What are the most unique psychiatry jobs out there (i.e. CIA, FBI)?

[woof_iamadog]

There's been a few threads like this based on previous searches, but I figured it's been a while and people may have new information. So, as the title implies, what are the most unique psychiatry jobs out there? I'm interested in anything you can do after finishing a psychiatry residency - i.e clinical psychiatry in a non-traditional setting, or non-clinical psychiatry.

Just FYI I am interested in probably being a regular psychiatrist one day (in med school currently), and possibly joining the military for combat psych, but I'm just asking this for fun. I also have a bit of an adventurous spirit, so I'm curious about wild opportunities.

One specific as mentioned in the title:
- FBI / CIA psychiatrist: are these pretty much psychiatrist positions where you exclusively see FBI / CIA agents and/or help with interviews to figure out who would be a good candidate? Is there an opportunity for analyst type work (i.e. criminal profiling, psychological profiling of world leaders, etc)?

So what's out there, if anything?

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[MBBSMOM]

Evaluating who is a good candidate for hiring in the CIA/FBI is the job of clinical psychologists. As a psychiatrist who works for the FBI/CIA your main role is treating employees of the CIA/FBI who have mental illness. Also most "profilers' are FBI agents and not psychiatrists or psychologists.

 

[downwithDTB]

Evaluating who is a good candidate for hiring in the CIA/FBI is the job of clinical psychologists. As a psychiatrist who works for the FBI/CIA your main role is treating employees of the CIA/FBI who have mental illness. Also most "profilers' are FBI agents and not psychiatrists or psychologists.

That ∆.

The CIA definitely recruits psychiatists to treat embassy members overseas but I highly doubt they'd waste them on being field operatives. Way too expensive.

The FBI would love to have you but starting special agent pay was something like $60k last time I checked and their was no bonus for being a licensed person (lawyer, phsyician, psychologist, ect.).

I have never heard of someone with a real life job similar to George Huang. Clarice didn't do residency, but I imagine that almost no one takes on med school debt to work as a special agent and certainly wouldn't bother with residency if this was your goal.

It's not matter of these cool jobs being ultra competitive, they simply don't exist any more than being a psychiatist plumber does...

The closest thing maybe would be joining the public health service as a coast guard doctor; they let you be an officer and do some regular coast guard missions (i.e. not practicing medicine per se) if law enforcement is your schtick and you accidentally went to med school instead of cadet school. Don't know if they need psychiatists though, so you might end up working as a GP.

 

[TexasPhysician]

IHS - Want to live in a small rural city but don’t think the population can support it? This could be your answer and last I checked, you are eligible for a pension after 3 years.

military contractor - could work at an overseas base without the risk of deployment. Pay is brtter

ICE: usually fairly rural locations. Unique population. Spanish preferred.

high end addiction center - work on a beautiful campus with great amenities.

psychiatrist for an undergrad - some will provide discounted or free tuition to your children/spouse. Young population with few co-morbidities.

 

[NickNaylor]

One of our faculty worked in the Department of State for about 20 years - essentially lived abroad and provided psychiatric services for diplomatic staff in regions of the world. A lot of the work was telepsychiatry since he would be responsible for large regions that included multiple countries. I imagine that the pay is lower than what you would get even in academic settings, but he was able to live all over the world and, with many costs included in benefits (e.g., housing) as well as opportunities for increases to the base depending on where you work and what kind of work you do, the lower salary actually isn’t all that bad. He really enjoyed it.

 

[Mass Effect]

psychiatrist for an undergrad - some will provide discounted or free tuition to your children/spouse. Young population with few co-morbidities.

I always wondered how one gets on the college mental health track after residency. If I was interested in doing this, how would I even get started? Where are jobs like this advertised or is it word of mouth?

 

[PsyDr]

The 3 letter agencies don't use psychiatrists or psychologist how you think. It is much more of a treating position, than not. Much of the analyst work is down to data science stuff. Be prepared for an extensive background search, polygraph with hilarious questions, etc. They do NOT have a sense of humor.

The FBI's behavioral analysis unit and their Canadian brethren do not employ a ton of psychologists or psychiatrists. They use their own agents, and have their own methodology. They do keep some experts on retainer. It does not pay well.

Profiling of known individuals, such as foreign leaders, is not typically performed by psychiatrists or psychologists. Think machine learning, think pattern recognition and predictive algorithms using data sources. You can reason this out. Would you want your opinions to be based upon a few million data points including HOW/WHEN one searches stuff on the internet including their staff's searches, correlated with day/month/year, correlated with international events, correlated with known family events, correlated with 50 other things, using known set limits, back-tested to identify potential loopholes, with probabilities of potential outcomes listed? Or would you like the opinion of a psychologist/psychiatrist who is basing their opinions on OCEAN and other personality factors?

 

[LasVagus]

The 3 letter agencies don't use psychiatrists or psychologist how you think. It is much more of a treating position, than not. Much of the analyst work is down to data science stuff. Be prepared for an extensive background search, polygraph with hilarious questions, etc. They do NOT have a sense of humor.

The FBI's behavioral analysis unit and their Canadian brethren do not employ a ton of psychologists or psychiatrists. They use their own agents, and have their own methodology. They do keep some experts on retainer. It does not pay well.

Profiling of known individuals, such as foreign leaders, is not typically performed by psychiatrists or psychologists. Think machine learning, think pattern recognition and predictive algorithms using data sources. You can reason this out. Would you want your opinions to be based upon a few million data points including HOW/WHEN one searches stuff on the internet including their staff's searches, correlated with day/month/year, correlated with international events, correlated with known family events, correlated with 50 other things, using known set limits, back-tested to identify potential loopholes, with probabilities of potential outcomes listed? Or would you like the opinion of a psychologist/psychiatrist who is basing their opinions on OCEAN and other personality factors?

I don't know why, but the way you wrote "they do NOT have a sense of humor" made me laugh the hardest I have in years of reading posts here!

 

[Extralong]

Psychiatrist — Central Intelligence Agency

CIA Psychiatrists provide medical care and advice to Agency employees, dependents and other Agency sponsored people. Utilizing your medical expertise in a consultative model, you will help advance the CIA mission where it intersects with psychiatric and broader behavioral issues. Variability of...

www.cia.gov

 

[Extralong]

CIA is about 100-150k less then average

 

[deleted343839]

I always wondered how one gets on the college mental health track after residency. If I was interested in doing this, how would I even get started? Where are jobs like this advertised or is it word of mouth?

Those positions are advertised. Beyond experience with the age group and common presenting problems (mood and anxiety disorders, substance use disorders, ADHD, trauma, emerging psychosis, crisis intervention, etc.), college counseling and mental health centers are looking for fit with the mission, playing well with multidisciplinary staff, etc. Typical titles are "staff psychiatrist" and the like, usually housed administratively in offices of student services. The base pay tends to be below average (e.g., <$200K). Benefits depend on the institution, whether it's part of a larger state system, etc.

If you love working with the population, I would look into the alternative of opening a practice within walking distance of a university.

 

[dl2dp2]

psychodynamic management consulting

Boswell Group | Psychodynamic Management Consulting

boswellgroup.com

frankly most of the govt jobs in psychiatry aren't great, except for research/policy-focused jobs which can be interesting, but those are just a branch off your typical gunner jobs (academia, management, high-end practice).

 

[dl2dp2]

I always wondered how one gets on the college mental health track after residency. If I was interested in doing this, how would I even get started? Where are jobs like this advertised or is it word of mouth?

This is trivially easy. Typically wherever there is a decent-sized college there's a mental health program, and very commonly said program has a vacancy for a full time staff psychiatrist. You call the director of the program and ask.

They don't bother advertising (sometimes they do, often they don't) because advertising gets no candidates and is a waste of money.

Be aware however: salary is low--never enough budget for a job of this type. kids are also sick and demanding, and your schedule is very tight typically mostly med mgmt appts. People I know who go into this line of work don't stay for long. They also usually don't hire MDs to direct these services, because they can't afford an MD admin, so these jobs are not entirely MD friendly.