What are you going to do if you don't make it?

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Always have a contingency plan; life favors the prepared.

Perhaps, but at least in my experience, confidence is an integral component of the equation for success in any endeavor. In my opinion, a confident person will outstrip the successes of his equally-prepared, less confident colleagues. Belief in one's ability is crucial, and I guess for me, planning for my failure is less fruitful than putting efforts toward my success.

This aren't just my own beliefs though. They're fairly heavily supported psychologically and sociologically, as I understand.

If you were instead to imply that contingency plans do not affect confidence as it applies to success, then we'd have a debate on our hands.

Edit: To use an anecdote, my dad is living proof that planning for success, and not failure, can be powerful. He went to London from his dirt-poor conditions in India, making plans to go to America and eventually start a business. He harassed the U.S. Embassy to get a student visa to study at an American university, and finally succeeded after several successive rejections. He had no contingency plan when he went to London, spent all his money going there, and ultimately would have been completely screwed if his plans fell through. But because of a strong belief in self, and because having no contingency plan may have made him work harder, he succeeded. All of his dreams came true. He's now my idol and basically the poster boy for the American dream.

 

[ion]

If you want to be a doctor, give it a go and see what happens! If you never tried there's always the what if factor...

Very well put...
In other words.
You can't win the lotto if you don't play.

Exactly!

 

[SteinUmStein]

Perhaps, but at least in my experience, confidence is an integral component of the equation for success in any endeavor. In my opinion, a confident person will outstrip the successes of his equally-prepared, less confident colleagues. Belief in one's ability is crucial, and I guess for me, planning for my failure is less fruitful than putting efforts toward my success.

This aren't just my own beliefs though. They're fairly heavily supported psychologically and sociologically, as I understand.

If you were instead to imply that contingency plans do not affect confidence as it applies to success, then we'd have a debate on our hands.

Edit: To use an anecdote, my dad is living proof that planning for success, and not failure, can be powerful. He went to London from his dirt-poor conditions in India, making plans to go to America and eventually start a business. He harassed the U.S. Embassy to get a student visa to study at an American university, and finally succeeded after several successive rejections. He had no contingency plan when he went to London, spent all his money going there, and ultimately would have been completely screwed if his plans fell through. But because of a strong belief in self, and because having no contingency plan may have made him work harder, he succeeded. All of his dreams came true. He's now my idol and basically the poster boy for the American dream.

If you're applying to more than one school (your #1 dream school), then you're disagreeing with your own claims. Because if you dream it and want it bad enough, and have enough confidence, you will get in, right?

 

[supergumbo]

If you're applying to more than one school (your #1 dream school), then you're disagreeing with your own claims. Because if you dream it and want it bad enough, and have enough confidence, you will get in, right?

Except his goal is to become a doctor, not become an alum for a dream school.

 

[plaz]

Your mom.

Thanks for the opening. I can't believe it took me almost a week to respond 😛

Um... I never posted that...?

 

[SirGecko]

If you were instead to imply that contingency plans do not affect confidence as it applies to success, then we'd have a debate on our hands.

Contingency planning has no effect on confidence. If you feel you have to burn the ships when you get to the new world you never had the loyalty of your men in the first place. (if you have to have no other options to be confident you were never confident in the first place) Contingency planning is just a smart thing to do.

 

[Van Chowder]

I personally find a great deal of hypocrisy in this. You yourself feel you have a better chance to get into an MD school due to your URM status (not due to merit), yet you attack DO students for not being able to get into MD schools (due to their supposed lack of merit). A 3.4 GPA is about average for incoming DO students. So what makes you so much better than any DO student? Chuck the arrogance and learn some humility; it would be greatly becoming.

Hmm, seems like it would be hypocritical if I were getting a 3.4, which Im not ( more like a 3.8 ) granted I still have to take organic chemistry and second semester calc for remaining prereqs.
While it may not be (100%) fair, there is a reason why URMs have a bit of an easier time getting into medical school ( Im not saying I agree with that/those reason(s)). But regardless, that is the way it is, so humility or not, suck it up, if you cant handle the truth, go elsewhere. This forum is not going to sugar coat reality for you.

Also I would like to point out that, I have no problem with DO's, none what so ever. I should have said why I felt that way,being that I set reallly high standards for myself and I feel if I couldnt even get into an MD school (as a URM), I have failed, and should take a step back to reevaluate my career choice.

My fathers comment was not said to attack anyone, but it does go to show that at least with the previous generation of physicians, there is still in fact a stigma against Osteopathic Physicians, but hopefully our generation can change that.

Have a good one everyone!

Edit: By the way rkaz, you seem a bit insecure as you insinuated a lot from my post, in a very negative way. You clearly have some resentment towards someone or something.

LOL.

If you've ever read an AA thread on SDN, that quote of yours would be teared apart. Ironically, it is in the same paragraph stating your father is an MD (which to me, is an advantage in this process). That also leads me to believe you aren't so bad off socio-economically.

Also, I find it funny if you don't get the MD, you'd rather not be a physician. It seems that lately, people have replaced the word "physician" with "MD", which is fine because it's true. But it takes away from the fact that "DO" is the same as "physician", as well.

Again, I am aware of this, however you can look for yourself on MDApplicants.com and then tell me URMs do not have an easier time getting in ( I am well aware of the fact that MDapplicants does not fully represent the premedical community).
And you can believe what you want in terms of my socioeconomic status, but clearly you have not been kept up to date about how much money physicians are ( or are not making ) and given other circumstances it is still very possible to be a URM with a physician father.

 

[BigChubbyMD]

Contingency planning has no effect on confidence. If you feel you have to burn the ships when you get to the new world you never had the loyalty of your men in the first place. (if you have to have no other options to be confident you were never confident in the first place) Contingency planning is just a smart thing to do.

I agree, it never hurts to be prepared and that preparation says nothing about your confidence. Also it is a good idea to have something to say if you get asked what you are planning to do if you don't get in while interviewing.

 

[SteinUmStein]

Except his goal is to become a doctor, not become an alum for a dream school.

I'm just pointing out how silly it is to say that one must become a doctor, and have no other contingency plans, when there are so many other health professions that apply the sciences to help people who are sick and suffering.

To say that one must become a doctor or quit and never look back is as dumb as saying a person must get into their dream school or quit and never look back. Neither one makes any sense.

 

[Ignition]

Perhaps, but at least in my experience, confidence is an integral component of the equation for success in any endeavor. In my opinion, a confident person will outstrip the successes of his equally-prepared, less confident colleagues. Belief in one's ability is crucial, and I guess for me, planning for my failure is less fruitful than putting efforts toward my success.

This aren't just my own beliefs though. They're fairly heavily supported psychologically and sociologically, as I understand.

If you were instead to imply that contingency plans do not affect confidence as it applies to success, then we'd have a debate on our hands.

Edit: To use an anecdote, my dad is living proof that planning for success, and not failure, can be powerful. He went to London from his dirt-poor conditions in India, making plans to go to America and eventually start a business. He harassed the U.S. Embassy to get a student visa to study at an American university, and finally succeeded after several successive rejections. He had no contingency plan when he went to London, spent all his money going there, and ultimately would have been completely screwed if his plans fell through. But because of a strong belief in self, and because having no contingency plan may have made him work harder, he succeeded. All of his dreams came true. He's now my idol and basically the poster boy for the American dream.

Because there sometimes are factors outside of one's control, it is possible to remain confident with one's own decisions/actions and yet still have a backup plan in case those uncontrollable factors affect the outcome negatively.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

Hmm, seems like it would be hypocritical if I were getting a 3.4, which Im not ( more like a 3.8 ) granted I still have to take organic chemistry and second semester calc for remaining prereqs.
While it may not be (100%) fair, there is a reason why URMs have a bit of an easier time getting into medical school ( Im not saying I agree with that/those reason(s)). But regardless, that is the way it is, so humility or not, suck it up, if you cant handle the truth, go elsewhere. This forum is not going to sugar coat reality for you.

Also I would like to point out that, I have no problem with DO's, none what so ever. I should have said why I felt that way,being that I set reallly high standards for myself and I feel if I couldnt even get into an MD school (as a URM), I have failed, and should take a step back to reevaluate my career choice.

My fathers comment was not said to attack anyone, but it does go to show that at least with the previous generation of physicians, there is still in fact a stigma against Osteopathic Physicians, but hopefully our generation can change that.

Have a good one everyone!

Edit: By the way rkaz, you seem a bit insecure as you insinuated a lot from my post, in a very negative way. You clearly have some resentment towards someone or something.



Again, I am aware of this, however you can look for yourself on MDApplicants.com and then tell me URMs do not have an easier time getting in ( I am well aware of the fact that MDapplicants does not fully represent the premedical community).
And you can believe what you want in terms of my socioeconomic status, but clearly you have not been kept up to date about how much money physicians are ( or are not making ) and given other circumstances it is still very possible to be a URM with a physician father.

You wreak of arrogance. Humility is not something you should just show on this forum, but in life.

And, to clear things up, I wasn't saying it is impossible to be URM and have a physician father. That makes no sense, since there are TONS of URM doctors out there. I'm sure they have kids. What I was saying was it's not probable that you can be socio-economically disadvantaged and have a physician father. I don't know what planet you are on, but if you think that physicians aren't still earning a comfortable (maybe not so lavish anymore) living, then you are delusional. You do realize the average salary of Americans is around 50,000, right?

Man, some people on SDN have no concept of the world around them.

 

[Trexate]

Fortune favors the bold!

If this whole medicine thing doesn't work out, I'm going to become a janitor at MIT. Then me and Robin Williams can hang out and talk about our feelings.

hopefuldoc: Quail Man and Quail Dog rule.

 

[Quantum Mecha]

On the one hand you stated

I really, honestly cannot imagine doing anything else than going to medical school and becoming a physician.

On the other hand you stated that

I wouldn't even bother going the DO route as the effort isn't worth the constant questioning and minimizing people will do when they see the D.O after my name. Am I going into it for the recognition? No, but I don't want to live a life of being questioned about my degree.

If the only thing you want to do is be a doctor, who cares about the letters after your name? Many foreign physicians come to the US with degrees such as "M.B.B.S.", but they have no problem in the US provided they pass the board exams. You know that you are a doctor, that is all that should matter. I quote another SDN member for support:

It did not matter to me whether I was a DO or MD. Just wanted to be a doctor.

Plus as time goes on, I would imagine that DO's will become more common.

Just my $0.02; I personally don't care about DO or MD

 

[Kramerica]

Too much Seinfeld, my friend. Too much.

You can never have too much Seinfeld. I just started watching the DVDs (before I only watched it occasionally when it was on TV), the show is golden and a solid #3 behind LOST and The Office.

 

[Quantum Mecha]

I just realized that you started the "Why D.O.?" thread......lol...

 

[Quantum Mecha]

You can never have too much Seinfeld. I just started watching the DVDs (before I only watched it occasionally when it was on TV)

Good show, I never get a chance to watch it consistently since they started broadcasting it at strange times...then I have to decide between Law and Order or Sienfeld....decisions decisions...

 

[alexfoleyc]

I'm sure this thread has been started before, but I can't seem to find it.. so I'll ask away.

Right now, I have (I believe) a very mediocre 3.4 GPA. I had been planning on going with a business degree, so I didn't put too much care into grades. When I decided I was going to try and get into med school, I had a 3.1 or so GPA. I figure I'll probably be around a 3.6 or so when I apply, assuming I do better than I probably will in my upcoming biology and o-chem classes.

I keep telling myself I'll balance out my not-so-spectacular GPA with a 33+ MCAT, since I tend to do fairly well on these tests. Then I started thinking a few days ago.. this is a HARD test. There's a very real possibility I might score a 24 on it. Then what? I keep consistently getting the answers right on that mcat q of the day, but all that's really doing is giving me false confidence in my abilities as I don't really believe the MCAT questions are that easy.

I figure I'll give the application process 2-3 goes, each time working on improving EC's and GPA if I don't make it. After that.. what? I really, honestly cannot imagine doing anything else than going to medical school and becoming a physician. I wouldn't even bother going the DO route as the effort isn't worth the constant questioning and minimizing people will do when they see the D.O after my name. Am I going into it for the recognition? No, but I don't want to live a life of being questioned about my degree, either.

I'm just wondering what kind of back-up plans you guys and gals have. Is there anything else that could really satisfy you for the rest of your life if you didn't make it?

I agree with you. The reality is that rejections happen and sometimes they do occur the 2 round of application. In that case, I think one should just get a job in the field they hold their degree in. I mean after 3 rounds it's a strike out. This is the last time we all want to hear. 🙁

 

[alexfoleyc]

"This is the last thing we all want to hear. 🙁"

 

[Van Chowder]

You wreak of arrogance. Humility is not something you should just show on this forum, but in life.

And, to clear things up, I wasn't saying it is impossible to be URM and have a physician father. That makes no sense, since there are TONS of URM doctors out there. I'm sure they have kids. What I was saying was it's not probable that you can be socio-economically disadvantaged and have a physician father. I don't know what planet you are on, but if you think that physicians aren't still earning a comfortable (maybe not so lavish anymore) living, then you are delusional. You do realize the average salary of Americans is around 50,000, right?

Man, some people on SDN have no concept of the world around them.

Thank you for the advice on how I should live my life, but if I am not mistaken our medium for this conversation is SDN. Regardless, you make far too many assumptions, yes in general doctors earn a good amount of money, especially compared to most other professions, but lets face it $50000 does not go nearly as far in say San Francisco or Manhattan as it would in Ohio. Simultaneously I did not say doctors do not earn a comfortable living,but I was pointing out that your generalization of ALL doctors making a comfortable living, ( which is essentially what it sounds like you are saying ) is just plain ignorant. You may not know it, but some people donate their time in the pursuit of helping those that cannot afford or otherwise access typical medical care, so while you may be in medical school for the money, believe it or not, some people actually pursue the career with the purpose of actually doing all they can to help their fellow human being. With that said, no I never went hungry and no I did not have to go to school with holes in my clothes, but I by no means lived the lavish life you are making it seem like all doctors' children live. So no it is not probable for me to be disadvantaged, but it is not impossible. But I guess you have made it quite clear you're children will never worry about money because you clearly know why you are going into the medical profession.

Kudos to you.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

Thank you for the advice on how I should live my life, but if I am not mistaken our medium for this conversation is SDN. Regardless, you make far too many assumptions, yes in general doctors earn a good amount of money, especially compared to most other professions, but lets face it $50000 does not go nearly as far in say San Francisco or Manhattan as it would in Ohio. Simultaneously I did not say doctors do not earn a comfortable living,but I was pointing out that your generalization of ALL doctors making a comfortable living, ( which is essentially what it sounds like you are saying ) is just plain ignorant. You may not know it, but some people donate their time in the pursuit of helping those that cannot afford or otherwise access typical medical care, so while you may be in medical school for the money, believe it or not, some people actually pursue the career with the purpose of actually doing all they can to help their fellow human being. With that said, no I never went hungry and no I did not have to go to school with holes in my clothes, but I by no means lived the lavish life you are making it seem like all doctors' children live. So no it is not probable for me to be disadvantaged, but it is not impossible. But I guess you have made it quite clear you’re children will never worry about money because you clearly know why you are going into the medical profession.

Kudos to you.

LOL.

What?

You really need to learn how to read something and develop an argument based on what you've read. Let's break this down:

Please tell me where I said that all doctors children live the lavish lifestyle you think I said. In fact, I said quite the opposite:

..if you think that physicians aren't still earning a comfortable (maybe not so lavish anymore) living..

Yea, I said they live comfortably, not lavishly.

..but lets face it $50000 does not go nearly as far in say San Francisco or Manhattan as it would in Ohio

Yea, that's why doctors in San Francisco and Manhattan earn more than doctors in Ohio.

I was pointing out that your generalization of ALL doctors making a comfortable living, ( which is essentially what it sounds like you are saying ) is just plain ignorant.

I've yet to hear of a doctor who is struggling to pay his bills. I admit, they do not make as much as they used to, and with Obamacare on the horizon, who knows where they will be. But let's be realistic, they make a comfortable living currently. My definition of comfortable is able to pay bills on time, have a nice house, a nice car, able to eat well, and have a vacation every now and then. If your definition of comfortable is 2 houses, four sport cars, eating at the best restaraunts each week, and trips all over the world every other month, then yea, doctors don't live comfortably.

You may not know it, but some people donate their time in the pursuit of helping those that cannot afford or otherwise access typical medical care, so while you may be in medical school for the money, believe it or not, some people actually pursue the career with the purpose of actually doing all they can to help their fellow human being

? Ok, where did I in even remotely say I was in it for the money, and I didn't want to help people? Btw, that part of your response sounded like a personal statement.

But I guess you have made it quite clear you’re children will never worry about money because you clearly know why you are going into the medical profession.

Again, where did I say I was going into medicine for the money? I think you got emotional because I said you did not grow up socio-economically disadvantaged, and you somehow misconstrued that as me wanting to become a doctor to be rich??? That's the only thing I can think of that links my post to your response.

In all honesty, with Obama's new health care reform, I don't know where we'll all be. Let's hope for the best.

Good luck on your journey.

 

[SteinUmStein]

In all honesty, with Obama's new health care reform, I don't know where we'll all be. Let's hope for the best.

Good luck on your journey.

Dunno, he just gave a convincing press conference a few hours ago. I was pretty skeptical, but he's serious about getting it right. I don't think physicians are going to be as screwed over as people are whining about now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/us/politics/23obama.html?_r=1&hp


"If somebody told you that there is a plan out there that is guaranteed to double your health-care costs over the next 10 years," he said, "that's guaranteed to result in more Americans losing their health care, and that is by far the biggest contributor to our federal deficit, I think most people would be opposed to that,"


"That's what we have right now," he said. "So if we don't change, we can't expect a different result."

 

[TexasFight]

Dunno, he just gave a convincing press conference a few hours ago. I was pretty skeptical, but he's serious about getting it right. I don't think physicians are going to be as screwed over as people are whining about now.

I sure hope so. Those guys in the Anesthesiology forums keep coming up with new ways to scare me.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

Dunno, he just gave a convincing press conference a few hours ago. I was pretty skeptical, but he's serious about getting it right. I don't think physicians are going to be as screwed over as people are whining about now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/us/politics/23obama.html?_r=1&hp


"If somebody told you that there is a plan out there that is guaranteed to double your health-care costs over the next 10 years," he said, "that's guaranteed to result in more Americans losing their health care, and that is by far the biggest contributor to our federal deficit, I think most people would be opposed to that,"


"That's what we have right now," he said. "So if we don't change, we can't expect a different result."

I think less people on these forums would be complaining if Obama would do more about medical schools costs and more about malpractice suits so doctors don't have to practice defensive medicine 24/7. That would at least cushion the effects of any decrease in compensation.

 

[SteinUmStein]

I think less people on these forums would be complaining if Obama would do more about medical schools costs and more about malpractice suits so doctors don't have to practice defensive medicine 24/7. That would at least cushion the effects of any decrease in compensation.

I believe the current bill addresses malpractice in some way, although I'm not sure what exact regulations are being proposed. He did mention it before, though, and it's a key part of reducing unnecessary medical treatments.

I don't think anyone is offering to pay our med school tuition, so don't get your hopes up on that one. 🙁

 

[Van Chowder]

LOL.

What?

You really need to learn how to read something and develop an argument based on what you've read. Let's break this down:

Please tell me where I said that all doctors children live the lavish lifestyle you think I said. In fact, I said quite the opposite:



Yea, I said they live comfortably, not lavishly.



Yea, that's why doctors in San Francisco and Manhattan earn more than doctors in Ohio.



I've yet to hear of a doctor who is struggling to pay his bills. I admit, they do not make as much as they used to, and with Obamacare on the horizon, who knows where they will be. But let's be realistic, they make a comfortable living currently. My definition of comfortable is able to pay bills on time, have a nice house, a nice car, able to eat well, and have a vacation every now and then. If your definition of comfortable is 2 houses, four sport cars, eating at the best restaraunts each week, and trips all over the world every other month, then yea, doctors don't live comfortably.



? Ok, where did I in even remotely say I was in it for the money, and I didn't want to help people? Btw, that part of your response sounded like a personal statement.



Again, where did I say I was going into medicine for the money? I think you got emotional because I said you did not grow up socio-economically disadvantaged, and you somehow misconstrued that as me wanting to become a doctor to be rich??? That's the only thing I can think of that links my post to your response.

In all honesty, with Obama's new health care reform, I don't know where we'll all be. Let's hope for the best.

Good luck on your journey.

I do not feel like arguing this very tired subject any longer, bottom line, is URMs clearly have an easier time of getting into medical school, disadvantaged or not.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

I do not feel like arguing this very tired subject any longer, bottom line, is URMs clearly have an easier time of getting into medical school, disadvantaged or not.

Where are you getting this stuff from? When did I say that they don't?

 

[Kimaris]

I have a couple of contingency plans. Right now I'm majoring in Accounting with a minor in bio. If I don't get into med school my first choice would be to go to P.A. school (I'm a emt-b right now) right after I graduate. If that dosn't work I'll go fast track nursing work for a few years and then try a masters for a CRNA. If all else fails I can just fall back on accounting.

 

[Dr Wake N Bake]

Botanist

 

[F4 Phantom]

I figure I'll give the application process 2-3 goes, each time working on improving EC's and GPA if I don't make it. After that.. what? I really, honestly cannot imagine doing anything else than going to medical school and becoming a physician.

PA school?

 

[danimjo]

I had a job lined up if I didn't get in. Then after 2-3 years I would've reapplied to med school if I still had the desire to do so.

That is EXACTLY what I did... I applied first in 2006... then again in 2008 and now for the third and final time, lets hope I make it off the wait list this year!

And to pull the thread back to topic (sorry)... if I don't get in I'll probably get engaged later this year, pursue a masters (I'm thinking food science, business or horticulture), and eventually start a family and stay at home with the kiddos if possible.

 

[SteinUmStein]

That is EXACTLY what I did... I applied first in 2006... then again in 2008 and now for the third and final time, lets hope I make it off the wait list this year!

I applaud you for your persistence. No, seriously, that's really impressive. I don't have that kind of patience. I'd be in DO or PA school before I tried a third time around...

 

[mvenus929]

Here's my advice: Never plan for failure.

Needless to say, I don't have a contingency plan for if I do not get into medical school.

I didn't have a contingency plan... never intended on not getting accepted. Unfortunately, in this particular process, so much is out of your control (after all, 50% of applicants in any given year don't get accepted anywhere) that it's really better just to have a backup plan, even if you have no intention of pursuing it.

If you truly want to be a U.S. practicing physician and the MD schools don't work out, you apply for DO schools, plain and simple.

I applied MD once. Since there's only 10 (or so) DO schools, and I'm poor, I opted to apply only MD again. Of course, my stats were not the problem the first time around.

As someone said above, if I don't get accepted this year (my second time around), I'll probably go for an accelerated BSN, and eventually become an NP. Either that, or become a dietitian.

 

[onb2014]

dental school baby! higher pay than gp's with fewer hours.

 

[ensuii]

dental school baby! higher pay than gp's with fewer hours.

Dentistry is a great option if you don't mind looking in people's disgusting mouths all day @_@ You'd have to consider that if you wanted to do solo practice in dentistry, overhead is a lot higher compared to gp's (avg 71% of revenue vs 63%).

 

[danimjo]

I didn't have a contingency plan... never intended on not getting accepted. Unfortunately, in this particular process, so much is out of your control (after all, 50% of applicants in any given year don't get accepted anywhere) that it's really better just to have a backup plan, even if you have no intention of pursuing it.

It's actually closer to 60% don't get in... last year I think there were around 43,000 applicants for 17,000 seats in US medical school classes (and I'm not positive but I think these number include DO schools). If you take into account that some percentage of those seats go to students who deferred and students who "got accepted pending room" into the previous year's class, which means they are automatically accepted into this years class. In any given application cycle there are easily less than 16,000 open seats.