What are your therapeutics courses like?

[CaptainPicard]

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At my school, we have a series of therapeutics courses throughout the P2 and P3 years. They are a combination of pathophysiology, pharmacology, medicinal chemistry, and therapeutics.

What bugs me is that the therapeutics seem to be kind of a small component. We have as many lectures and exam questions on med chem as we do therapeutics. Then we have physiology tossed in which is often kind of useless.

From what I'm told, the NAPLEX is going to be mostly therapeutics and calculations. It isn't going to ask me what happens when carbon-9 on a steroid is replaced with a fluorine (or at least not much).

Is anyone else experiencing this? I think I read that the ACPE guidelines call for an integration of the subjects. No idea why they think that is a good idea.

 

[bacillus1]

They told us this week how awesome it is that our curriculum is integrated now, since learning pharmacology alongside therapeutics is helping us learn better. I guess that's good.

BUT

This has been our experience in our 3rd semester of therapeutics so far: we had a quiz a day before the first day of class (last Sunday) on new material (35 pages of DiPiro + guidelines). There will be a prep quiz like this every Sunday, without learning the actual topic in class. We come to class, the professor basically says she won't go over about a third of her block's topics (diabetes) and we are responsible for learning them ourselves for the test. They say the others will be similar, as they want us to be "self-learners" (AKA making their lives easier). If I wanted to teach myself, I wouldn't be paying 30k/yr in tuition.

To answer your questions, we have a total of 16 credits of therapeutics + 3 credits of OTC therapeutics + we are required to take 4 credits (2 classes in most cases) of therapeutic electives.

 

[CaptainPicard]

They told us this week how awesome it is that our curriculum is integrated now, since learning pharmacology alongside therapeutics is helping us learn better. I guess that's good.

BUT

This has been our experience in our 3rd semester of therapeutics so far: we had a quiz a day before the first day of class (last Sunday) on new material (35 pages of DiPiro + guidelines). There will be a prep quiz like this every Sunday, without learning the actual topic in class. We come to class, the professor basically says she won't go over about a third of her block's topics (diabetes) and we are responsible for learning them ourselves for the test. They say the others will be similar, as they want us to be "self-learners" (AKA making their lives easier). If I wanted to teach myself, I wouldn't be paying 30k/yr in tuition.

To answer your questions, we have a total of 16 credits of therapeutics + 3 credits of OTC therapeutics + we are required to take 4 credits (2 classes in most cases) of therapeutic electives.

So no med chem?

I hate laziness like that. Yeah, it's good to do stuff on your own, but you should be hearing someone's perspective on the topic for another view or if you aren't understanding something properly.

 

[Sparda29]

Physiology and Pathology are a separate course. Therapeutics for us starts with pharmacology of the drugs in the topic, then the medicinal chemistry, then a brief review of the pathophysiology, and then the pharmacotherapy/dosing.

 

[bacillus1]

So no med chem?

I hate laziness like that. Yeah, it's good to do stuff on your own, but you should be hearing someone's perspective on the topic for another view or if you aren't understanding something properly.

We had a bit of med chem for first semester of P2. It was called "principles of med chem and molecular pharmacology". IMO it was as much medchem as a pharmacist that's not doing any kind of research should know. Then 2nd semester of P2 we had pharmacology 1. This semester we have pharmacology 2. Starting 1st semester of P2 we have therapeutics (so 4 semesters). So it's not all the same class. It's different classes that go alongside each other. They consider it integrated because before our class they had pharmacology and a tiny bit of medchem P2 and all of therapeutics during P3.

 

[CaptainPicard]

I guess I'm really wanting to know the breakdown by percentage (some kind of estimate). Are med chem and physiology a bigger chunk than the actual therapeutics portion?

 

[diastole]

Is med chem that important? We hardly get it all and we didn't even come close to having to know what would happen if carbon-9 on a steroid is replaced by a fluorine. Why do you have to know that? Do they use that in the real world much? I guess I'm wanting to know if I'm going to look like a complete idiot on my rotations or out in the workforce because my school doesn't think med chem is that important so my knowledge of it is minimal.

 

[CaptainPicard]

Is med chem that important? We hardly get it all and we didn't even come close to having to know what would happen if carbon-9 on a steroid is replaced by a fluorine. Why do you have to know that? Do they use that in the real world much? I guess I'm wanting to know if I'm going to look like a complete idiot on my rotations or out in the workforce because my school doesn't think med chem is that important so my knowledge of it is minimal.

I'm 99% certain that med chem is not important for the Naplex, rotations, or work.

 

[Sparda29]

I'm 99% certain that med chem is not important for the Naplex, rotations, or work.

Unless your work involves drug design research or if it's a rotation at an Industrial site.

 

[CaptainPicard]

Unless your work involves drug design research or if it's a rotation at an Industrial site.

I haven't seen any drug design positions for pharmacists that didn't require a MS or PhD.

 

[Ackj]

Tomorrow will be my 5th therapeutics lecture. It's a 2 class on Tues and Thurs, with 3 hours of case studies on Friday. So far, no med chem. Although we really haven't delved into it deeply yet; monitoring lab values, electrolytes, cbc, and anemia. Tomorrow is hypovolemia and other fluid imbalances.

We typically read about 30 pages in dipiro, 10-20 pages in some other book or file that the professor posts on blackboard, look at some kind of study guide to make sure we get these main points, and then have a 5 question quiz when class starts.

 

[pearljam5a1]

Therapeutics at my school starts P2 year and ends the first semester of P3. We had 2 semesters of pharmacology and 2 semesters of Med Chem during P1 year. There's no med chem involved with therapeutics for us but there is usually a basic review of pathophys and the MoA of the drugs (as in 1-2 slides). My professors expect you to know everything about the medications already and focus primarily on why you should put someone on something or why you shouldn't. There's a lot of reading outside of DiPiro about the pertinent trials. Overall I like therapeutics but we'll see how I feel after our first test on Monday 😱.

 

[quartel]

Just started therapeutics. What spard29 wrote seemed to accurate for me.

 

[charfdorn]

I guess I'm really wanting to know the breakdown by percentage (some kind of estimate). Are med chem and physiology a bigger chunk than the actual therapeutics portion?

We get med chem and physiology as 3-credit courses in the spring of P1, so that's about 5% of the curriculum (combined). Then we hit therapeutics by organ system starting in P2, with whatever physiology/med chem we need to fill in holes or refresh our memories as we go. I think the therapeutics come out to about 20 or 25 credits, so that's more like a sixth of the curriculum, and each one is almost entirely therapeutics.

Keep in mind that while you might never directly apply your med chem knowledge, you may get patients asking what the difference between drug A and drug B in the same class is. It's usually enough to say, "Drug A is stronger," but if you recognize why that is it makes you a more competent practitioner, and it's easier than having to learn them individually without understanding the reasons that A is more effective than B.