What are your expectations of a profession in optometry?

[319671]

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I mean I don't really know what to say because obv i'm stilling applying. idk i heard this was a past interview question, but idk if they want it more general (ie i expect it to be a challenge, but making incremental changes in people's lives) or specific ( I expect to set up a PP, with a comanager etc etc)

 

[Jason K]

I mean I don't really know what to say because obv i'm stilling applying. idk i heard this was a past interview question, but idk if they want it more general (ie i expect it to be a challenge, but making incremental changes in people's lives) or specific (I expect to set up a PP, with a comanager etc etc)

There are some threads you should visit on this forum. I would not go into optometry with the expectation of opening your own private practice and there are many, many ODs out there who would strongly agree with me on that.

Most graduates today are going into commercial and corporate optometry (Walmart, Sam's Club, JCPenny, or LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, America's Best, etc.) Is it impossible to open an office today? No, but the obstacles that stand in your way today are seemingly infinite compared to when most of today's successful offices were opened. There's a reason that new grads aren't opening offices today. In the 80s, opening an office cold right out of school was nothing unusual. Today, it's almost unheard of.

Just do your research by talking to as many ODs as possible, preferably newer ones. Don't listen to the "hot air" that you'll be fed by the AOA, the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Handbook, or worse yet, the schools to which you are applying.

I graduated in 2005 and I keep in touch with most of my classmates. I can tell you that in my graduating class, the vast majority of us would choose another profession if we could do it over again. There are many reasons for that sentiment, but that should tell you something.

 

[319671]

There are some threads you should visit on this forum. I would not go into optometry with the expectation of opening your own private practice and there are many, many ODs out there who would strongly agree with me on that.

Most graduates today are going into commercial and corporate optometry (Walmart, Sam's Club, JCPenny, or LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, America's Best, etc.) Is it impossible to open an office today? No, but the obstacles that stand in your way today are seemingly infinite compared to when most of today's successful offices were opened. There's a reason that new grads aren't opening offices today. in the 80s, opening an office cold right out of school was nothing unusual. Today, it's almost unheard of.

Just do your research by talking to as many ODs as possible, preferably newer ones. Don't listen to the "hot air" that you'll be fed by the AOA, the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Handbook, or worse yet, the schools to which you are applying.

I graduated in 2005 and I keep in touch with most of my classmates. I can tell you that in my graduating class, the vast majority of us would choose another profession if we could do it over again. There are many reasons for that sentiment, but that should tell you something.

oh whoa. you would choose a different profession? why? what school did you graduate from?

 

[nicmc]

I mean I don't really know what to say because obv i'm stilling applying. idk i heard this was a past interview question, but idk if they want it more general (ie i expect it to be a challenge, but making incremental changes in people's lives) or specific ( I expect to set up a PP, with a comanager etc etc)

Go visit the past interview questions part of SDN. Honestly, you need to come up with your own answers and stop asking everyone else what you should say in an interview.

 

[Shnurek]

oh whoa. you would choose a different profession? why? what school did you graduate from?

He's stuck in a saturated metropolitan area. If you want to be successful in optometry you have to move out to the suburbs or even better, rural areas.

 

[Jason K]

He's stuck in a saturated metropolitan area. If you want to be successful in optometry you have to move out to the suburbs or even better, rural areas.

Yes, I am in a heavily saturated area, but that has very little to do with my opinions on the future of the profession. I'd be saying the same thing if I were in rural New Mexico. One's own location does not affect the oversupply issue and other problems optometry is facing, it just makes it more or less difficult to perceive from your own vantage point. The situation is what it is, regardless of how one person sees it, myself included. If someone wants to believe that the "is" is a geat profession with a bright future, come on in, you'll figure it out eventually, but it'll be after spending a small fortune and investing 4-5 years of study beyond college. If you see the "is" as I and many, many other ODs do, a profession which is suffering terribly from poor leadership and a resultant oversupply issue which is sinking it slowly, declining pay, declining job quality, etc, etc, then maybe you should look at another profession. What that other profession is, I can't say, that's up to the individual. What I can say is that choosing optometry because "other health profession have their problems too," is a pretty inane way of thinking. People really need to look at the big picture and make sure it lines up with what they are planning on.

 

[black07]

Jason K, I just had to laugh at how many times you mention rural New Mexico!.... haha... are you originally from there??

 

[319671]

well I guess with every profession there are people who hate it and love it.

 

[Jason K]

Jason K, I just had to laugh at how many times you mention rural New Mexico!.... haha... are you originally from there??

Nope, I did a rotation there - 4 very long months without TV, radio, internet, and often a working toilet. Very easy to study for boards, though. People - awesome - I actually still keep in touch with a couple of the folks I met there. I was able to participate in a few Native American ceremonies which is something most people can't say. But the location I was in, well......not so awesome - looked like the moon, except with rattle snakes, tumble weeds, and an hour drive to the nearest gas station. All kidding aside, there are some beautiful parts to NM and to be honest, the place I was in had it's own bizarre beauty, but after 4 months, I was definitely ready to leave for good. But as my preceptors there used to say, rural NM is about the only place left in the US that can stand a few more ODs. I actually think they were wrong, there's a few icebergs floating around the north pole that don't have any optometrists.😀

 

[Jason K]

well I guess with every profession there are people who hate it and love it.

I don't hate my profession, I hate what is happening to it. There is a HUGE difference between those two things.

 

[Jason K]

If you want to be successful in optometry you have to move out to the suburbs or even better, rural areas.

Sorry, Shnurek, suburbs are considered part of metropolitan areas as far as this discussion is concerned. You're not going to escape saturation by heading out to the "burbs." Extremely rural areas?....maybe, but as I've said before, moving as a transplant to a very remote community can be a lot more difficult than you might assume. And commuting to one?....if you can, it's probably not rural enough.

 

[319671]

Sorry, Shnurek, suburbs are considered part of metropolitan areas as far as this discussion is concerned. You're not going to escape saturation by heading out to the "burbs." Extremely rural areas?....maybe, but as I've said before, moving as a transplant to a very remote community can be a lot more difficult than you might assume.

I respect you because you're an OD, but i'd rather not have people spreading negativity about a profession to hopefuls.

 

[HPDV6000]

Yeah, very hard and questionable future for optometry. Jason K is right, going into optometry is a huge risk, but avoiding crowded areas is a must. Within 25 miles of my city, there are four pages of optometrists from their website, a bit excessive.

Moving to poorer regions can help, but it can only do so much as prior graduates who are still jobless are thinking the same. Although, I wouldn't mind a hour commute to a poorer area if I know my practice (maybe if I get one) would run.

 

[Jason K]

I respect you because you're an OD, but i'd rather not have people spreading negativity about a profession to hopefuls.

That's precisely the approach that leads people into the trap. In some cases, the negativity is warranted and this is one of them. Attorneys have a well known saturation issue that I have no problem saying is worse than that of optometry. It's not hidden from hopefuls the way it is in optometry, though. It's in the news, people talk about it, it's out there for people to see. There are several cases of new JDs actually suing their law schools now because they are claiming the need for lawyers and the job prospects were misrepresented by their programs. Would someone who expressed negativity to one of those people before they chose law be considered unethical? If an experienced attorney were to tell a prospective law student, "Hey, law was once a great prospect for students, the professional opportunities were good, the pay was good, the outlook was great, but now, there's way too many of us and the profession is no longer worth what it costs..." would that guy be doing the student a disservice?

The same process is taking place right now in optometry. New prospects are being flat out lied to about the need for more ODs and the job prospects after graduating. At some point, the whole house of cards will collapse. A lot more unsuspecting ODs will be pumped out before that day comes, though. I won't be surprised in the slightest if very soon we see OD graduates suing their alma mater due to misrepresentation of income, job potential, and need for optometrists. Optometry programs, especially the new ones, are blatantly lying to their prospective students about how much they can expect to make; WesternU quoting a "range" of 96K to 175K? A prospective OD reads that and thinks, "Ok, I'll come out of school with 200K in educational debt, but I'll be making a minimum of about 100K so that's not so bad. I can do pretty well if I start out at 100K out of school and work my way up to 175K, right?" Don't be surprised if those numbers mysteriously disappear in the near future. I'm sure dean Hoppe at Western won't want to be caught with unrealistic numbers on her school's website, especially if the trend of students suing their grad schools becomes a trend.

I'm telling people that the dream they have, the idealized view they have of optometry is a fantasy that does not exist any longer. You can see the remnants of it in today's existing entrenched private practices, but as I've said before many times, don't look at those offices and think to yourself that you're going to come out of school and reproduce what they have done. It's just not going to happen. If you choose optometry based on the AOA's picture, you're in for a big disappointment. That's not negativity. It's a dose of reality. If you guys had any idea what thousands of ODs out there are saying, you'd see things in a totally different light. It's ok though, those of you who disregard the warnings will be in the same hornet's nest in a few years and there will be yet more people voicing exactly what I and others are saying.

 

[HPDV6000]

That's precisely the approach that leads people into the trap. In some cases, the negativity is warranted and this is one of them. Attorneys have a well known saturation issue that I have no problem saying is worse than that of optometry. It's not hidden from hopefuls the way it is in optometry, though. It's in the news, people talk about it, it's out there for people to see. There are several cases of new JDs actually suing their law schools now because they are claiming the need for lawyers and the job prospects were misrepresented by their programs. Would someone who expressed negativity to one of those people before they chose law be considered unethical? If an experienced attorney were to tell a prospective law student, "Hey, law was once a great prospect for students, the professional opportunities were good, the pay was good, the outlook was great, but now, there's way too many of us and the profession is no longer worth what it costs..." would that guy be doing the student a disservice?

The same process is taking place right now in optometry. New prospects are being flat out lied to about the need for more ODs and the job prospects after graduating. At some point, the whole house of cards will collapse. A lot more unsuspecting ODs will be pumped out before that day comes, though. I won't be surprised in the slightest if very soon we see OD graduates suing their alma mater due to misrepresentation of income, job potential, and need for optometrists. Optometry programs, especially the new ones, are blatantly lying to their prospective students about how much they can expect to make; WesternU quoting a "range" of 96K to 175K? A prospective OD reads that and thinks, "Ok, I'll come out of school with 200K in educational debt, but I'll be making a minimum of about 100K so that's not so bad. I can do pretty well if I start out at 100K out of school and work my way up to 175K, right?" Don't be surprised if those numbers mysteriously disappear in the near future. I'm sure dean Hoppe at Western won't want to be caught with unrealistic numbers on her school's website, especially if the trend of students suing their grad schools becomes a trend.

I'm telling people that the dream they have, the idealized view they have of optometry is a fantasy that does not exist any longer. You can see the remnants of it in today's existing entrenched private practices, but as I've said before many times, don't look at those offices and think to yourself that you're going to come out of school and reproduce what they have done. It's just not going to happen. If you choose optometry based on the AOA's picture, you're in for a big disappointment. That's not negativity. It's a dose of reality. If you guys had any idea what thousands of ODs out there are saying, you'd see things in a totally different light. It's ok though, those of you who disregard the warnings will be in the same hornet's nest in a few years and there will be yet more people voicing exactly what I and others are saying.

Exactly, it doesn't matter if you don't want negativity on these forums, but reality is reality, and life sucks sometimes.

There will always be a certain demand out there for optometrists, but we've exceeded that and it will only get worse, I just hope these new schools don't get accredited.

Law is insanely over populated, those graduates are in a worse position than optometry school graduates, they suffer a 200K+ debt while we usually don't always get that high.

Just look at it this way, look up your towns population and divide it by 10,000. That's how many optometrists should be practicing there, but go to aoa.org and look up how many optometrists are in your town.

Reality hurts.

 

[319671]

Exactly, it doesn't matter if you don't want negativity on these forums, but reality is reality, and life sucks sometimes.

There will always be a certain demand out there for optometrists, but we've exceeded that and it will only get worse, I just hope these new schools don't get accredited.

Law is insanely over populated, those graduates are in a worse position than optometry school graduates, they suffer a 200K+ debt while we usually don't always get that high.

Just look at it this way, look up your towns population and divide it by 10,000. That's how many optometrists should be practicing there, but go to aoa.org and look up how many optometrists are in your town.

Reality hurts.

reality hurts...yet you're still pre-opt?

 

[Jason K]

reality hurts...yet you're still pre-opt?

Maybe, but he's right.

 

[319671]

Maybe, but he's right.

jason k, what profession would you go into that ISNT plagued by oversupply or low salary?

 

[imemily]

reality hurts...yet you're still pre-opt?

Lol.

That was about the only post worth reading in this thread.

 

[netmag]

I respect you because you're an OD, but i'd rather not have people spreading negativity about a profession to hopefuls.

You might be a bit too generous with the offer of respect here. Respect is something that should be earned and not freely offered especially to anonymous internet posters with obviously dubious motives. This is a person who within his first 3 or 4 posts here posted a link to a homemade anti-optometry youtube video and has not waivered in tone or intention since. That pretty much sums it up. Regardless of whether there are some truths there, the source can't be trusted at all so it's not worth the time to read it.

 

[KHE]

You might be a bit too generous with the offer of respect here. Respect is something that should be earned and not freely offered especially to anonymous internet posters with obviously dubious motives. This is a person who within his first 3 or 4 posts here posted a link to a homemade anti-optometry youtube video and has not waivered in tone or intention since. That pretty much sums it up. Regardless of whether there are some truths there, the source can't be trusted at all so it's not worth the time to read it.

So what about me? Can I be trusted?

 

[Jason K]

jason k, what profession would you go into that ISNT plagued by oversupply or low salary?

Jeez, this one has been asked and answered several times, but what the heck, I'll answer it again. For me, personally, I would go dental and probably specialize in endo (root canals - I know, horrible). That is going purely on theoretical preferences, not practicality (I have an orthopedic arm issue that would make dental practice of any kind, except maybe ortho, impractical). Is dentistry immune to oversupply issues? No, just about all of the health professions are affected to some extent. But those who have complaints about dentistry make them from within a much healthier profession.

I know quite a few younger dentists, MDs, ODs, a DVM, and a PhD psychologist. Around the campfire, the ones who complain the least about changes going on in their respective fields are the dentists. Sure, they complain, but I have an uncle who owns a Ferarri. He complains that his car is expensive to work on. That's a little different than the guy who complains that his Ford Pinto exploded when he was rear-ended by a 3 year-old on a tricycle. Both people are complaining, but on very different levels.

Dentistry:

👍 does not suffer from a misdirected "AOA" equivalent
👍 it self-regulates so the commercial/retail side does not have the "ammo" (new grads with nowhere else to go) to grow out of control as in optometry
👍 it faces minimal competition from MDs
👍 new grad pay is much higher
👍 experienced doc pay is much higher
👍 private practice dentistry is still strong
👍 ample opportunities to specialize (I mean really specialize, not optometric "specialization")
👍 has a very minimal retail/commercial component (people have been talking about dentists showing up in Walmarts for years, it hasn't happened yet - maybe it will some day, but even when it does, dentistry will still not be a "retail" profession the way optometry is heading.)
👍is far more attended to by the public when it comes to regular care (how many people miss their 6 mo dental visit? How many people miss their annual eye exam?)

Now, let me tell you what's going to happen here. The predicted responses will arrive on scene: "Dentistry is suffering too,....the overhead is higher, ....the degree is also expensive, people's mouths stink, dentists jump off buildings, tartar is evil.....their backs hurt....everyone hates the dentist, ...etc, etc, etc" It doesn't change the fact that, on an objective level, dentistry is a healthier profession with better professional outlook for people entering now. If someone wants to deny that fact and say that it's equivalent to optometry because it makes them feel like they're getting a great deal as an OD, then so be it, but it doesn't change anything.

So for me, as someone with no particular bias against people's mouths and no unusual fascination with the human visual system, dentistry would present a better option. In 50 years, who knows, maybe dentistry will be at the bottom of the pile as far as the health professions are concerned, but for now, it's near the top. Optometry, however, is not, and I can virtually guarantee you that in 50 years, it will be far worse off than it is today.

 

[netmag]

So what about me? Can I be trusted?

Do you spend every post trashing your profession? Is there any balance to your posts or variations of topics? If you had an plainly obvious agenda to push then I would say that you can not be trusted but I have not seen that from you. Again it's up to each individual to decide. I know I think he crosses the line and won't trust it even though some of it is the truth.

 

[Jason K]

You might be a bit too generous with the offer of respect here. Respect is something that should be earned and not freely offered especially to anonymous internet posters with obviously dubious motives. This is a person who within his first 3 or 4 posts here posted a link to a homemade anti-optometry youtube video and has not waivered in tone or intention since. That pretty much sums it up. Regardless of whether there are some truths there, the source can't be trusted at all so it's not worth the time to read it.

As usual, netmag flies in to make statements that are repetitions of the obvious. I've never hidden the fact that my main reason for being on here is to inform people of the realities of what's happening in the profession right now. You seem to enjoy claiming that this is somehow a "hidden agenda" of mine. It's not hidden, anyone with an IQ above 80 can see that. Did you ever even watch the powerpoint? I think not. If so, tell me EXACTLY what it is in that presentation that you disagree with and why. You seem awfully quick to make judgements about things you know nothing about, for starters, the entire optometric profession.

You also seem to be quick to make claims about what people say, and then back down when asked to justify your claims. (I'm still waiting.....if you're going to stuff words in my mouth, I'd like you to explain where they came from. I don't think that's asking too much.)

You get some of my more sarcastic and frivolous responses because as I've said many times, the level of my responses will meet that of the post to which I'm responding. If you throw crap in my direction, that's what you're going to get in return.

So, for those of you still playing along at home, I am not here to convince anyone to go into optometry. Apparently, netmag would be more satisfied if I came here on M/W/F and warned against the impending doom that optometry is facing, and then Tu/Th/Sat I would come on here and sing its praises.

In summary, netmag, you look really foolish when you make claims about other posters that cannot be substantiated. If you took the time to actually do some fact checking for yourself about my post history, you might realize why I am pressing the issue. From now on, if you're going to make claims about what I say on this site, please have the balls to back it up with a quote. It really says something when someone is willing to "repeat" what someone says, but they're not able to take the 3 seconds it takes to pull out the quoted text.......interesting how you're the only one who does that on here.

 

[319671]

As usual, netmag flies in to make statements that are repetitions of the obvious. I've never hidden the fact that I'm on here to inform people primarily of the realities of what's happening in the profession right now. Did you ever even watch the powerpoint? I think not. If so, tell me EXACTLY what it is in that presentation that you disagree with and why. You seem awfully quick to make judgements about things you know nothing about, for starters, the entire optometric profession.

You also seem to be quick to make claims about what people say, and then back down when asked to justify your claims. (I'm still waiting.....if you're going to stuff words in my mouth, I'd like you to explain where they came from. I don't think that's asking too much.)

You get some of my more sarcastic and frivolous responses because as I've said many times, the level of my responses will meet that of the post to which I'm responding. If you throw crap in my direction, that's what you're going to get in return.

So, for those of you still playing along at home, I am not here to convince anyone to go into optometry. Apparently, netmag would be more satisfied if I came here on M/W/F and warned against the impending doom that optometry is facing, and then Tu/Th/Sat I would come on here and sing its praises.

In summary, netmag, you look really foolish when you make claims about other posters that cannot be substantiated. If you took the time to actually do some fact checking for yourself about my post history, you might realize why I am pressing the issue. From now on, if you're going to make claims about what I say on this site, please have the balls to back it up with a quote. It really says something when someone is willing to "repeat" what someone says, but they're not able to take the 3 seconds it takes to pull out the quoted text.......interesting how you're the only one who does that on here.

No. I think his point is that you dont need to be negative every day. say your point and be done with it. dont put down everyone. anyway. i sure as hell wouldnt want to be a dentist smelling peoples stanky mouths everyday.

 

[Jason K]

Do you spend every post trashing your profession?

Do you ever learn? Here we go again. Please show me where I "trashed" my profession on this forum, anywhere. Apparently I do it on every post, but I'm not asking for 3 or 4 or 5 examples, I'm just asking for 1 isolated example. Please use quotes. I've asked you before 3 or 4 times to back up other false claims you've made about my posts, but you continuously refuse to produce anything of substance.

Trashing one's profession and consistently highlighting the problems it's facing are two VERY different things. The entire reason I'm on here is because I actually DO care enough about my chosen profession to not want to see it drown itself as it's doing now. There are plenty of other ODs who share the same frustrations and fears that I do over the way things are going, they just choose to exchange their information with each other on a forum which is not available to pre-optometry students. On that forum, there is no shortage of ODs who are quite open with their belief that optometrists should be telling people not to pursue the profession any longer or else face the consequences. I choose to do it here - sue me.

How about it netmag? How many more lies are you going to post before you give up and start actually quoting me? If you need help in figuring out how to use the quoting system, I'd be more than happy to guide you through the process, it's quite complex. All it requires is a little extra effort on your part. I think you can do it.

 

[Jason K]

....dont put down everyone.

I don't put down "everyone," just those who lie about what I say. (eg: netmag)

 

[KHE]

Do you spend every post trashing your profession? Is there any balance to your posts or variations of topics? If you had an plainly obvious agenda to push then I would say that you can not be trusted but I have not seen that from you. Again it's up to each individual to decide. I know I think he crosses the line and won't trust it even though some of it is the truth.

Ok, well I don't bash my profession daily, I have no agenda.

I'm telling you all that there is a large oversupply of ODs and it will only get worse.

Hope you all find that to be a "trustworthy" statement.

 

[netmag]

Other than the imemily poster, I’m not sure anyone has said that there is no oversupply. Of course, it would also vary depending on where you lived. It is definitely a factor to consider, but it is only one factor. If you’ve narrowed it down to 2 or 3 health care professions and all of them have oversupply issues then you have to also consider other factors as well (good and bad) to make your final decisions. Each individual has their own criteria about what would be a “deal breaker” in terms of selecting a profession.

So pointing out the negatives is not a bad thing IMO. However, if all you do is point out the negatives and you never have anything positive to say, then that’s something completely different. If you go into a pre-optometry forum and hijack threads that are based on a different topic in order to direct people to other threads that fit your agenda, then that’s something completely different.

Ok, well I don't bash my profession daily, I have no agenda.

I'm telling you all that there is a large oversupply of ODs and it will only get worse.

Hope you all find that to be a "trustworthy" statement.

 

[Jason K]

However, if all you do is point out the negatives and you never have anything positive to say, then that's something completely different.

For the 900th time, read my post history, please. I don't have much in the way of positives to say, but not everything I post is negative as you claim. (Of course, I don't expect you to actually respond to that point). Perhaps I should just fabricate warm-fuzzies so I "seem" more credible to you?

If you go into a pre-optometry forum and hijack threads that are based on a different topic in order to direct people to other threads that fit your agenda, then that's something completely different.

**Can you please show me an example of a thread that I "hijacked?" Just one. Thanks. The only one for which you might be able to form a weak argument would be the WesternU thread in which I posted this:

Hello Marie,

I thank you sincerely for forwarding my questions on to your dean. I understand this thread is for students so I will not continue to post on this thread, other than to respond to the dean's statement.

Now, I did post one more time in that thread and it included no relevant information. I merely directed another poster to the location at which I chose to answer his question. See, when I am asked a reasonable request, such as those I've posed to you, I usually answer it. You should try it sometime, you might be surprised with what can come up with. Inventing other screen names to further your crusade against me is really not the way to go here.

**Note: my request is purely rhetorical as netmag has no intention of ever responding to my requests for verification of his claims about me. Keep on making up crap, netmag. I'll keep on asking you to back it up, and you'll keep on avoiding the question.

 

[agreenawalt]

I have one question - why does everyone think JasonK is bashing optometry? That makes no sense to me 1. He is an optometrist. 2. he has said he likes his profession, but not what is happening to it. 3. He mentions that the field is getting way oversaturated. Therefore, isn't it clear that from his persepctive he is pro-optometry? From his side of the view, it is kind of us pre-optometry students who are going to be further over-saturating the field and contributing to the oversupply of optometrist. Therefore, it seems to me like he IS pro-optometry since he does not want to see the downfall of a career he cares about.
From our side as pre-optometry students, it would seem he is anti-optometry, but it's all about looking at other people's perspectives. Besides, closing off your ears and not listening to all advice that comes your way and deciding what it means to yourself is kind of an ignorant path to take. Never just blindly accept opinions of others, but isn't it worth it to at least consider what he has to say?

 

[imemily]

I have one question - why does everyone think JasonK is bashing optometry? That makes no sense to me 1. He is an optometrist. 2. he has said he likes his profession, but not what is happening to it. 3. He mentions that the field is getting way oversaturated. Therefore, isn't it clear that from his persepctive he is pro-optometry? From his side of the view, it is kind of us pre-optometry students who are going to be further over-saturating the field and contributing to the oversupply of optometrist. Therefore, it seems to me like he IS pro-optometry since he does not want to see the downfall of a career he cares about.
From our side as pre-optometry students, it would seem he is anti-optometry, but it's all about looking at other people's perspectives. Besides, closing off your ears and not listening to all advice that comes your way and deciding what it means to yourself is kind of an ignorant path to take. Never just blindly accept opinions of others, but isn't it worth it to at least consider what he has to say?

No.

 

[agreenawalt]

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully some of us still have open minds, but from the looks of it, no. *sigh*