What are the best fellowships?

[DeadCactus]

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Obviously kind of a dumb question. I guess a better way to ask is "Which fellowships have the strongest practical benefits? (Employability, Pay, Lifestyle)" Or are they all a sham and just doing a 3 year EM residency the only practical decision?

 

[namethatsmell]

Obviously kind of a dumb question. I guess a better way to ask is "Which fellowships have the strongest practical benefits? (Employability, Pay, Lifestyle)" Or are they all a sham and just doing a 3 year EM residency the only practical decision?

Search the forum...lots of useful stuff already posted on this.

On my phone but briefly/generally IMHO:

It all depends on what you want...

Very few have the ability to fully take you out of the ED: the 4 most likely to do this are CC, sports, pain, palliative. Then there are a handful of opportunities for hyperbarics, tox, and EMS-trained folks that don't include ED time.

In terms of making you more marketable/employable--for academics they will all help. For community gigs most shops won't place too much of a premium on it with the exception of Peds fellowship ( though you'll likely get paid less) and ultrasound fellowship (since it brings the chance for the group to bill for scans).

In terms of pay: it will all depend on where you are going and the staffing needs situation. Your pay may stay the same, go up, sorta go up (ie in the form of shift reductions), or go down.

The reality is that when you get to the point of fellowship for EM it should really be about what interests you and what may allow you to be happier with your work. Do what you like.

 

[EMIM2011]

If it pains you that 80% of your patients would have had the same outcome regardless of whether they saw you in the ED or not, then do CCM.

 

[RustedFox]

Duhh.... In-N-Out Burger's "Fry Fellowship" is clearly the best.

 

[DeadCactus]

If it pains you that 80% of your patients would have had the same outcome regardless of whether they saw you in the ED or not, then do CCM.

ICU seems like it has the opposite problem, you change the outcome in 80% of patients and wonder why...

 

[Arcan57]

Do a fellowship if you have a burning interest in the field or you already find being the ED intolerable. Otherwise given the relative ease of moving into admin in most places, it doesn't make sense to spend the time and lost the income up front just for a minimal buy-down later. This may or may not hold up for academics, BTW.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Anyone know anything about Administrative Fellowships. I can't seem to find much here or on Google. Anyone on here ever complete one? Does it make you more marketable in the field? How do Administrative EM Docs structure their shifts/administration schedule? 1-2 shifts/week and administration 3-4 days/wk?

Thanks.

 

[Arcan57]

Anyone know anything about Administrative Fellowships. I can't seem to find much here or on Google. Anyone on here ever complete one? Does it make you more marketable in the field? How do Administrative EM Docs structure their shifts/administration schedule? 1-2 shifts/week and administration 3-4 days/wk?

Thanks.

Admin fellowships are probably overkill unless you're going for academics. There is a dearth of EPs interested in admin so getting an assistant directorship or even a directorship of a single site isn't usually difficult. The higher level admin spots are usually going to be better served with an MBA unless you're trying to become a system's quality director. Schedule is going to vary based on level of admin but may be anything from 1-2 days a week admin for a director of a single shop to 2-4 (or zero) shifts per month for a CMG regional president.

 

[RustedFox]

Anyone know anything about Administrative Fellowships. I can't seem to find much here or on Google. Anyone on here ever complete one? Does it make you more marketable in the field? How do Administrative EM Docs structure their shifts/administration schedule? 1-2 shifts/week and administration 3-4 days/wk?

Getting into this field with the intention of going 'admin' right out of the gate makes me cast a suspicious glance at you. You know how much we "pit docs" generally dislike admin types, right?

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Getting into this field with the intention of going 'admin' right out of the gate makes me cast a suspicious glance at you. You know how much we "pit docs" generally dislike admin types, right?

Ha, I see your point. I don't plan on advertising that position on my interviews either. First and foremost, I'm here to serve the patients. As much as I love seeing and treating patients, I enjoy solving problems, management theory, and maximizing efficiency just as much. I think I have a lot to offer in an administrative position after 10-15 years in the field. I figure that getting the MBA or doing the fellowship in my 20s would be easier than going back to school in my 30s-40s, though the sentiment from previous posters suggest it might not be necessary at all.

 

[RustedFox]

Ha, I see your point. I don't plan on advertising that position on my interviews either. First and foremost, I'm here to serve the patients. As much as I love seeing and treating patients, I enjoy solving problems, management theory, and maximizing efficiency just as much. I think I have a lot to offer in an administrative position after 10-15 years in the field. I figure that getting the MBA or doing the fellowship in my 20s would be easier than going back to school in my 30s-40s, though the sentiment from previous posters suggest it might not be necessary at all.

Gold star for taking criticism in a positive fashion on here.

I wish you the best. I've seen other "pit-docs-turned-admins", and they tend to just roll right on over and toe the party line once they don't feel the weight of a stethoscope around their neck anymore.

 

[shookwell]

Gold star for taking criticism in a positive fashion on here.

I wish you the best. I've seen other "pit-docs-turned-admins", and they tend to just roll right on over and toe the party line once they don't feel the weight of a stethoscope around their neck anymore.

Of the two jobs I was most considering when I finished residency, I chose the one that paid less because the administration was full of docs who still worked in the ED and genuinely cared about the patients while the other job's administration was more of a party line-work in the ED once a month to pretend they still were clinicians types.

 

[Birdstrike]

Gold star for taking criticism in a positive fashion on here.

I wish you the best. I've seen other "pit-docs-turned-admins", and they tend to just roll right on over and toe the party line once they don't feel the weight of a stethoscope around their neck anymore.

Right. Their job is to twist the n-----s of the pit docs to get them to do what admin wants, which in some cases can often be something distasteful, of questionable ethics, or pushed the limits of compromising patient care in the interest of hospital (not physician) revenue. Do you want to be that guy?

 

[Hercules]

Ha, I see your point. I don't plan on advertising that position on my interviews either. First and foremost, I'm here to serve the patients. As much as I love seeing and treating patients, I enjoy solving problems, management theory, and maximizing efficiency just as much. I think I have a lot to offer in an administrative position after 10-15 years in the field. I figure that getting the MBA or doing the fellowship in my 20s would be easier than going back to school in my 30s-40s, though the sentiment from previous posters suggest it might not be necessary at all.

I can't see an admin fellowship ever being a good use of time. If you want to spend a year to become more marketable in administrative roles, then go straight into community EM and do one of the physicians' executive MBAs. You'll get attending pay and attending experience while getting some extra letters after your name as well. As most have pointed out though you don't need an MBA or an admin fellowship to get into administrative roles unless you're looking at extremely large corporations and even then it's a plus but not a requirement.

 

[Cerberus]

Anyone know anything about Administrative Fellowships. I can't seem to find much here or on Google. Anyone on here ever complete one? Does it make you more marketable in the field? How do Administrative EM Docs structure their shifts/administration schedule? 1-2 shifts/week and administration 3-4 days/wk?

Thanks.

Unless it involves an MBA I really don't see the benefit. If you want to advance in Admin you need a degree that non Physicians understand.