible.
training in the philippines is fantastic, most programs encourage an early hands on approach plus your bading(they seem drawn to derma) co-residents will make sure there's never a dull moment. one of the biggest pros would have to be continuity of medical education. other benefits definitely include great exposure, the fact that there are a limited number of programs coupled with the typical manileno's desire for flawless skin and the rise of "metrosexualism" ensure that you will never have a shortage of patients, at least in your residency years.
as for the states, pay's better. training might not be better but is definitely more recognized worlwide. you have the option of returning to the PI where we will welcome you with open arms and your US certificate will attract more patients = more pera. although it might take you a longer time to secure a position, i think it's worth it in the long run.
on to your other question now, no i don't think it is premature to ask about openings, assuming you've already taken the boards and have a free time on your hands, you might actually wanna visit some hospitals and ask in person. take a look around, see if you know anyone in the program. you know how it is here, if you know someone it's a lot easier to get in.
ok, that's all i got for now, hope it was helpful. 😀
islandchickie said:thanks so much! you're right about derma and how competitive it is here and the US. i kind of got the impression while surfing the net the it is quite and impossible field to enter for IMG's like myself. since mle is too expensive, if eve i do get to pass, i'd rather take my chances for more IMG friendly programs like IM or fam med.
i guess it's also time to gather up enough guts to ask around for derma openings just in case.
saw this in the official PGH site.
PGH Now Accepting Residency and Fellowship Training Applicants
The Philippine General Hospital is now accepting applicants for residency and fellowship training. Application forms are now available at the Office of the Deputy Director for Health Operations.
Applicants are required to submit an accomplished application form, together with the following:
1. 2 passport-sized pictures
2. 2 xerox copies of Transcript of Records
3. 2 xerox copies of MD diploma
4. 2 xerox copies of community tax certificate
5. 2 copies of certification of class rank and GWA from the Office of the Dean
6. 2 xerox copies of Certificate of Internship
7. 2 xerox copies of Certificate of Residency (if applying for fellowship)
Deadline for application is on July 31, 2006. Interested physicians may call 5234246 for details.
...i'm assuming this goes for all the residency programs they have. but am still having second thoughts if i should even dare apply there.
thanks again...i really appreciate your honest and objective opinion... 👍 😀
I would suggest to try UP-PGH, UST, UERM, and Makati Med first as these have strong academic affiliations. It's relatively competitive but if you apply to all of them, there is a good chance thay you'll get in (many students are trying to get out of the country for economic reasons).The PSCM currently has more than 200 members while the PDS has about 350. Both adhere to very strict requirements for membership. The PSCM has five accredited dermatology residency training programs and institutions approved, namely the Davao Medical Center, East Avenue Medical Center, Jose R. Reyes Memorial Medical Center, Ospital Ng Maynila Medical Center, and Research Institute of Tropical Medicine. The PDS accredited institutions and hospitals are UP-PGH, University of Santo Tomas, Skin and Cancer Foundation, UE-Ramon Magsaysay Medical Center and the Makati Medical Center.
tantrum said:If Dermatology is really what you want and that is your passion,don't be scared and go for it. Apply to all the programs that are accredited. There are 2 accreditation bodies PSCM (Philippine Society of Cutaneous Medicine) and PDS (Philippine Dermatological Society). Here is a quote from an Inquirer article.
tantrum said:I would suggest to try UP-PGH, UST, UERM, and Makati Med first as these have strong academic affiliations. It's relatively competitive but if you apply to all of them, there is a good chance thay you'll get in (many students are trying to get out of the country for economic reasons).
tantrum said:As for USMLE, you can still prepare for it while you're in residency (it's not as labor-intensive as other specialties, not toxic). You will also need it in case you want to have a Derm fellowship in the US. Dermatology residency in the US is too competitive even for graduates of American schools.
tantrum said:If you want to take the FP route in the US, you can still apply some of your Dermatology knowledge as a Family Practitioner. A lot of outpatients in primary care have skin problems. You can use it as your "interest" or "concentration" in your daily practice.
If you are torn go for the USMLE, you only stay in the Philippines for Dermatology if you think that's the only specialty for you. Cosmetic society is an informal group (dealing with cosmetic procedures) not the same thing as PSCM.islandchickie said:thanks tantrum! i really, really want to get into derma but i'm torn like everyone else between what i really want to do and the practicality of making more sacrifices in favor of a more stable future (m talking about the mle). that article gave me the additinal info i needed! but is PSCM same as the Cosmetic society thing?
There is hierarchy everywhere in Philippine society. I didn't mind it when I was a student (i was still naive) but in retrospect, senior doctors won't survive overseas if they have big egos. In fairness, their narrow-minded approach is unavoidable as they have bad role-models. The best attendings I had in the States were humble and approachable (they call you with your first names!). Until now I can still get wonderful LOR from them.hmmm...i'll give this a thought...i came from UST and frankly, though i know how good and very competent their programs are, i can not stand the heirarchy anymore. i understand that doctors coming from UST try to do the best they can to instill discipline in their students (i think i gained most of mine there) but coming from that school, sometimes its so hard to deal with old doctors and seniors with very big egos. i remember reading the article of Dr. Willie Ong also here in pinoy.md about trying to find a supportive senior mentor and that's how i feel sometimes about how most doctors from UST can be (specially when their within the UST grounds). I do not want to generalize really. Maybe I'm just unfortunate that i wasn't able to meet more doctors approachable enough to serve as mentors (though i must say, there must have been 1 of them who have managed to give me enough advice to give me guidance). OOOPs...sorry i think this should be on another thread... The point is I'm proud of my alma mater and the competency it teaches us as a doctor but i think as compassionate as they are for their patients, humility as colleagues is lacking... 🙁
When going for USMLE, don't take the attitude that you will fail. Always think positive. It is not a big gamble if you pass the USMLE. Once you pass Step 1, it's more ethical if you can just give your dermatology slot to someone else who really needs it. Step 1 is the most difficult part (our basic science training there is insufficient). I have not met anybody who passed all steps withour getting into residency. Those who fail either just gave up too early or did not use proper strategy in applying.if you don't mind, pls. share me your opinion of this sort of timeline i've created for myself.
June-aug. - study for step1 and apply for pre-res
Sept. - take step1 and start pre-res
Oct. - find out if i passed or failed step 1 and from there decide what my next step would be
hmm... so you think it's safer for me to continue on with residency (while studying for the MLE) rather than i risk all my time studying for the USMLE, the results of which can not assure me of a good outcome? sometimes this is how i think about it. i don't want to gamble it all out and end up with nothing by the time i'm 30. 😳
thanks again! can't believe forums really can be of help! 😉
tantrum said:There is hierarchy everywhere in Philippine society. I didn't mind it when I was a student (i was still naive) but in retrospect, senior doctors won't survive overseas if they have big egos. In fairness, their narrow-minded approach is unavoidable as they have bad role-models. The best attendings I had in the States were humble and approachable (they call you with your first names!). Until now I can still get wonderful LOR from them. .
