What are the Less Competetive Areas of Specialization?

[delicious]

I'm thinking that ones like prostho or pedo might be a little less competetive than say oral surgery or orthodontics. Is this true, or are they all equally hard to get into? Anybody have any stats? Like do you need a national board I score of 90+ to get into prostho?

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[USAF_Dentman]

I'm thinking that ones like prostho or pedo might be a little less competetive than say oral surgery or orthodontics. Is this true, or are they all equally hard to get into? Anybody have any stats? Like do you need a national board I score of 90+ to get into prostho?

Just from what i've heard on these boards, proths is not that competitive as the other areas, as they take many international students to fill spots.

Also Dental Public Health doesnt seem to be super competitive.

Some may not be as hard to get into as others, but all still require decent GPAs and boards.

 

[12YearOldKid]

What are the less competitive areas of specialization?

The ones that pay the least.

 

[delicious]

The ones that pay the least.

I've heard differently, specifically about prostho.

 

[ip]

Just from what i've heard on these boards, proths is not that competitive as the other areas, as they take many international students to fill spots.

Also Dental Public Health doesnt seem to be super competitive.

Some may not be as hard to get into as others, but all still require decent GPAs and boards.

You definitely do not need a 90 to go into prosth. A pulse may get you an interview.

Seriously, prosth is a very easy specialty to go into because of the (mis)conception that a GP will do the same work that you do. The truth is that GP's will take every CE course they can find for 15 years to learn almost as much as what a prosth will know fresh out of school. Every GP strives for that prosth type practice but it will take years (decades?) to get to.

Prosth programs have a bad rep because of the focus on residents doing their own labwork but fewer programs stress that than in the past and even then it's usually just the 1st year or two.

From what I understand, pedo is fairly competitive.

 

[delicious]

Every GP strives for that prosth type practice but it will take years (decades?) to get to.

That's really interesting ip, thanks for the info. I think that prostho is a lot more lucrative than people think, and I feel it might be more rewarding than being an orthodontist treating rich kids (who would probably be fine without braces anyway).

 

[ip]

That's really interesting ip, thanks for the info. I think that prostho is a lot more lucrative than people think, and I feel it might be more rewarding than being an orthodontist treating rich kids (who would probably be fine without braces anyway).

It absolutely is lucrative. Old school prosths doing denture cases have led to the misconception that it's not. Current prosth grads are the only experts in full mouth rehabs, high end esthetics, and implant prosth. The problem is that GP's don't even have you on the radar for referral.

 

[Zurik5]

Perio?

 

[kato999]

here is my speculative hardest to easiest ranking of specialties to get an intervew.


1.endo w/o gpr, 2. ortho, 3. OMS, 4. endo w/gpr, 5.perio, 6. pedo, 7. prosth, 8. public health

this has no basis and purely to spark conversation.

 

[delicious]

The problem is that GP's don't even have you on the radar for referral.

Dammit!! Whenever I think I've got the perfect specialty in mind, something makes me doubt it. But maybe GP's views of prosthodontists will change in the near future, especially with all the old school baby boomers retiring soon.

Oh, and IMO dental public health is not a specialty!! When was the last time your GP recommended you to a public health dentists! LOL

 

[River13]

here is my speculative hardest to easiest ranking of specialties to get an intervew.


1.endo w/o gpr, 2. ortho, 3. OMS, 4. endo w/gpr, 5.perio, 6. pedo, 7. prosth, 8. public health

this has no basis and purely to spark conversation.

I agree with the list, except I would switch perio and pedo...I think pedo is more competitive.

 

[toofache32]

here is my speculative hardest to easiest ranking of specialties to get an intervew.


1.endo w/o gpr, 2. ortho, 3. OMS, 4. endo w/gpr, 5.perio, 6. pedo, 7. prosth, 8. public health

this has no basis and purely to spark conversation.

I also agree, but I also don't have any facts to back it up.

 

[DcS]

I agree with the list, except I would switch perio and pedo...I think pedo is more competitive.

I agree as well if you swap pedo and perio.

 

[UPSY1]

What about oral pathology? How hard is to get in???????

 

[Omahahahaha]

Oh, and IMO dental public health is not a specialty!! When was the last time your GP recommended you to a public health dentists! LOL

I think you'll find that the ADA disagrees with you. It is one of the eight recognized specialties. And dentists don't commonly refer to public health dentists, they are more involved in community information and policy.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I agree with the list, except I would switch perio and pedo...I think pedo is more competitive.

Absolutely. Pedo is tough these days. As I posted before, somebody PMed me and wanted me to pass on the info that they had a 92 on Part I, 3.7+ GPA, were class president 4 years, research and published, and had 3 interviews from the 7 pedo spots they applied to.

 

[ItsGavinC]

What about oral pathology? How hard is to get in???????

I don't know, and think only those who are in programs actually know. There are so few programs that it's tough to get a feel for it.

 

[KY2007]

Pedo is more competitive than perio. A lot of perio programs have an applicant/acceptance ration of 15/1 or less (many are 5/1). Pedo is around 20/1 or 30/1 for a lot of programs. If you go to their websites, and find the training programs you will see what I mean. Try American Academy of Pediatric Dentists for pedo and American Academy of Periodontists for perio.

 

[northcity]

It all depends on what school's you apply to, the ones that go through the match are different than perio, pros, and endo. Endo is very hard to get into w/ o a gpr, perio and pedo(uses match) are both pretty hard to get into depending on the program, some programs are not very good therefore are easier to get into. I think it all depends on who's applying in a given year for a particular specialty. Some specialties are "hotter" on diff. years.

 

[dudelove]

Pros is competitive if you are applying to the few programs that are free and you receive a stiped in.

 

[delicious]

Pros is competitive if you are applying to the few programs that are free and you receive a stiped in.

Whoa!!! Tell me more!!! I'm interested in prostho. Which schools are these?! 😀

 

[simpledoc]

i agree with dudelove and ip, pros is competitive like any other specialty in GOOD SCHOOLS (by which i mean, from an applicant's point of view: REPUTATION+ LESS FEES+STIPEND+LESS LABWORK) these kind of programs are few in the states and admission to these are pretty competitive as everyone interested in pros wants to get at these places.
and for ip's millon dollar words about a gp's dream to have a pros type of a practice! i salute you for that! the whole thing about pros work is that, it is the daily bread and butter of any general dentist, and they would hate to part with it for referrals! a prosthodontist is the only specialist these days who does not make his money on referrals (like an OS or an endo or an ortho guy); however,the main junk of money for a pros guy comes by taking up those daring full mouth rehab cases, high end esthetics, implants (ps: most prosthodontists place their own implants these days) which a GP would always do it with much less precision and confidence!
ps: am gonna be a prosthodontist soon🙂

 

[delicious]

i agree with dudelove and ip, pros is competitive like any other specialty in GOOD SCHOOLS (by which i mean, from an applicant's point of view: REPUTATION+ LESS FEES+STIPEND+LESS LABWORK) these kind of programs are few in the states and admission to these are pretty competitive as everyone interested in pros wants to get at these places.
and for ip's millon dollar words about a gp's dream to have a pros type of a practice! i salute you for that! the whole thing about pros work is that, it is the daily bread and butter of any general dentist, and they would hate to part with it for referrals! a prosthodontist is the only specialist these days who does not make his money on referrals (like an OS or an endo or an ortho guy); however,the main junk of money for a pros guy comes by taking up those daring full mouth rehab cases, high end esthetics, implants (ps: most prosthodontists place their own implants these days) which a GP would always do it with much less precision and confidence!
ps: am gonna be a prosthodontist soon🙂

hmm....so do prosthodontists make a lot of money, or what? I'm confused. You're saying that prosthodontists don't get a lot of referrals from GPs?

 

[Jediwendell]

hmm....so do prosthodontists make a lot of money, or what? I'm confused. You're saying that prosthodontists don't get a lot of referrals from GPs?

You are only limited by patient population and how fast you can do veneers........Prosthodontists will make a lot of money in the right area. You just can't set up shop in BFE and expect to make it. You have to be in a bigger area with money. They probably don't get a ton of referrals from GPs. At least the ones I do don't.

 

[antidentite]

i would agree with the rankings listed with the exception of where ortho is at. if ortho interviews include OEC interviews than this should knock down the ranking quite a bit - judging from stats posted here and from people I know who have been granted interviews from the colorado program - there seems to be quite a discrepency in the minimum credentials needed in order to get an interview. Or you could rank it as below....which introduces a second category for ortho being the OEC route. If you agree with this ranking given, just interested in thoughts on how this can not lead to a distinction between OEC orthodontists and those orthos who have paid their dues through the traditional system.

1.endo w/o gpr, 2. ortho, 3. OMS, 4. endo w/gpr, 5.perio, 6. pedo, 7. prosth, 8. public health 9. ortho OEC route

here is my speculative hardest to easiest ranking of specialties to get an intervew.


1.endo w/o gpr, 2. ortho, 3. OMS, 4. endo w/gpr, 5.perio, 6. pedo, 7. prosth, 8. public health

this has no basis and purely to spark conversation.

 

[dudelove]

Whoa!!! Tell me more!!! I'm interested in prostho. Which schools are these?! 😀

You can check things out at prosthodontics.org

I know that UCLA, VA West LA, VA in NY and VA in texas offer tuition plus atleast 38k a year, health insurance and 403b. There are a few others I believe like Mayo. Not bad. Of course these are quite competitive to get into.

 

[delicious]

You can check things out at prosthodontics.org

I know that UCLA, VA West LA, VA in NY and VA in texas offer tuition plus atleast 38k a year, health insurance and 403b. There are a few others I believe like Mayo. Not bad. Of course these are quite competitive to get into.

Wow, thanks dudelove! I was just flipping through the different programs on the website, and found that a lot have TOEFL score requirements. Guess that's cause it's not competetive to get into, and they need international people to fill the positions like some have said earlier.

But I checked out MAYO and oh my god!!! Jebus!! Could you imagine being paid that much money to get a degree, and go to school at the Mayo Clinic!!!
That must be the holy grail of prosthodontic programs. 😍

I was saddened to see that a lot of the programs required a GPR. That sucks IMO! ! 😡

 

[ip]

Wow, thanks dudelove! I was just flipping through the different programs on the website, and found that a lot have TOEFL score requirements. Guess that's cause it's not competetive to get into, and they need international people to fill the positions like some have said earlier.

But I checked out MAYO and oh my god!!! Jebus!! Could you imagine being paid that much money to get a degree, and go to school at the Mayo Clinic!!!
That must be the holy grail of prosthodontic programs. 😍

I was saddened to see that a lot of the programs required a GPR. That sucks IMO! ! 😡

The downside to Mayo is that it's in Rochester, NY. At least there would be plenty time for reading the literature. 😀

Really, I think that prosth is a great career choice and extremely underrated (and undervalued) by GP's. Other specialists appreciate them b/c they see fist hand what they can do in post-grad.

Someone here mentioned that most prosth's place their own implants. That's not quite true, I'd guess it's around 5%. What is true is that most prosth prograns are teaching basic implant placement and residents will place ~10. So, in 15-20 years then maybe most will be placing their own implants in simple cases.

 

[Jediwendell]

The downside to Mayo is that it's in Rochester, NY. At least there would be plenty time for reading the literature. 😀

Really, I think that prosth is a great career choice and extremely underrated (and undervalued) by GP's. Other specialists appreciate them b/c they see fist hand what they can do in post-grad.

Someone here mentioned that most prosth's place their own implants. That's not quite true, I'd guess it's around 5%. What is true is that most prosth prograns are teaching basic implant placement and residents will place ~10. So, in 15-20 years then maybe most will be placing their own implants in simple cases.

Actually, Mayo is in Rochester MINNESOTA, which is infinitely worse than Rochester NY.

 

[kato999]

Mayo Clinic is in Rochester, MN. That is worse. It's like the excitement of Iowa with the weather of Minnesota.

 

[delicious]

The downside to Mayo is that it's in Rochester, NY. At least there would be plenty time for reading the literature. 😀

Really, I think that prosth is a great career choice and extremely underrated (and undervalued) by GP's. Other specialists appreciate them b/c they see fist hand what they can do in post-grad.

Someone here mentioned that most prosth's place their own implants. That's not quite true, I'd guess it's around 5%. What is true is that most prosth prograns are teaching basic implant placement and residents will place ~10. So, in 15-20 years then maybe most will be placing their own implants in simple cases.

Yeah, in Rochester NY there's the Eastman school which has a bunch of specialty programs but no dds/dmd program. Rochester NY isn't that bad - I've passed through there a couple of times and it seemed pretty nice. There's a bunch of fortune 500 companies headquartered there. If that means anything to you.

Rochester, MN - Never even been to MN, so I don't know. But I imagine it would be pretty well in the middle of nowhere. But who cares, the MAYO CLINIC is a ridiculously good medical center.

 

[delicious]

The downside to Mayo is that it's in Rochester, NY. At least there would be plenty time for reading the literature. 😀

Really, I think that prosth is a great career choice and extremely underrated (and undervalued) by GP's. Other specialists appreciate them b/c they see fist hand what they can do in post-grad.

Someone here mentioned that most prosth's place their own implants. That's not quite true, I'd guess it's around 5%. What is true is that most prosth prograns are teaching basic implant placement and residents will place ~10. So, in 15-20 years then maybe most will be placing their own implants in simple cases.

Oh, and as for the implants. If you go to the website, and look at the program descriptions; most say that becoming proficient at doing implants is a major goal. Maybe that's a new development, I dunno. I think that's pretty cool. Screw those oral surgeons!!! 😡 (jk)

 

[ip]

Mayo Clinic is in Rochester, MN. That is worse. It's like the excitement of Iowa with the weather of Minnesota.

Yeah, my mistake. I realized what I wrote a couple hours later.

 

[delicious]

I stumbled upon these stats for prosth at VCU. Pretty good in my opinion.

First year resident $20,000
Second year resident $22,000
Third year resident $24,000

Uh, so here's my question. I'm definetly a newbie when it comes to specialty stuff. Do programs like ortho, endo, etc. also have schools that give you a stipend (pay, i.e. above)?

 

[gryffindor]

Yeah, in Rochester NY there's the Eastman school which has a bunch of specialty programs but no dds/dmd program. Rochester NY isn't that bad - I've passed through there a couple of times and it seemed pretty nice. There's a bunch of fortune 500 companies headquartered there. If that means anything to you.

The prostho program at Eastman/Univ. of Rochester in Rochester, NY also pays a stipend.

 

[Energon]

I dont know if Oral medicine is a specialty, I know my school has an oral medicine fellowship which is very easy to sequester a spot in.

I think Pedo in the coming years is going to get extremely competitive, just due to the demand/supply related salary inflation.

I know three pros residents from our institution graduating this year who plan to be general dentists who pretty much dont refer anything out... basically super dentists.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I stumbled upon these stats for prosth at VCU. Pretty good in my opinion.

First year resident $20,000
Second year resident $22,000
Third year resident $24,000

Wow, I think those stipends are horrible. At least 10k below what they ought to be.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I dont know if Oral medicine is a specialty, I know my school has an oral medicine fellowship which is very easy to sequester a spot in.

Oral Path is a specialty, and the programs are extremely limited.

 

[toofache32]

Wow, I think those stipends are horrible. At least 10k below what they ought to be.

You have to judge stipends by where you are. For example, $35,000 in the South is not too bad, but the same job may pay $45,000 in NYC. You're better off taking the $35,000 because $45,000 is nothing in the NYC cost of living.

 

[gryffindor]

You have to judge stipends by where you are. For example, $35,000 in the South is not too bad, but the same job may pay $45,000 in NYC. You're better off taking the $35,000 because $45,000 is nothing in the NYC cost of living.

You can live on $45,000 in NYC. But you can't live like you would on $45,000 in the south. It all depends on where in NYC you live to see what your rent will be like. If you don't have a car, it's definitely doable. I was so sick of hearing "Don't go to NYC. It's too expensive" for 4 years in dental school and I seem to be doing OK so far.

But those stipends from VCU don't sound so bad. It's better to get a stipend, any stipend, for a residency program than to have to pay a huge amount of tuition and not get any stipend.

 

[delicious]

Wow, I think those stipends are horrible. At least 10k below what they ought to be.

Pretty good in that you're not paying $40,000 in tuition like some schools. So, $20,000 - (-$40,000) = $60,000. You're ahead 60 grand over some other schools like harvard where there is no stipend I believe.

 

[delicious]

Pretty good in that you're not paying $40,000 in tuition like some schools. So, $20,000 - (-$40,000) = $60,000. You're ahead 60 grand over some other schools like harvard where there is no stipend I believe.

Oh yeah, and I have yet to find a nyc prostho program that pays a stipend. Can't find info on the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center though. I can't find any prostho page on their website at all!!! 😡 😡

 

[UABDentist]

I dont know if Oral medicine is a specialty, I know my school has an oral medicine fellowship which is very easy to sequester a spot in.

I think Pedo in the coming years is going to get extremely competitive, just due to the demand/supply related salary inflation.

I know three pros residents from our institution graduating this year who plan to be general dentists who pretty much dont refer anything out... basically super dentists.

Oral medicine is definately a Speciality...and there are a bunch of schools which offer that..
LSU has a 36,000$ stipend per year for 2 years...

 

[gryffindor]

Oh yeah, and I have yet to find a nyc prostho program that pays a stipend. Can't find info on the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center though. I can't find any prostho page on their website at all!!! 😡 😡

Try the Manhattan VA.

Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center - I don't think they have a prostho residency, but the GPRs at Cornell Medical Center have a rotation where I think they provide the dental care over there.

 

[jiggy]

Oral medicine is definately a Speciality...and there are a bunch of schools which offer that..
LSU has a 36,000$ stipend per year for 2 years...

There are 9 ADA recognized specialties, and Oral Medicine is not one of them. The 9 are: ortho, perio, pedo, prosth, surgery, endo, radiology, pathology, dental public health. You can do Oral Medicine fellowships or Orofacial Pain fellowships, and Special Care fellowships, but they are not recognized specialties by the ADA.

 

[delicious]

Do specialty programs at state-supported schools like UCLA, UMichigan look preferentially upon applicants who are from their respective states? I know that for dds/dmd programs that is the case; like it's really tough to get into UCLA if you're not a california resident. Or is it more egalitarian when applying to specialties?

Let's say that hypothetically I'm from Maine. Hypothetically!! 🙂 Would it be near impossible for me to get into UCLA's prostho or ortho program? Again, I'm being completely hypothetical here. I could in fact not live in maine.

 

[dudelove]

No it doesn't seem to matter.

Do specialty programs at state-supported schools like UCLA, UMichigan look preferentially upon applicants who are from their respective states? I know that for dds/dmd programs that is the case; like it's really tough to get into UCLA if you're not a california resident. Or is it more egalitarian when applying to specialties?

Let's say that hypothetically I'm from Maine. Hypothetically!! 🙂 Would it be near impossible for me to get into UCLA's prostho or ortho program? Again, I'm being completely hypothetical here. I could in fact not live in maine.

 

[GQ1]

hmm....so do prosthodontists make a lot of money, or what? I'm confused. You're saying that prosthodontists don't get a lot of referrals from GPs?

i would agree pros was until recently pretty easy to get an interview but from acp - american college of prosthodontists the competion per place is increasing with more us grads and less internationals. its overtaken perio per place in a few schools

i have the old ada figures 1999-2000, whilst oms was the national highest earner pros was the highest earner in the mid atlantic region 213k - i only know this as this is what affects me. i think the west coast is a different story with endo 230k and oms the top 238k. gdps 147k nationally. again these are old perhaps some one could supply us with 2004 that ada released

 

[Yah-E]

I dont know if Oral medicine is a specialty, I know my school has an oral medicine fellowship which is very easy to sequester a spot in.

Oral Path is a specialty, and the programs are extremely limited.

G-Man: Point of clarification, Oral Medicine is not the same thing as Oral Pathology.

I also believe that Pedo is much more competitive than Perio. Perio often will accept candidates with mid to low 80s on Part 1 scores. When we speak about competitiveness of dental specialties, we are speaking in a general sense and not specific residencies. Therefor, in generally speaking, Prosthodontics are very easy to get into if you just want to become a prosthodontist and don't care where you go.

For OMFS, Endo, and traditionally for Ortho, no matter where you apply, it will be competitive! There is no one residency where it's easier to get into. Of course now there are these Ortho factories, but that is whole another discussion.

My dental residency ranking list in regards to their competitiveness to get into:

Traditional Ortho spots
Endo
OMFS (4- or 6-year residencies, don't matter)
Pedo
Perio
Prostho

All of the following are also easy to get into if you want it: (all are not recognized by ADA as a dental specialty yet unless specified)

Dental Anesthesiology
Oral Medicine
Oral & Maxillofacial Pathology ADA recognized in May 1991)
Oral & Maxillofacial Radiology (ADA recognized in April 2001)
Dental Public Health (ADA recognized in May 1976)
Oral & Maxillofacial Prosthodontics
General Practice Residencies (GPRs)
Advanced Education General Dentistry (AEGD)

 

[delicious]

What does a dental anesthesiologist do? Is that just an academic position?
I've seen on some group endo practices that they have anesthesiologists come in, but they are MD anesthesiologists.