What can I do summer M1/M2 year to help me match Neuro?

[MrChance2]

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I've been interested in Neuro since before medical school and the Neuro classes so far have been some of my favorites. I emailed a 10 or so neuroscience professors and neurology residents to see if I could get expereince with research this summer but pretty much everyone either didn't get back to me or said I don't have enough time to accomplish anything given the training I would need. Spending the summer laying by the pool sounds nice but I would at least like to augment that with something that will push me towards my goal and keep my mind busy. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Yoyomama88]

keep emailing places near and far, you will find a research institution that will take you.

 

[Thama]

Enjoy this summer. Research isn't necessary at all to match neuro, even at the big name places. If you do some project it should be because you are interested in it. You'll get to find out if three clinical side is for you in 3rd year.

 

[drzing]

I would just relax so you don't get burnt out. Med school is rough man.

 

[TUGM]

spend the summer laying by the pool, go to a music festival...

 

[typhoonegator]

My medical school had a summer program where they paired students with PhD faculty interested in hosting someone. It's a lot of work for the faculty (I know that now that I'm the one doing the hosting). If you haven't already, make sure that there isn't anything like that available. Three months is long enough to help out with an existing project or something -- I did some rodent work (including the guillotine) and wrote an abstract back in the day. It's certainly nice to have something to talk about at your residency interviews.

You definitely don't have to do anything. But after a rigorous academic year, the summer of research can be fun and low key. It doesn't have to be grueling.

 

[postbacpremed87]

Enjoy this summer. Research isn't necessary at all to match neuro, even at the big name places. If you do some project it should be because you are interested in it. You'll get to find out if three clinical side is for you in 3rd year.

Would you say this is because they are aware that some students do not have neuro rotations until the end of 3rd/beginning of 4th year (not given a chance to fully decide on the field until late) so they are more lenient when it comes to research?

 

[Thama]

Would you say this is because they are aware that some students do not have neuro rotations until the end of 3rd/beginning of 4th year (not given a chance to fully decide on the field until late) so they are more lenient when it comes to research?

No, its just because neuro residencies aren't in relative demand. The ratio of US MD applicants to spots is about 0.6. You can't be very picky about secondary considerations like research when you are battling the odds just to fill from schools you've heard of.

 

[postbacpremed87]

No, its just because neuro residencies aren't in relative demand. The ratio of US MD applicants to spots is about 0.6. You can't be very picky about secondary considerations like research when you are battling the odds just to fill from schools you've heard of.

So I absolutely do not need to do research? I just want to be a clinician.

Is this the recipe as a DO student?

Score 220+ on USMLE
Participate in Neuro organizations/volunteer
good personal statement
Do neuro sub-Is and get good LORs
Apply broadly

 

[Thama]

So I absolutely do not need to do research? I just want to be a clinician.

Is this the recipe as a DO student?

Score 220+ on USMLE
Participate in Neuro organizations/volunteer
good personal statement
Do neuro sub-Is and get good LORs
Apply broadly

I didn't apply as a DO and am not very familiar with that world, so I can't really advise you there.

 

[Hank Rearden]

This is the last summer off you are likely have the rest of your adult life. Why would you spend it in a lab? 3 months is exactly enough time to accomplish jack squat in research. I toured Europe and will never regret it. I was still able to land an academic job after going through a dedicated research fellowship post-residency.

 

[postbacpremed87]

This is the last summer off you are likely have the rest of your adult life. Why would you spend it in a lab? 3 months is exactly enough time to accomplish jack squat in research. I toured Europe and will never regret it. I was still able to land an academic job after going through a dedicated research fellowship post-residency.

So I am putting you in the do not do research if you do not want to or have other time commitments camp, correct? My wife and I are planning on having a baby soon and I am pretty sure I want my MS1 summer to go like this:

* Volunteer at a free-clinic helping out with H&Ps or something

and

* Spending time with my newborn son or daughter and relax (though the newborn part will make that challenging)

I want to be a general neurologist so hopefully this won't count against me.

 

[typhoonegator]

So I am putting you in the do not do research if you do not want to or have other time commitments camp, correct? My wife and I are planning on having a baby soon and I am pretty sure I want my MS1 summer to go like this:

* Volunteer at a free-clinic helping out with H&Ps or something

and

* Spending time with my newborn son or daughter and relax (though the newborn part will make that challenging)

I want to be a general neurologist so hopefully this won't count against me.

Skip the free clinic. Help your wife. Meet your kid. Nothing is more important than that. Who cares if it counts against you?

 

[postbacpremed87]

Skip the free clinic. Help your wife. Meet your kid. Nothing is more important than that. Who cares if it counts against you?

A few times a week won't hurt. Not matching into a residency wouldn't really help my kid either, but I do agree with you. I guess I will put all of my eggs in the do well enough on the USMLE Step 1 basket.

 

[typhoonegator]

I guess if things are going great and you have a ton of social support for the wife and baby, then "a few times a week won't hurt". But speaking from too much experience, a few times a week can hurt quite a bit when you have an infant.

 

[Dharma]

My first born was an infant during the summer between M1 and M2 and it was 100% worth it to spend that entire summer with my wife and kid, with my sole responsibility being giving them my time. It was great. Could I have padded my CV with some volunteering? Sure! But would the gain be worth the time taking away from that time? I don't think so, at least in terms of matching at good programs; the extra fluff doesn't hold all that much weight relatively speaking. I'm glad I recharged the batteries and gave us that summer together.

 

[postbacpremed87]

My first born was an infant during the summer between M1 and M2 and it was 100% worth it to spend that entire summer with my wife and kid, with my sole responsibility being giving them my time. It was great. Could I have padded my CV with some volunteering? Sure! But would the gain be worth the time taking away from that time? I don't think so, at least in terms of matching at good programs; the extra fluff doesn't hold all that much weight relatively speaking. I'm glad I recharged the batteries and gave us that summer together.

I want to do this. Believe me. Is a good USMLE Step 1 without research and a lot of volunteerism sufficient to match into a Neuro program if you apply broadly?

 

[Dharma]

I want to do this. Believe me. Is a good USMLE Step 1 without research and a lot of volunteerism sufficient to match into a Neuro program if you apply broadly?

I'm gonna have to defer to those more in the know, but as far as I've heard, research is not a major factor. Probably is if you're looking to get into a research -heavy program, but otherwise, I don't think it's much of a game changer. Do the research if that's where your interests lie but that should be the main motivator. But again, others will know more about this than me.

 

[Thama]

Also consider that the amount of productive research you will realistically get done over the course of a summer is essentially nil, unless you're already established in the lab with experience in that field. If you're shooting for a big name research institution then a year off might be worthwhile. If that kind of thing doesn't matter to you then having publications probably won't be a big deal anyway.

 

[postbacpremed87]

Also consider that the amount of productive research you will realistically get done over the course of a summer is essentially nil, unless you're already established in the lab with experience in that field. If you're shooting for a big name research institution then a year off might be worthwhile. If that kind of thing doesn't matter to you then having publications probably won't be a big deal anyway.

I just want to be a run of the mill general neurologist/neurohospitalist practicing in a city of 100k-200k in the Midwest or South.

 

[Thama]

I just want to be a run of the mill general neurologist/neurohospitalist practicing in a city of 100k-200k in the Midwest or South.

Then I don't think you need to be worrying much about serious research, really. Not unless there is a project you are really excited about. Get involved in service, free clinic, the SIGN chapter at your school, etc during your free time. Otherwise a baby is more than enough responsibility and I guarantee that interviewers will look on you more favorably for managing to be a good parent during med school than anything else you could do.

 

[postbacpremed87]

Then I don't think you need to be worrying much about serious research, really. Not unless there is a project you are really excited about. Get involved in service, free clinic, the SIGN chapter at your school, etc during your free time. Otherwise a baby is more than enough responsibility and I guarantee that interviewers will look on you more favorably for managing to be a good parent during med school than anything else you could do.

Thanks. I happened to look at Charting Outcomes and found a concerning statistic. It said roughly 60% of independent applicants match with a 230 USMLE score. I am a DO student so I fall in the independent category. Is this reflective of the heavy presence of FMG/IMGs in the field? Would a DO at 230 who applies to 20+ programs have a greater than 60% chance at matching.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Thanks. I happened to look at Charting Outcomes and found a concerning statistic. It said roughly 60% of independent applicants match with a 230 USMLE score. I am a DO student so I fall in the independent category. Is this reflective of the heavy presence of FMG/IMGs in the field? Would a DO at 230 who applies to 20+ programs have a greater than 60% chance at matching.

From what I understand, the report consists of data collected from foreign medical grads, IMGs and FMGs. Osteopathic, previous allopathic, and Canadian grads are not considered.

 

[Thama]

DOs are generally in a better position than IMGs etc. There are also DO-only neuro residencies you could consider.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Thanks. I happened to look at Charting Outcomes and found a concerning statistic. It said roughly 60% of independent applicants match with a 230 USMLE score. I am a DO student so I fall in the independent category. Is this reflective of the heavy presence of FMG/IMGs in the field? Would a DO at 230 who applies to 20+ programs have a greater than 60% chance at matching.

Besides, the mean USMLE score for US-IMGs is only 216. 230 was the mean for non-US IMGs.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...s-in-the-Match-IMG_Final_Revised.PDF-File.pdf

 

[postbacpremed87]

Besides, the mean USMLE score for US-IMGs is only 216. 230 was the mean for non-US IMGs.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-IMG_Final_Revised.PDF-File.pdf

I think I was looking at a different chart.

 

[postbacpremed87]

From what I understand, the report consists of data collected from foreign medical grads, IMGs and FMGs. Osteopathic, previous allopathic, and Canadian grads are not considered.

The one I was looking at said DO USMLE Step 1 scores are unknown in the independent applicant section. It did however show how many matched and it was like a 52 match to 15 unmatch ratio. I am assuming all of those are DOs. Plus this was 2011 data. Given all that, it appears that if you rank 15+ programs and score at the Neuro Step 1 average as a DO that you will match.