What are your thoughts On 20/20's "Story on Pharmacy Errors" (Video Link Inside)

[Odublar]

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What is your take on this story? I'm working towards getting all pre-reqs completed for Pharmacy School. All the threads I have read in the archives have helped me out without question. I just ran across this and was wondering what practicing Pharmacists or students thought about it.

Here are the two videos:

Part 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cT5GJL0tEto
Part 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TxT8Gb4tp1I&feature=related


Reading through the old threads I noticed that people were saying retail earns quite a lot. This story makes me want to focus on a different type of Pharmacy. I realize it is based on a whole slew of factors that determines the amount of people you see daily. I'm fascinated with the idea of being a Pharmacist.

It's kind of weird. Recently, I was honorably discharged from the military after serving the appropriate time. Learning a lot over the 6 1/2 years I was in placed me at an advantage I never had before. Realizing that as I matured things became more important to me. I wanted Job Security but also wanted to live where I decided. Also, being away from family really took a toll on me.

I've always been interested in Pharmacy, not obsessed but thought it was intriguing. So I decided to take a chance and get out while it made sense. Turning down a $38,000 bonus had most of my friends and family wondering if I needed a 5150. I was part of the Crypto field with a large group of intelligent individuals who constantly displayed their lack of maturity. (Myself included)

Luckily toward the end of my military career I met some friends with their heads upon their shoulders. It kind of put me in a lot of awkward moments and helped me grow up faster than if I had not met them.

I've been 1000 feet below the surface of the ocean. I've seen China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Okinawa, Mexico, and lived in Hawaii. My life has been miserable and fantastic all at once. The great thing about those experiences are that many people cannot obtain them without spending their money.

Damn, I knew there was a point in there. What I am basically trying to say is that I want Job Security that doesn't make me sacrifice time with family. A career that offers me comfort in knowing that if I graduate work is available and I'll be paid well. Also, another thing is my parents are growing older as all of our parents are. I'd like to know how to help them in some way.

An interesting side note, my father runs his own construction company, my older brother is a Electrician, my middle brother is an aspiring Architect, and my mother is a BSN (Nurse). Her father went to Harvard to become a M.D. and served in a M*A*S*H* unit in Viet Nam.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to introduce myself as this is my first post. Anyways, the point of that last paragraph is I guess I am an amalgamation of all those. I try to write music every now and again, and I like building things to a degree. More creating stuff on a computer than manually constructing a home.

So I looked into something that allowed me to pursue a career that had me being creative (ie clinical) but also did consider some empathy. That being the medical side of things. As much as Nurses are in need. I am male, so there are the constant jokes. 😉 (ie Ben Stiller) Also, there is no way I am changing any diapers until I have children. 😀

So sorry for the long post. Just felt like introducing myself and asking a question while I was at it.

P.S.

I'm starting community college for the pre-req's this summer. I have purchased 3 guides from Books-A-Million. Cliffs Test Prep PCAT 5 Practice Tests, Barron's PCAT Pharmacy College Admission Test, and REA's Interactive Flash Cards PCAT Pharmacy College Admission Test.

Have I bought these too soon? If not, and I have no clue about most of the questions in the tests should I be worried?

P.P.S.

Looking through all the archives I have noticed a lot grammar problems/spelling errors within posts. (I probably have quite a few myself in this one.) Is that common among Pharmacy Students? Besides essays and a few English courses for the Pre-Reqs is this emphasized a lot. Someone mentioned in many of the threads about communication skills and I see where that may reflect. I consider myself well versed in grammar and the like. I might just get a rude awakening in college.

I plan on doing the pre-req's in community college and going straight to applications for Campbell University and UNC-Chapel Hill. Although my brother said he would disown me if I chose UNC-Chapel Hill. 🙄 It's an NC State thing I guess.

Alright, I'm out of here to go memorize the Periodic Table for no other reason than I have been out of high school for seven years and I have no clue except Gold (Au). Man do I have a lot of work to do. Man I say a lot A LOT!!

Thanks in advance for any answers,

Odublar

 

[lessotto]

Wow...I have not seen that one before.

VERY SAD; Sadly, I can imagine how these mistakes could have been made in a very busy pharmacy. Still, so wrong... Makes you realize how powerful the drugs are!

About aspirin and coumadin ---- I am 100 % sure there is a note on the back of the Rx receipt every pharmacy gives that says aspirin can not be taken with this medication. I personally always ask if patients have any questions for the pharmacist (I guess it comes out automatically... like "Hello, How r u doing today?")

And those sheets that patients need to sign....it says there in big letters in English: "Yes, I have questions" and "No, I do not have any questions about this medication". Truth is that some patients just want to get in and get out of the pharmacy ASAP and do not take their time to read and to think about where to sign. Next time I will ask them to " please carefully review the information on this sheet and THEN sign for your prescription". 😎

 

[pharmgrl5]

Hello and welcome! I saw those videos recently, I'm doing a paper for my comp class on pharmacy errors so have been doing a lot of looking around. I think these kinds of things are horrible but some of the key problems I've learned is:
Pharmacists are overworked (trying to fill too many prescriptions too fast)
Pharmacies are understaffed
Corporations are placing pressure to get as many scripts filled as possible, leading to problems

It's really opened my eyes to a lot of things, like CHECK YOUR SCRIPT BEFORE WALKING AWAY. I'm working on getting pharmacy tech certified right now (am signing up for the test in April and am studying off pharm tech books) and I think that learning about these things helps a lot. Ignorance is not bliss.

This story makes me want to focus on a different type of Pharmacy.

Don't let it turn you off entirely. Even though I'm well aware now about the issues going on in retail I'd say that it's likely that not every single retail location out there is *that bad*. When you get to that point of looking for a job look at all your options and the individual locations. You could work in a hospital but pharmacy errors do occur there as well.

Have I bought these too soon?

No. At least I don't think so. I'm only a freshman and I've been looking at PCAT books. Having them earlier on means you can look at those books and get an idea of what you will need later on. Just plan on buying some updated books closer to the time. Some books I've seen (Kaplan?) are updated each year. So if you buy those now just be sure to check closer to the time you plan to take the PCAT and see if there are updated versions to look at.

Looking through all the archives I have noticed a lot grammar problems/spelling errors within posts.

This doesn't indicate anything really, it's a forum, like chat you are going to find people not caring what their grammar looks like. It's just easier to type usually if you aren't worrying about it being perfect. Someone with horrible grammar on a forum might actually be an A student in english and comp. Some of the people here who have the worst grammar actually (I've found) have some of the smartest things to share. I'm guessing you haven't spent a lot of time on internet forums and chat 😀, don't take it that people are stupid if their grammar sucks.

Welcome again! 😀

 

[Happy Hounds]

Riiiight. Let's be honest here. The VAST majority of patients don't like to wait the extra 2 minutes it would take to quadruple check their meds--they'd sooner throw a hissy fit and demand they get their Rx back if it takes more than 5 minutes. I'm not saying that errors are justifiable--they're not--but let's at least show both sides of the coin here.

I agree with the story's perception on the corporate agenda for unbridled expansion and numbers, numbers, numbers--it's unfortunately very true that Pharmacists are worked to the point of losing bone mass, which is why so many leave the field. And, if they work too "slow," yes they get in trouble/threatened with losing their job, etc. But that's not a problem for corporate, right? So long as there's always some fresh grads looking for big money and signing bonuses, they'll always have their Pharmacists, right? Nevermind the actual turnover of Pharmacists and technicians in retail--that would have also been pertinent to add to the report.

The story also failed to mention that (from what it looked like in the videos) when the aspirin/coumadin interaction was not recognized, it was TECHNICIANS checking them out. I'm not saying technicians are bad people, but they are not taught to catch ALL drug interactions when training to be a CPhT (although coumadin/aspirin is a big one--but how many techs know ALL the trade names for Warfarin to begin with?) Now, if they didn't offer any counseling, that's a big NONO, but what if they did offer counseling for the new Coumadin Rx, and the patient turned it down, and then went to buy aspirin with a box of smokes at the FRONT of the store, not the pharmacy? Whose fault is it then?

When I see this, I think it's interesting that doctors make mistakes and get sued and can continue to practice, but it's an outrage if a Pharmacist makes a mistake, their store gets sued, and they continue to practice. If we're going to push out pharmacists, you need to push out the doctors, too.

And FINALLY, what about the thousands of times that a Pharmacist calls back the doctor to tell him that the drug they prescribed is inappropriate for the patient and to change the Rx? What about the many times in a day the Pharmacist actually covers the Doctor's a** to protect the patient?

It's all fine and dandy to make sure your patient doesn't get a ridiculous combination or meds or some ridiculous dosage, but no one is there to protect the Pharmacist from errors--that's why it's even MORE RIDICULOUS that the corporate big brothers in these chains actually EXPECT the Pharmacist to work at break-neck speed. It's all about the money, right? So we make a few errors, no problem, we're opening a store every 15 minutes! If our 2 pharmacists filling 700 prescriptions in one shift make an error, meh, we'll always make more money--hell no we won't make it 3 pharmacists filling 700 prescriptions--do you know what that would do to our stock?! A 0.4% drop is unacceptable!!!!

Sorry, I majored in business the first time around, and I'm sort of bitter about the realities of most of the corporate world (keyword: most--there are good ones out there, too!)

So yeah, these videos piss me off. I'm not saying making those errors was even remotely ok. But vilifying the general pharmacist and making it look like the people behind the counter (yes even that gum-chewing 16-yr-old trying to get experience before he/she goes to college and tries to get into pharmacy school) are out to get you for the almighty corporate dollar is a waste of time and any brain cells the people of 20/20 purport to still have.

 

[BADD281]

I wouldn't suggest you do all of your science pre-reqs. at a community college b/c I am currently a Campbell student and I know for a fact they do NOT like to see that on an app. I am a senior with too many sciences to count and I took them all here and I am still having a tough time getting in...EVEN with a pretty good science GPA! I would suggest getting into a university and starting your pre-reqs...... and while I do not personally know much about UNC admissions I would guess that they too do not like to see all pre-reqs. done at a CC.

 

[nerv12345]

i took 3/4th's of my prereqs at a community college and i've been accepted to 3 pharmacy schools and waitlisted at 2 pharmacy schools....

 

[BADD281]

Campbell or UNC? ... b/c thats what he was referring too - i would know i have lived here all my life........... and been in the pharmacy biz for quite some time. as we say here "this ain't my first rodeo" chief.

 

[AngelaCL]

Of course these errors are terrible, and I'm really surprised that the "patients" were only offered counseling 1/4 of the time or whatever it was - at my store we do ask every single time. But some things about this special are unfair:

1) when you sign to pick up a prescription you are not giving up any rights. If you sign that you don't have any questions (which is not even what you are signing at the chain where I work - just that you are picking up ) - you can still ask for the pharmacist or call on the phone later.

2) Technicians aren't just selected from McDonalds - they are trained. All their work is to be double checked by a pharmacist.

3) Technicians/clerks aren't even *allowed* to counsel - if the pharmacist is ringing they might pick up the aspirin/coumadin but it's not even slightly in the scope of the role of the tech. That is the job of the pharmacist, who should be dispensing a first-fill med anyway.

4) This is exactly why I don't let patients bully me into going faster, and neither will the pharmacists I work with. Patients gripe if they have to wait 15 minutes, but sometimes we need 15 minutes plus to get the job done right. This isn't fast food, and if we mess up you won't just get the wrong combo meal. This is also why all the pharmacists I work with refuse to dispense to someone on a cell phone - they want to make sure the patient understands the directions.

5) Really, a patient should be told about major side effects/interactions twice - by the doctor and the pharmacist. It should also be in writing on the bottle, in the insert, or both. If a patient does not know not to take aspirin with Coumadin, it is not only the pharmacist (and the software that prints out the warning labels) that failed.

I think this special is good for pharmacy techs to watch - it reminds us that pharmacists don't catch every mistake we make and we need to be extremely careful.

 

[herpa767]

I currently am a pharmacy technician at Walgreens Specialty Pharmacy but transferred there from a retail Walgreens store. Retail was a NIGHTMARE for me and everyone else who worked there. I began working in the pharmacy with little training (I was working on my ~30 hours of computer work but had not completed it yet, nor was I a certified technician at the time). We were also very understaffed so I didn't even get to shadow someone long enough to obtain the experience needed before doing things on my own. I was 18 at the time and in high school...needless to say, I don't miss it one bit.

One time I remember working and a pharmacist actually mixed up a patient's medication - meaning that while verifying she accidentally put a bottle of medication into someone else's bag. The patient later came back because they realized that a mistake had been made. The pharmacist couldn't believe she had made the error, but blamed it on the fact that she was rushing because we were busy.

If I ever go back to retail, I would not hesitate to take my own sweet time verifying things, regardless of what other people thought of my skills.

 

[rxchrissarasota]

These stories really piss me off. They're are not doing anybody any good. They aren't "raising awareness" in the industry and bringing about change. WE ALREADY KNOW ERRORS HAPPEN. Our industry has invested BILLIONS to improve safety and will continue to do so. ON OUR OWN BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, NOT BECAUSE OF A STORY ON 20/20. For these reporters to suggest that we don't care about our patients is insane. They are villifying good, hard working people for no reason.

1. I've worked for walgreens for over 5 years in many different stores and in every one, the pressure to move faster comes from the patients staring us down at the counter saying "Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? " "I dropped my script off 10 MINUTES ago!! Isn't it ready YET!!??" or my all time favorite "All you have to do is slap a label on a bottle!!". Not from corporate.

2. I hire techs and maybe 1 out of every 10 applicants is worth taking a chance on hiring, then maybe 1 of 5 ends up being worth anything.

3. Demand for our services is growing exponentially and as we all know, pharmacists don't exactly grow on trees. Pharmacist shortages in retail are not for lack of companies trying to hire.

As for the story on 20/20 and the recent USA today series, good news doesn't sell. If the reporters focused on how many lives Pharmacies, and Pharmacists in particular, save every single day, they would not have a story. Errors happen. Always have, always will. No matter how much time we take, errors will still happen. It sucks, but it's the truth. Yes, the busier we are, the more errors happen, but, the percentages are still miniscule. There are BILLIONS of Rx's filled every year and only thousands of severe errors. Do the math. If you want to see some truly alarming error rates, check out hospitals.

 

[MissCPharmD]

ok seriously, this story hugely pissed me off. especially when the guy interviewing mary ann wegner asked her "so, not everyone behind the pharmacy is a pharmacist?" uhh NO ******* there are not that many pharmacists to do that. 16 year olds *can* be perfectly competent to fill perscriptions under the watchful eye of a pharmacist, but the pharmacist also can't hire any kid off the street just because they are desparate for help. I've actually never heard of that young tho, I know in Michigan you have to be at least 18 to work in a pharmacy.

also, I think that these pharmacists that are making such huge mistakes shouldn't be blaming it on being busy. if they can't handle it, move to a slower store or grow some balls and tell the people b*tching at them to stop before they make a mistake. customers don't understand what pharmacists have to go through while checking perscriptions. if I were a pharmacist and had a customer complaining like that I'd ask them "Would you rather me hurry so you get out of here faster and risk me making a mistake, or be patient and safely get your correct medication?"

about the whole interactions deal, at my pharmacy I work with some great pharmacists, and one of them always, always, always makes sure to put on the perscription before throwing it in the waiting bin "SEE RPH" in big red sharpie if there is an interaction so the tech ringing can notify her to speak to the patient. you absolutely can't expect the tech to know of interactions. at my store, because we are a very busy 24 hour CVS, we always put the new/doesn't-catch-on-quickly techs on the register because we need better help in the back and they certainly dont know this stuff.

this really is a never ending circle.

 

[gx255]

It is true. I was a pharmacy technician, and it felt like i was working at dunkin donuts all over, the pressure, the complaints, the fast pill requirements people kept asking.
Im not going to deny this but I've made tons of errors my first 2 months, im talking "Strength of medication", "Type of Pill" , "Quantity" Errors. Thank god i had a pharmacist that checked each one. I ended up with a habit of putting all the label warnings, even the unnesscary ones. if only the retail stores provided more training.

 

[IWang]

some people really needs to be educated about pharmacy and pharmacy technician, especially the guy that was interviewing everybody "16 years old? and you TRUST them to be in the back of the pharmacy!?"

w.t.f. they ARE probably Certified. Geez

 

[AngelaCL]

These stories really piss me off. They're are not doing anybody any good. They aren't "raising awareness" in the industry and bringing about change.

I don't know, I think it may encourage patients to take a more active role in their care. So many people just ask for "the little white pill" or "the pill for my heart" without really knowing what they are putting in their bodiess. While of course pharmacists should be careful and verify everything and counsel the patients, I think it's also important that patients pay attention to what drugs they are taking, why, and the most major interactions/indications. It makes me happy when patients call after they get a generic from a different manufacturer, and they notice the pills are a little different. I will happily find the bottle of tablets and describe what they look like, have them check the NDC to make sure it's the right med, etc. (we usually try to tell patients if it's a new manufacturer, but sometimes that step gets skipped.) I think if these specials convince patients that they should ask questions and know what is prescribed to them, that's a good thing. Also maybe it makes customers a little more patient when they know how bad rushing can be!

 

[pharmgrl5]

I don't know, I think it may encourage patients to take a more active role in their care.

I agree. I understand the way the guy did the story was a bit off, I doubt that he fully understood what goes on behind the counter. BUT I think the point of these stories is to raise awareness that people need to be their own advocate. They need to check their medication before taking it. I think a lot of people just assume that the people in the pharmacy got it right, and in most cases it would seem that would be true. But come on! Mistakes happen, how hard is it for people to just take a look at their bottle before using it? I read this story recently about a mother who's 8 year old son was supposed to receive one medication (can't remember which one) but instead received a steroid with a very similar name. In the article it showed two bottles side by side, everything on the bottles were the same except the medication name (in big font even) and amounts were different. I have kids and if that were me I'd have noticed something like that! She says she gave her son the medication for 3 weeks before noticing the labeling was different. I can understand someone not noticing a slight difference in color or size but the label was different! 😕

For me it's really helped to see things like this because maybe I'm naive but I didn't realize that errors were so common. And until I found SDN I didn't realize that pharmacists were so rushed and overworked. It's helpful to know. I'm never impatient when I go pick up scripts, if I get told it's going to be 15 minutes I just sit down and wait. Play a game on my phone or something. Now though I feel for the future I'll be even more patient with it.

 

[rxchrissarasota]

I just want to reiterate how rare serious errors are.

The story only points out a few examples over the course of a few years, but lets just say for arguments sake that there are 5,000 FATAL errors per year(the actual number is smaller although there doesn't seem to be any solid data on this, from 1970 to 2000 the average was 4300 per year). Last year our industry filled just under 3,500,000,000 perscriptions. That's 0.0001429%. So... stay inside, because that just happens to be the same odds as being struck by lightning according to the national weather service. (1/700,000)

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm

By contrast, the rate of fatal hospital errors is about 0.049%. Your over 3,000 times more likely to die from a hospital error than a pharmacy error.

 

[labrat024]

I love how thy tried to make sound like all pharmacy techs are in high school or have a GED.